From: (KK4TL)

(Michael Bryant) wrote ...


Any clear-thinking individual would agree that many American soldiers did
indeed carry out atrocities in VN.

Ok professor. You're on. I'm a clear-thinking individual and I will
NOT agree to your proposal here. How many is "many"? Ok there was My
Lai. Rattle off a few others. And demonstrate your meaning of
"many". A hundred? A thousand? Ten thousand? Granted one is too
many. But how many is "many" ?

Hundreds of different accounts exist regarding the atrocities committed by US
soldiers in VN. Including over 100 "fragging" investigations conducted by the
Pentagon. There's a reason why most VN villagers supported the VC over US
troops.

But, let me be clear: the vast majority of US troops were just kids thrown into
an unwinnable situation. They were not evil. Their leaders let them down.



The war was a horrible mistake and resulted
in the largest embarrassment that our military ever faced.

Amen and amen, professor. Agreed. No doubt about it. Will we ever
know what precipitated it? Oh yeah .. they told us we were there to
stop communism. Right. It didn't do a lot to stop communism, but a
lot of large corporations made a lot of pesos off the war, didn't
they?

I even heard .. that the Johnson family owned a transport company that
was shipping the war supplies. Yep, Lyndon "I'll go to war myself
before I send someone else's son to war" Johnson. Those Johnsons.

Well, gee, when have I ever defended LBJ?
Kennedy, LBJ and Nixon were all deluded and misled by defense advisors.
Kissinger and McNamara were serious offenders.


And we thought only republicans were involved in big business and war
mongering.

Nope. Never said that.


Proving that GREED is a bi-partisan quality. Yes?


Agreed.

Now explain how our agreement disproves that both Republicans and Democrats
made bad decisions in VN.

And you always drift. Even if LBJ and the Demos shared responsibility for VN,
how does that refute anything Kerry had to say about VN.

Kerry spoke the truth. I respect that in someone who I intend to vote for.


Michael Bryant, WA4009SWL
Louisville, KY
R75, S800, RX320, SW77, ICF2010K,
DX398, 7600G, 6800W, RF2200, 7600A,
Degen 1102, GE SRll, Pro-2006, Pro-2010, Pro-76
(remove "nospam" to reply)

KK4TL wrote:

ospam (Michael Bryant) wrote ...


Any clear-thinking individual would agree that many American soldiers did
indeed carry out atrocities in VN.

Ok professor. You're on. I'm a clear-thinking individual and I will
NOT agree to your proposal here. How many is "many"? Ok there was My
Lai. Rattle off a few others. And demonstrate your meaning of
"many". A hundred? A thousand? Ten thousand? Granted one is too
many. But how many is "many" ?

You can start with a quick search for "Tiger Force", or 'Vietnam
+"necklace of ears"':

"Sergeant Forrest Miller told Army investigators the killing of
prisoners was "an unwritten law." Other soldiers said they sought
revenge in the villages after unit members were killed and injured
during sniper and grenade attacks.

Soldiers often cited conflicting views of commanders as a reason they
killed unarmed people. Some commanders told investigators that civilians
could be targeted in certain circumstances; others said they could never
be attacked. During the Army's investigation, 27 soldiers said severing
ears from dead Vietnamese became routine.

"There was a period when just about everyone had a necklace of ears,"
former platoon medic Larry Cottingham told investigators.

The atrocities carried out by the unit came just months before the
killing of about 500 Vietnamese civilians by an Army unit in 1968 at My
Lai."



--
Mike
NAR #70953 - Sr/HPR Level-1 ~ BEMRC - NAR Section #627
NO Junk Email, please! Real email to: amphoto [at] blarg [dot] net.
WANTED: Experienced Kamikaze Pilot

KK4TL wrote:

Ok professor. You're on. I'm a clear-thinking individual and I will
NOT agree to your proposal here. How many is "many"? Ok there was My
Lai. Rattle off a few others. And demonstrate your meaning of
"many". A hundred? A thousand? Ten thousand? Granted one is too
many. But how many is "many" ?


