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US Torturers to not be Punished
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"Michael Bryant" wrote in message ... From: "T. Early" Would any women or children at all be in danger if there were no "insurgents"? Maybe you should ask the estimated 10,000 civilians that were killed by the US in our initial invasion. Well, regardless of the accuracy of your number, that's a seperate issue isn't it? I'm questioning your previous attempt to blame further civilian casualties on our forces, while apparently absolving the "insurgents" who are responsible for prolonging the conflict. I'm afraid that changing the issue doesn't rehabilitate your earlier comment. |
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"Michael Bryant" wrote in It seems that they are killing many more innocent women and children than insurgents. Michael your not the same type of prick that called our boys baby killers when they came home from Vietnam are you? I hope your not going there? -- 73 Brian ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A lot of radios and 100' of rusty wire! Brian's Radio Universe http://webpages.charter.net/brianehill/ |
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Michael 'I lied about a PhD' Bryant wrote: From: helmsman Put a sock in it tard! If you won't back this country, get out! Let's see you try to force me out, sockpuppet. America's for real partiots, not you neo-con armchair warriors. What is a 'real partiot' Fat Boy? Take a hike, yerself! You should be hiking Fat Boy! |
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"Michael Bryant" wrote in Let's see you try to force me out, sockpuppet. America's for real partiots, not you neo-con armchair warriors. Take a hike, yerself! Well at least we back our troops so you can sit here and make an ass of yourself. -- 73 Brian ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A lot of radios and 100' of rusty wire! Brian's Radio Universe http://webpages.charter.net/brianehill/ |
"N8KDV" wrote in message While you're looking for that cliche Fat Boy you might want to try and find a clue too. No ****! What a wing nut! |
"N8KDV" wrote in message I think the sentence above needs a 'you', Bryant. What a retard! LOL He's all hyped up Steve. Its a liberal disorder. LOL |
N8KDV schrieb: LOL Nice to see you fashistoid dumbass loughing about yourself, just not realizing it. Take bath and beware of the whales. |
"-=jd=-" wrote in message ... On Sat 01 May 2004 02:18:24p, ocom (Michael Bryant) wrote in message : Since the Army has decided that the US abusers were unaware that they were violating the Geneva Convention, torturers are simply being reassigned. It does raise some serious questions. Presuming those were MP's inflicting the abuse, they knew better. They were instructed in POW processing, detention and treatment in their MOS training. They should have been immediately relieved of duty and arrested in accordance with the UCMJ. If they were not MP's, and it turns out any soldier that could fog a mirror was given that duty without any further training, then I *still* think they should have known better. Common sense dictates. This reeks of command staff that rarely, if ever, set foot within the lock-up area and contented themselves to shine a chair with their ass in an air-conditioned office detached from day-to-day operations. That remains to be seen, but it is what I suspect. All of them, from the immediate command-staff (for incompetence) to the f'-ups committing the abuses in the cell block - all are in dire need of being made an example of. Hopefully, they will be and we should demand that they are made an example of. This is an openly acknowledged abberation that should not be claimed as an indictment on American soldiers or American society as a whole. Anyone who thinks it does should also indict the whole of Islamic society solely based on the actions of Islamic terrorists; however, there's no accounting for simpletons... They are not 'simply being reassigned'. At least not yet. The article states that they still face courts martial for an array of charges, any one of which could bring a long prison term, and all of which would result in loss of rank, forfeiture of pay and allowances, and dishonorable discharge..... |
"helmsman" wrote in message ... "Brenda Ann Dyer" wrote: They are not 'simply being reassigned'. At least not yet. The article states that they still face courts martial for an array of charges, any one of which could bring a long prison term, and all of which would result in loss of rank, forfeiture of pay and allowances, and dishonorable discharge..... These prisoners are no doubt the killers of American troops, they should all be killed. At most our people should be reassigned. Sorry, that's not the way it works. We are required to observe the Geneva Prisoner of War Conventions.. no matter how you, or I, feel about it, we are not above the law. |
