"N8KDV" wrote...


Sanjaya wrote:

"Diverd4777" wrote...
Hi Sanjaya:

- It would be interesting if you could do a " Head To Head" comparison
of these two radios ( Degen 1101 and 1102 )
on the same faint station;
- Such as 12.095 ( BBC from Ascension Island)
which is ( for me) a difficult catch

I suppose off the whip and then with an external antenna
to make it more interesting;

& BYW , thanks for all these posts.

Dan

Yes, southeast USA. I am situated pretty well for getting
lots of broadcasts here.

And you're welcome.
I know others will have different opinions of the 1102.
And of course the big rigs with wires can get all kinds
of stuff I'll never hear. Everything we post is subjective
I guess. But I can only go with what I know and like.
For the $68.50 I spent on this radio I think it's a great
value.

"Tom Welch" wrote..
Sanjaya:

How is this radio on FM? And have you
encountered any of the bugs others have
reported?

How long does this radio go on a charge
of batteries?

Finally, do you think a program listener
would be better off buying the 1101
instead or is the 1102 a better performer?

Tom Welch

Hi Tom.
FM reception is good, There is a bass boost for headphone
listening, and stereo through the headphones too. MW is good
also, by the standard I use... WOAI 1200 kHz in San Antonio, Texas.
It's about 960 miles from me and everytime I get a new radio
I try that on MW.
I haven't encountered any bugs. Unless you count
having to read the manual to learn how certain
features work : )
The speaker sounds very good for a small radio, but I don't use
it for music other than the music I hear on shortwave.
There is a "news/music" switch to change the tone.
I'm testing the batteries now. First charge of the included NiMH batteries...
only about 8 hours of use so far, so I don't know how long they'll last
yet. However, they can be charged right in the radio, which to me is
a big plus. I'll post again if you want and let you know about
battery life.
Reading the radiointel reviews of the 1102 and 1101 I see
that the 1101 leaves a bit to be desired in the area of selectivity.
The 1102 is dual conversion and has good selectivity. Also, according
to the review the 1101 is only 9 kHz steps on MW. My DE1102 can
be set for 9 or 10 kHz steps on MW. I don't know if current models
of the radios are the same as the ones reviewed.
http://www.radiointel.com/reviews.htm
My answer to your question, not having tested an 1101, is that the
DE1102 is a better performer.
The only thing I'd change on the 1102 is that the "on" button
doesn't turn the radio on permanently. Default is a 99 minute
timer. But you can turn that off and have the radio on permanently by
holding down the "exit" button for 2 seconds, then in sequence pressing the
"enter" button and the "exit" button again. I have forgotten to
do that a couple of times and the radio shut off after 99 minutes.
The page system is ok, but SSB is only available in page 9. So
that could be a drawback for some. I don't like having to refer
to the manual. I've had to get it out a couple of times to remind
myself how stuff works. I can live with that though because of
the quality of the radio versus the cost.
$70 *delivered* for a dual conversion, PLL synthesized SSB
capable shortwave radio!!! Right now I'd
say it's the best value in a shortwave radio I've ever seen.

Dan: Check Michaels posting of a month or two back. He has both
radios and found that the 1101 was more selective on SW. The
RadioIntel review mentioned problems with a MW local 5kw station
bleeding over. Russ made no mention of selectivity problems on SW.
The program listener would probably get along fine on the 1101
although, personally, I like the ability to be able to off tune a KHz
or two as necessary. The 1101 tunes in 5 KHz steps only.
Regards
Bob










Sanjaya" wrote in message hlink.net...
"Tom Welch" wrote..
Sanjaya:

How is this radio on FM? And have you
encountered any of the bugs others have
reported?

How long does this radio go on a charge
of batteries?

Finally, do you think a program listener
would be better off buying the 1101
instead or is the 1102 a better performer?