================================================== ==
MITCHELL: We have begun hearings today to investigate the military
policy used in Vietnam which appears to us to foster war crimes. We are
concerned with such schemes as free-fire zones, search and destroy
missions, mass resettlement of peasantry and the so-called "bodycount
mania." Since the Dept of Defense [DOD] acknowledges the use of these
tactics, we wish to illustrate graphically what happens when such
tactics are translated into action. Vietnam has been called the ultimate
model war of attrition where civilians die by the score for every combat
soldier killed.
http://members.aol.com/warlibrary/vwch1.htm

================================================== ==
On October 19, 2003, the Ohio-based newspaper the Toledo Blade launched
a four-day series of investigative reports exposing a string of
atrocities by an elite, volunteer, 45-man "Tiger Force" unit of the U.S.
Army's 101st Airborne Division over the course of seven months in 1967.
The Blade goes on to state that in 1971 the Army began a 4.5 year
investigation of the alleged torture of prisoners, rapes of civilian
women, the mutilation of bodies and killing of anywhere from nine to
well over one hundred unarmed civilians, among other acts. The articles
further report that the Army's inquiry concluded that 18 U.S. soldiers
committed war crimes ranging from murder and assault to dereliction of
duty. However, not one of the soldiers, even of those still on active
duty at the time of the investigation, was ever court martialed in
connection with the heinous crimes. Moreover, six suspected war
criminals were allowed to resign from military service during the
criminal investigations specifically to avoid prosecution.


http://vancouver.indymedia.org/news/2003/11/87856.php
================================================== ==

Killing men, women, children and cutting up of bodies:

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/patrick.guen...nnews/stir.htm

================================================== ==


Hundreds more of these sites.





mike

Michael Bryant wrote:

Any clear-thinking individual would agree that many American soldiers did
indeed carry out atrocities in VN. The war was a horrible mistake and resulted
in the largest embarrassment that our military ever faced.

It wasn't a war and was never officially declared as such. It was a
'police action'. That made it easier for the taxpayer to swallow until
some sixty thousand body bags came home, showing your tax dollars at work.


http://www.archives.gov/research_roo...ics.html#state

If Bill Gates butchered the above URL, please use:

http://snipurl.com/8lrn





mike

m II wrote:
Michael Bryant wrote:
Any clear-thinking individual would agree that many American soldiers did
indeed carry out atrocities in VN. The war was a horrible mistake and resulted
in the largest embarrassment that our military ever faced.

It wasn't a war and was never officially declared as such. It was a
'police action'. That made it easier for the taxpayer to swallow until
some sixty thousand body bags came home, showing your tax dollars at work.

And in actual fact, the only evidence we have that "many American soldiers
did indeed carry out atrocities in VN" is from the lies told by Vietnam
Veterans Against The War.

--
Both Kerry and Edwards announced their candidacy near the beginning of September,
2003, so let's only count votes before then. From January, 2003, to August, 2003,
Senator Edwards didn't vote 69 out of 320 opportunities (~22%) and Senator Kerry
didn't vote 182 out of 320 opportunities (~57%). http://www.mwilliams.info/archives/001349.php

"Michael Bryant" wrote in message
...
From: (John S. Dyson)

Any clear-thinking individual would agree that many American soldiers did
indeed carry out atrocities in VN.

Any many more did not. Any clear-thinking individual can see that. Answer
this Bryant, do you think that Moveon.org and F911 are not smear campaigns?
I'm sure you won't answer, it's not your style to debate.

MnMikew wrote:

Any clear-thinking individual would agree that many American soldiers did
indeed carry out atrocities in VN.


Any many more did not. Any clear-thinking individual can see that.


If that is true, why are we still picking on the Nazis? Way under one
percent committed anything resembling an atrocity. Any clear thinking
individual can see that.




mike

"Michael Bryant" wrote in message
...
|
http://courierjournal.com/cjextra/ed...0822-3637.html

Cut 'n paste, Brybaby, keep cutting and pasting your hypocrazy;
you are as proficient as Lloyd Davies!

Riddle me this, Brybaby: Where was John Effing Kerrnedy on
Christmas Eve, 1968?

Keep in mind, it's bad form to answer a question with another
question, though I'm sure you'll whinge one or two.

73,

--
Steve Lawrence
KAØPMD
Burnsville, Minnesota

(NOTE: My email address has only one "dot."
You'll have to edit out the one between the "7"
and the "3" in my email address if you wish to
reply via email)


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.740 / Virus Database: 494 - Release Date: 8/16/04

"Michael Bryant" wrote in message
...

http://courierjournal.com/cjextra/ed...0822-3637.html


"The person who can bring this destructive ugliness to a halt is the
President himself. Sen. McCain, R-Ariz., has called on him to renounce the
ads.

Mr. Bush has not done so, however. Instead, his campaign has argued simply
that it had no hand in the ads. That's unlikely, but in any case it's not
the point."

Bush did so. Will Kerry do the same? Doubtful.



"No president should allow the military service of an American veteran to be
impugned recklessly and malevolently. "

The hypocrisy is amazing.