Michael Bryant wrote:
From: helmsman Good, now it's time for them to get back to killing the enemy! It seems that they are killing many more innocent women and children than insurgents. Maybe you and your buddy Kerry should get up a protest to the war. Maybe he could loan you some of his medals to throw over the White House fence. |
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Brenda Ann Dyer wrote:
"Brian Hill" wrote in message ... "Brenda Ann Dyer" wrote in Sorry, that's not the way it works. We are required to observe the Geneva Prisoner of War Conventions.. no matter how you, or I, feel about it, we are not above the law. True we are not above the law. And another truth is we are human and in war these things will always happen. Catch 22. I have no argument with your point. I was commenting on helmsman's assertion that the POW's should be killed. Anyone who makes such a statement must also realize that our soldiers can also be POWs. |
"helmsman" wrote in message ... "Brenda Ann Dyer" wrote: These prisoners are no doubt the killers of American troops, they should all be killed. At most our people should be reassigned. Is it clear what these prisoners are being held for? If these prisoners are prisoners of war with important information, should they be grilled by poorly trained guards? I'm sure we're holding a large number of common criminals. The man the Brits are accused of abusing was described as a suspected thief. How is the treatment of this suspected thief better than the treatment he would have received from Saddam's goons? Frank Dresser |
"Brenda Ann Dyer" wrote in Sorry, that's not the way it works. We are required to observe the Geneva Prisoner of War Conventions.. no matter how you, or I, feel about it, we are not above the law. True we are not above the law. And another truth is we are human and in war these things will always happen. Catch 22. |
"Brian Hill" wrote in message ... "Brenda Ann Dyer" wrote in Sorry, that's not the way it works. We are required to observe the Geneva Prisoner of War Conventions.. no matter how you, or I, feel about it, we are not above the law. True we are not above the law. And another truth is we are human and in war these things will always happen. Catch 22. I have no argument with your point. I was commenting on helmsman's assertion that the POW's should be killed. |
"Brenda Ann Dyer" wrote in I have no argument with your point. I was commenting on helmsman's assertion that the POW's should be killed. I would like to know more facts. Was it revenge for the slaying of the four men a couple weeks ago? We may never really know but I will say this. This type of thing is usually done to extract information or for revenge. |
"JJ" wrote in message ... Brenda Ann Dyer wrote: "Brian Hill" wrote in message ... "Brenda Ann Dyer" wrote in Sorry, that's not the way it works. We are required to observe the Geneva Prisoner of War Conventions.. no matter how you, or I, feel about it, we are not above the law. True we are not above the law. And another truth is we are human and in war these things will always happen. Catch 22. I have no argument with your point. I was commenting on helmsman's assertion that the POW's should be killed. Anyone who makes such a statement must also realize that our soldiers can also be POWs. Very true.. but we in the US tend to be known for maintaining a high double standard. I imagine the same is true in other places as well.. but I can only speak for my experience as an American with other Americans. |
Al Arduengo wrote: This is bull****. All soldiers (Marines, Army, Navy, Air Force, CG) are taught proper handling of POWs. They are not actually ignorant unless they weren't paying attention in boot camp. Sorry Charlie... when I went to boot camp I was never ever taught anything about POW's... Nice try! |
N8KDV wrote:
Al Arduengo wrote: This is bull****. All soldiers (Marines, Army, Navy, Air Force, CG) are taught proper handling of POWs. They are not actually ignorant unless they weren't paying attention in boot camp. Sorry Charlie... when I went to boot camp I was never ever taught anything about POW's... Nice try! You were ripped off or your DIs didn't do their job then. The handling of POWs and Geneva Convention guidelines are fundamental concepts, at least when I was in. Thanks |
On Sun, 02 May 2004 03:37:40 GMT, Al Arduengo wrote:
N8KDV wrote: Al Arduengo wrote: This is bull****. All soldiers (Marines, Army, Navy, Air Force, CG) are taught proper handling of POWs. They are not actually ignorant unless they weren't paying attention in boot camp. Sorry Charlie... when I went to boot camp I was never ever taught anything about POW's... Nice try! You were ripped off or your DIs didn't do their job then. The handling of POWs and Geneva Convention guidelines are fundamental concepts, at least when I was in. Thanks I guess I missed that class too. I'm gonna ask for my money back because I sure don't remember it. I do have a solution for the POW problem though.....don't take any! Tracy |