Tom Welch

Hi Tom.
FM reception is good, There is a bass boost for headphone
listening, and stereo through the headphones too. MW is good
also, by the standard I use... WOAI 1200 kHz in San Antonio, Texas.
It's about 960 miles from me and everytime I get a new radio
I try that on MW.
I haven't encountered any bugs. Unless you count
having to read the manual to learn how certain
features work : )
The speaker sounds very good for a small radio, but I don't use
it for music other than the music I hear on shortwave.
There is a "news/music" switch to change the tone.
I'm testing the batteries now. First charge of the included NiMH batteries...
only about 8 hours of use so far, so I don't know how long they'll last
yet. However, they can be charged right in the radio, which to me is
a big plus. I'll post again if you want and let you know about
battery life.
Reading the radiointel reviews of the 1102 and 1101 I see
that the 1101 leaves a bit to be desired in the area of selectivity.
The 1102 is dual conversion and has good selectivity. Also, according
to the review the 1101 is only 9 kHz steps on MW. My DE1102 can
be set for 9 or 10 kHz steps on MW. I don't know if current models
of the radios are the same as the ones reviewed.
http://www.radiointel.com/reviews.htm
My answer to your question, not having tested an 1101, is that the
DE1102 is a better performer.
The only thing I'd change on the 1102 is that the "on" button
doesn't turn the radio on permanently. Default is a 99 minute
timer. But you can turn that off and have the radio on permanently by
holding down the "exit" button for 2 seconds, then in sequence pressing the
"enter" button and the "exit" button again. I have forgotten to
do that a couple of times and the radio shut off after 99 minutes.
The page system is ok, but SSB is only available in page 9. So
that could be a drawback for some. I don't like having to refer
to the manual. I've had to get it out a couple of times to remind
myself how stuff works. I can live with that though because of
the quality of the radio versus the cost.
$70 *delivered* for a dual conversion, PLL synthesized SSB
capable shortwave radio!!! Right now I'd
say it's the best value in a shortwave radio I've ever seen.

Sanjaya:

I ordered the Kaito 1102 from Grove
Enterprises this morning and should
have the radio by Monday afternoon.

I really like the pictures I have
seen of this radio...the backlighting
and such.

I am hoping this is a step up from
the Sangean ATS 606 I now have. BTW,
I ordered a black radio, not a silver
one.

Let us know of your experiences with
your 1102.

Does the longwire make a difference?

Tom Welch

"Tom Welch" wrote...
Sanjaya:

I ordered the Kaito 1102 from Grove
Enterprises this morning and should
have the radio by Monday afternoon.

I really like the pictures I have
seen of this radio...the backlighting
and such.

I am hoping this is a step up from
the Sangean ATS 606 I now have. BTW,
I ordered a black radio, not a silver
one.

Let us know of your experiences with
your 1102.

Does the longwire make a difference?

Tom Welch

Hi Tom.

The wire that comes with the DE1102 is only about 12 feet.
Get a Sangean Ant-60, I think universal-radio.com has them for
$13 US. It's 23 feet, and can be clipped to a window frame.
That's all I use other than the whip on each radio. It makes a difference
with weaker stations for me.

The ATS-606 is a good radio. I love mine (aka RS DX-399)

You'll like having the SSB function of
the 1102 available. And the size is comparable, making it excellent
for travel. I'm thinking of boxing up some of the other radios lying
around here. The 1102 is really excellent in my opinion. But it is
a bit more complicated to use than other portables. So read the
manual. After following the procedures it outlines for charging
the batteries, turning off the 99 minute default sleep timer and
a few other things a couple of times you'll forget about the learning
curve. When I compare the price of the Sangean to the Degen/Kaito
and what you get for the money (including 3 rechargeable batteries
that charge in the radio, SSB, 190 presets etc.) I'd recommend the
1102 hands down.

Sanjaya:

I actually have the DX-399, but I wanted
another radio to play with and the 1102
running off rechargeable batteries seemed
like the right radio for me.

I hope I get a good one!!!

Tom Welch

This is interesting, now. Nobody is seriously developing a really good
shortwave portable radio that will satisfy high standards both for program
listeners and DX-ers. Instead, one or three Chinese companies are busily
cranking out millions of units of the same three or four models, each under
half a dozen brand names with similar model designations, and selling them
at prices who's relationship to production cost is more logarythmic than
mere doubling or multiples of three or four.

I am using old computer gear here, doing email on an old DOSosaurus era
setup, so going on EBay is sort of out of the question for this little
workstation. However, with a little help from a friend, I did check EBay
for some shortwave radios.

Under Tecsun BCL-2000, we found one seller in Shanghai, China, who was
selling the black model BCL-2000 for $42 dollars, "Buy it Now". Shipping to

the United States was listed at $38 and you could pay through PayPal.

There's a seller in Michigan, near the Detroit area, who offers the red
TecSun BCL-2000 for $69.99 as the "Buy it Now" price. Shipping in the
United States and Canada is $14.99, and he ships only to the US and Canada.
He says it is the "newer, improved model, made after April, 2003." It is
also said to be the same as the Grundig S-350 with the same frequency
coverage, including the expanded medium-wave spectrum, and comes with the
same accessories as the S-350. Also included is the 240-V to 120-V
step-down converter. The description from the seller in Shanghai mentioned
nothing about the inclusion of a step-down converter.

So, we have a seller in the country of origin who can buy this radio and
sell it at enough of a proffit to consider the effort worthwhile and charge
$42 dollars per unit and you pay shipping.

The seller in Michigan, who usually says he has nine, or maybe six, units
available sells it at a "buy it now" price for one cent less than $70
dollars and you pay shipping.

Radio dealers who sell the rebadged Grundig iteration of this radio claim it

to sell at full retail for $149.99 and your price today is $99.99, plus
something for shipping.

All these little coat-pocket- and shirt-pocket-sized things that are selling

for as little as $10 plus shipping in the USA must cost almost nothing to
make, maybe something like two or three dollars.
In the meantime, Every single shortwave-capable radio sold on the market now

has thin, unbalanced and weak audio quality. The big, expensive "Grundig
Satellit" 800 really doesn't sound any better than the S-350/BCL-2000, and
can actually be more tiring to listen to for a long period of time through
its own speaker.

I thought the shipping for a BCL-2000 from Michigan was rather high, but I
bought from him anyway, figuring I would get it faster from Michigan than
from China, and I knew the step-down voltage converter would be included,
something that was omitted from the description posted by the Chinese
seller.

The PayPal transaction was completed on a Saturday night, so he couldn't
have shipped it out before last Monday. I received it via UPS early on
Wednesday afternoon last week, shipping from the Detroit, Michigan area to
me in the Atlanta, Georgia area. Had he shipped it by UPS ground, I might
be getting it today, the following Monday, and my shipping cost might have
been closer to six or seven dollars instead of one cent shy of fifteen
dollars.

I've been rather busy, so I have not had the time yet to take out both the
S-350 and the BCL-2000 and compare them side by side. The only immediately
apparent physical differences seem to be the color, the logo on the front,
and the presence of a power supply inside the BCL-2000 that makes it a
little bit heavier. The Tecsun has a rubber plug to cover the RCA external
speaker jacks when they are not being used; the Grundig S-350 does not. If
the BCL-2000 is facing with the front panel facing you, there is an AC power

jack in the top left corner of the back of the radio. It accepts the exact
same type of plug as some of the older European portables of the late
1980's, such as the Grundig Satellit 400, or the Philips D-2999. The power
cord supplied with the BCL-2000 is a standard North American-style
non-polarized plug, and you then plug that into the stepdown converter,
giving you, Yuckie!, a wall wart. On the S-350, the cut-out for the power
plug and the vented area just under it is covered over by a glued-on thin
piece of what feels like thin flexible plastic, or plastic-coated cardboard.
Behind it, and I peeled back one corner, is that hole where the power plug
should be and a sizeable empty space where the BCL-2000 has its power
supply. There didn't appear to be any screw holes in the S-350's cabinet
where that plug would have been held in place, although it could probably
just be snapped in place. The extra power supply makes the BCL-2000 feel
slightly heavier than the S-350.

Except for the logo, the placement and shapes of all
the knobs and switches appear to be the same on both radios.

I guess I'll just have to take them both out and see if the BCL-2000 really
is any better than the S-350. THe jack, which must be for the 12-volt power

source, like a lighter adapter plug for use in a car, is also present on the

BCL-2000 as it is in the S-350, and it is in the same place on both radios.