"Brian Hill" wrote in message ... I would like to know more facts. Was it revenge for the slaying of the four men a couple weeks ago? We may never really know but I will say this. This type of thing is usually done to extract information or for revenge. Don't forget ambition. We had a group of high ranking detectives here who had an amazing record for obtaining confessions in tough cases. And when accusations were made that the detectives were torturing confessions out of suspects, it was tough to believe because the accusers were convicted criminals trying to get themselves off the hook by pointing the finger at highly decorated police officers. Some of those confessions resulted in the accused criminals ending up on death row. Fortunately, real evidence, not confessions forced by ambitious brutal cops acting on their gut feelings, was discovered with resulted in several exoneration's. These guys weren't released on legal technicalities, they were released because such evidence as DNA testing proved them innocent. In at least one case, the DNA evidence proved someone else guilty. Not only were the lives of the accused criminals damaged, but the system was damaged, as well. In Illinois, the death penalty hasn't been enforced in the last few years, and it won't be enforced any time soon. Public confidence in confessions has been damaged. But all those confessions were sure good for the ol' career, at least for a while. Frank Dresser |
"Tracy Fort" wrote in message I do have a solution for the POW problem though.....don't take any! Tracy I'm with you on that one! 73Brian |
"-=jd=-" wrote in message Oh, I don't presume that the US, or any other country's military, will only consist of the most moral and ethical of it's citizens. But I do expect that when recognized, the bad-apples are dealt with swiftly and appropriately. Neither the US, nor any other society on the face of the planet can guarantee perfection, but we can guarantee that we will uphold our common good, principles, morals and ethics where it is within the scope of our control and influence. This is what differentiates the U.S. from the likes of Saddam. I can see where you are coming from, but it is my view that once captured and under out control, the terrorists become our responsibility (like it or not) and we need to live up to that responsibility to the best of our ability. Faced with a similar situation, I would hope and trust that the vast majority of Americans could rise *well* above the type of behvaior depicted in those photos and not drag the rest of us down by succumbing to base human weaknesses. I'm not asking for any guarantee of perfection, but I would expect striving for it to the best of our ability, even if we ultimately fall short of perfection. I think we're on the same side of the coin and looking from different angles. I think we're trying to do the right thing. Its just so damn hard and complicated. Too many people and too many damn problems. The worlds getting smaller and smaller and cultures are colliding like atoms. Its bound to be a rough ride. -- 73 Brian ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A lot of radios and 100' of rusty wire! Brian's Radio Universe http://webpages.charter.net/brianehill/ |
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Michael 'I lied about having a PhD' Bryant wrote: From: helmsman I'm thinking they would kill our people if given the chance. We should have taken NO prisoners in the first place and exterminated there military when we had the chance. Yes, one would expect you to advocate extermination. Won't the archives show that you used to preach that very same advocacy against minorities here in the US? Has the war simply given you some other place to focus your desire for extermination of some category of humans? Won't the archives show that you've lied about a PhD and many other things Fat Boy? |