I remember reading that the BCL-2000 has a true on/off switch instead of the
nondefeatable 90-minute sleep timer. That does not appear to be the case
with this one I bought. The power switch looks exactly the same on both
radios.
MOre later, after I have a chance to put both units through the test from
hell in the reception location from Hell.

Later:
It is a bit over a day later, and I spent about five hours between 11:00 PM
North American Eastern Standard Time and 4:00 AM in the morning playing with
both radios. I ran each on batteries, with both radios having batteries
taken from the same 8-pack of D-cells.

In addition to the features I've already mentioned, I noticed that the soft
vinyl wrap for the folds of the shoulder strap which makes a carry handle,
is about two inches longer on my BCL-2000 than on the S-350, so it's
"handle" is longer, but thinner than the Grundig's. All jacks, except for
that already mentioned AC power plug on the BCL-2000, and all buttons,
knobs, and switches are exactly the same on both radios.

The EBay seller says that the BCL-2000 is the same as the Grundig S-350 and
claims that frequency coverage is the same. He specifically lists medium
wave coverage as being from 530-1700 KHz. This is NOT! so. The S-350's
dial goes past 1700 quite a bit, and I listened a few minutes to, "Real
Oldies," on 1690 KHz from Chicago. There was a faint signal on 1700 KHz
that I did not try to hear long enough to ID. On the BCL-2000, the last
clear station at the top of the MW dial was a "sports news" station on 1640
and the dial went on up just a tiny bit above that. It might be able to
hear a station broadcasting on 1650 KHz, and that just barely with it coming
in at the very top of the dial's tuning range. Both radios seemed to tune
down to the same low frequency on the MW band. FM and SW coverage were
exactly the same on both radios.

My S-350 was bought used from a fellow who bought it new from a Ham Radio
Outlet some time last summer, so I think it is most likely one of what the
BCL-2000 seller calls the "new and improved model made after April, 2003",
(or was it February, 2003 he claimed?)

The difference in performance between these two samples was noticeable in
some respects, but so slight as to fall within the realm of quibbling or
knit-picking. The antenna hinge screw was a little tighter on the newer
BCL-2000. The whips were the same size, with the same number of segments on
both radios.

Note that my comparison is only among these two samples and in my location.
Both radios appear to be equally well built and well finished. Except for
the mistake in MW frequency coverage claimed for the Tecsun, everything on
both radios is as advertised.

The S-350 seems to have a very slightly stronger amplifier, putting out a
higher volume at maximum power on batteries than the BCL-2000, but that
would not sway me in favor of one radio over the other if that were the only
difference between them.

Both radios heard the same FM stations with the same clarity and selectivity
under the same listening conditions with the antennas used the same way on
both radios. Between 530 and 1640 KHz, both radios received the same
signals with the same strength, clarity, and separation among signals. The
wide and narrow bandwidth filters, the tone controls, and the gain control
worked exactly the same on both radios.

The biggest difference in reception performance with these two radios came
in the lower of the two shortwave bands, beginning around 2300 KHz. The
Tecsun was a little quieter in the interstation areas than the S-350. The
Grundig was slightly bothered by some stray external RF interference, and
played a very low level of a sound similar to the buzz that might come from
fluorescent lights with bad ballasts. I have no fluorescent lights in this
apartment. It was late enough that most of my immediate neighbors would
have long sense packed it in for the night. Since I am totally blind and
don't need to look at the dials, I had no lights on in the apartment. Other
items turned on included the stereo amplifier in the next room, the heater
fan, the exhaust fan on low over the kitchen range, a desk-top computer, a
laptop computer, all in the next room, and the fridge in the kitchen. The
cable TV box was turned off, but it was plugged in. Radio testing was
conducted on my bed, about 7 feet from the north-facing window. It might be
noted that, the Grundig Satellit 210/6001, which was plugged in to AC power
via a power bar sold for plugging in computer gear, exhibited more noise
interference in the frequency spectrum from 1610-4,000 KHz than did the
S-350 running on batteries. The Sat 210 also had some serious noise
interference at the very bottom of the MW band.