"Michael Bryant" wrote in message ... From: helmsman Good, now it's time for them to get back to killing the enemy! It seems that they are killing many more innocent women and children than insurgents. Michael Bryant, WA4009SWL What a load of crap. Facts, Michael -- show me FACTS! This isn't some "debating society" game, where the outcome doesn't matter. This is serious. It is truly unfortunate that SOME have been killed, but it is a FACT that the many insurgents are using them as "cover." If you're in a house that has an RPG get launched by an insurgent out of one of its windows toward our troops, you can expect a big load of whoopass coming back your way. Additionally, these are not stupid people -- they're playing the P.R. game with the willful help of Arab news services, etc., spouting any number of untruths about both insurgent and civilian deaths, with the clear intent of getting gullible people like you to believe them. With the insurgents in charge of those hospitals, who in the hell do you think is telling these spokesmen what to say? For once, go against your typical knee-jerk response that your own country is always wrong. It amazes me how you always take the position against our troops and our country's best interest, unerringly and completely, and build your case with either no facts or totally bogus information. You're turning into "Baghdad Mike." But that's okay -- I hear there's an opening. -- Stinger |
"Frank Dresser" wrote in message It's not clear to me just who these prisioners were. I'm assuming they were POWs, but I don't know they weren't accused criminals or accused terrorists. It's also unclear why these prisoners were being abused. We don't know if it was for revenge, or to get information. We don't know if the abuse was a cheap way to further a career. I finally saw more pics of this stuff. I had only seen the guy on a box tied to wires before. The rest of the pics look like hazing. Humiliating the prisoners for kicks. Nothing deadly or torturous? Defiantly adolescent behavior. I need more info to determine if this was torture? -- 73 Brian ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A lot of radios and 100' of rusty wire! Brian's Radio Universe http://webpages.charter.net/brianehill/ |
Stinger wrote: "Michael Bryant" wrote in message ... From: helmsman Good, now it's time for them to get back to killing the enemy! It seems that they are killing many more innocent women and children than insurgents. Michael Bryant, WA4009SWL What a load of crap. Facts, Michael -- show me FACTS! This isn't some "debating society" game, where the outcome doesn't matter. This is serious. It is truly unfortunate that SOME have been killed, but it is a FACT that the many insurgents are using them as "cover." If you're in a house that has an RPG get launched by an insurgent out of one of its windows toward our troops, you can expect a big load of whoopass coming back your way. Additionally, these are not stupid people -- they're playing the P.R. game with the willful help of Arab news services, etc., spouting any number of untruths about both insurgent and civilian deaths, with the clear intent of getting gullible people like you to believe them. With the insurgents in charge of those hospitals, who in the hell do you think is telling these spokesmen what to say? For once, go against your typical knee-jerk response that your own country is always wrong. It amazes me how you always take the position against our troops and our country's best interest, unerringly and completely, and build your case with either no facts or totally bogus information. You're turning into "Baghdad Mike." But that's okay -- I hear there's an opening. Why does he do it? Because he's an academic, and they are predisposed to Marxist/Socialist thought. It's just that simple. He needs to be arrested and interred. Hopefully, someday, that will happen. He may not realise it, but it's folks just like him who pose the greatest threat this country has ever seen. We are in the midst of fighting what will probably wind up being WWIII and we have treasonous *******s like him still running around. Wake up America. |
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Michael 'I lied about my PhD' Bryant wrote: From: N8KDV Why does he do it? Because he's an academic, and they are predisposed to Marxist/Socialist thought. It's just that simple. Yes, all teachers get together once a week to plot the overthrow of this nation. More ridiculous **** from this NG's most ridiculous moron. He needs to be arrested and interred. Hopefully, someday, that will happen. Yes, you are certainly a Patriot Act-type of guy. Screw free speech. Support Bush or die seems to be your motto. He may not realise it, but it's folks just like him who pose the greatest threat this country has ever seen. Hey,, you certainly don't realize that fools like yourself are doing more to give the terrorists a victory than you are capable of realizing. Destroying our Constitutional freedoms plays directly into their hands. We are in the midst of fighting what will probably wind up being WWIII and we have treasonous *******s like him still running around. Yes, if we follow the lead of morons, like yourself, we shall certainly end up in WW3. But that's what you really want, right? Wake up America. Yes, wake up and see the neo-cons for exactly what they represent. More fabrications from the Fat Boy! |
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