I like the Tecsun's extra power plug feature and the fact that it is
slightly quieter at the bottom part of the lowest shortwave band.

I do like the idea that the amplifier of the S-350 seems to be slightly
stronger with stronger audio output on batteries, and I do like the extended
mediumwave coverage. There actually is something to hear up there, at least
at night in this location.

I guess I could just about say that the two radios draw about even in a
head-to-head comparison. I'll probably keep both, unless somebody wants to
offer me something I might not be able to refuse for one of them. For
somebody in the USA and Canada interested in serious medium wave (AM
broadcast) listening, the nod has to go to the Grundig S-350, both for full
broadcast band coverage and for a slightly stronger sounding amplifier which
will cause you to perceive tht it may have slightly better bass frequency
response than the Tecsun BCL-2000.

If it's shortwave you're after mostly, and you live in range of tropical
band signals, the slight nod has to go to the slightly quieter BCL-2000.


Reply to:
Brent Reynolds, Atlanta, GA USA

wrote:

This is interesting, now. Nobody is seriously developing a really good
shortwave portable radio that will satisfy high standards both for program
listeners and DX-ers. Instead, one or three Chinese companies are busily
cranking out millions of units of the same three or four models, each under
half a dozen brand names with similar model designations, and selling them
at prices who's relationship to production cost is more logarythmic than
mere doubling or multiples of three or four.

I guess you haven't heard about the new Eton-900 or whatever the name
will be in the US. It should be available sometime this year. It offers
the hope of being the best portable since the Sony-2010. It won't be
cheap though.


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http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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In article . net,
Sanjaya wrote:
Still testing this radio.The page system with SSB
only on page 9 leaves a little to be desired, but it has great
speaker sound, it's sensitive and selective... dual conversion.
Noticeable, but not terrible, hum when using the a/c adaptor and
included 220/110 converter.

It's plugged into the wall outlet, so I'll see if an RFI/EMI shielded
surge suppressor helps. Setup of 10k steps for MW and 24 hour clock
is done by taking out the batteries and reinserting them after the display goes
blank. Then pressing buttons in sequence.
Takes a little practice, but worked for me by following the instructions
in the English manual.

It looks very cool with the whole keypad lighted up in the dark.
The radiointel review is located here
http://www.radiointel.com/review-degende1102.htm
The quality is very good. Nice looking, solid.
Small, but well built, and has SSB.

I would like to publically thank eBay seller Liypn for his great service
and product. I can't vouch for other radios, but the DE1102
is an excellent value.

The radio arrived from China 7 days after I got his notification
of having sent it. Liypn's eBay store is at
http://www.stores.ebay.com/id=68650377&ssPageName=L2
He has more Degen 1102s and some Tecsun PL-230s.
Shipping is $19 US, but the radio's cost offsets that, and
again... it arrived in seven days. It included a free
power converter also. I will purchase from him again.

Anyone who likes to play with new stuff and can afford the
~$69 (incl. shipping) should check out the DE1102 from Liypn.


Echo your comments about this little jewel, and eBay seller Lipyn.

The radio arrived from Hong Kong 8 days after his stated ship date, and in
perfect shape. I was a little confused by his statement that an "english
manual is available", but in fact this model was _designed_ for export.
The manual is Chinese/English depending on which end you start reading
from.

I am constantly comparing this to the Sangean ATS-606 (RS DX-399) as the
two radios are virtually identical in size, and both use three AA
batteries. It is amazing, though, in the years between the design of this
older radio and the newer Degen, how much technology has been packed into
a box of the same size, and for less than half the price.

I am reminded of my first sessions with the Icom IC-R70, which is the only
radio I've used that rivals this one for its convoluted, non-intuitive
user interface. The design is a marvel of stacking multiple functions on
the same keys. I really need to make a quick-reference card, especially to
have a handy list of the default step sizes on the different memory pages.

All in all, it's money well spent. This is the best value in a portable
I've seen on a _long_ time.

"Mike S." wrote...
[snip]
All in all, it's money well spent. This is the best value in a portable
I've seen on a _long_ time.



That really says it all.
I boxed up my YB400 and
use the 1102 now. Plug it in
every so often and recharge the
batteries while I sleep.