On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 21:54:29 GMT, Telamon
wrote:

Best case - What you are doing is to tune something in, look it up a
database other people have taken the time to verify and generate then
state you heard that station without identifying them yourself so your
log is worthless.

Why is that worthless?

Kameron Spesial wrote:

On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 21:54:29 GMT, Telamon
wrote:

Best case - What you are doing is to tune something in, look it up a
database other people have taken the time to verify and generate then
state you heard that station without identifying them yourself so your
log is worthless.

Why is that worthless?

Why, because he has no real idea whether it is that station or not. It's
called 'list-logging'., a bad hobby practice.

dxAce

I kind of agrtee with DX Ac on this one. listening for only two inutes
dosn't always give you a correcr i.d even if you actually heard a i.d.

such as a statin being relayed. as a made-up example HCJB Quito,
Ecuador being relayed over WCRB Okechobee Florida or WMLD Maryland.

and to make matters even more confusion, one of my local tv stations
constajntly I.D.'ed in a way that made them look like they were actually
the other tv station in town!!!!

they did own both tv stations in town. WOIO 19 and WUAB 43. showing
different programming. 19 is CBS. 43 is UPN.

43 identified with "WOIO-TV 19 Shaker Heights-Cleveland" in big printed
letters taking up almost the whole screen followed by "WUAB-TV 43
Lorain-Cleveland" in really tiny print so tiny that you couldn't really
see it on a 20 inch tv unless you were right up at the screen, and even
then, you really needed a magnifying glass.

Is that way of giving "station identification" legal?

I kind of agrtee with DX Ac on this one. listening for only two inutes
dosn't always give you a correcr i.d even if you actually heard a i.d.

such as a statin being relayed. as a made-up example HCJB Quito,
Ecuador being relayed over WCRB Okechobee Florida or WMLD Maryland.

and to make matters even more confusion, one of my local tv stations
constajntly I.D.'ed in a way that made them look like they were actually
the other tv station in town!!!!

they did own both tv stations in town. WOIO 19 and WUAB 43. showing
different programming. 19 is CBS. 43 is UPN.

43 identified with "WOIO-TV 19 Shaker Heights-Cleveland" in big printed
letters taking up almost the whole screen followed by "WUAB-TV 43
Lorain-Cleveland" in really tiny print so tiny that you couldn't really
see it on a 20 inch tv unless you were right up at the screen, and even
then, you really needed a magnifying glass.

Is that way of giving "station identification" legal?

From: Kameron Spesial

Telamon
wrote:

Best case - What you are doing is to tune something in, look it up a
database other people have taken the time to verify and generate then
state you heard that station without identifying them yourself so your
log is worthless.

Why is that worthless?

I've been in the hobby coming up on 40 years. In my years in high school and
college I studied a slew of languages. The first thing I do is try to identify
the language or language group. Then I use several databases, including HFCC,
ILG, EiBi to make an educated guess. Then I listen up to three or minutes
usually, until I can pick up on what's being talked about. Not really that
difficult. I never claimed any of this stuff to be DX info. I'm just listing
what I'm hearing. Anyone with a radio with an external antenna ought to be able
to confirm any list I provide.

But ignore Telamon. He's a COMPLETE off-the-wall loon. Is he STILL making
constant delusions about me not even having a radio?

That's why he was one of the first to go into the killfile. This NG is much
more enjoyable without seeing their posts. It would be better still, if you
didn't re-post their attempts to try to lure me into fighting with them.

Radio can be fun.


Michael Bryant, WA4009SWL
Louisville, KY
R75, S800, RX320, SW77, ICF2010K,
DX398, 7600G, 6800W, RF2200, 7600A,
Degen 1102, Degen 1103, GE SRll,
Pro-2006, Pro-2010, Pro-76
(remove "nospam" to reply)

Michael Bryant wrote:

From: Kameron Spesial

Telamon
wrote:

Best case - What you are doing is to tune something in, look it up a
database other people have taken the time to verify and generate then
state you heard that station without identifying them yourself so your
log is worthless.

Why is that worthless?

I've been in the hobby coming up on 40 years.

Yeah, and you still don't know the difference between Malaysia and Indonesia.

In my years in high school and
college I studied a slew of languages.

Sure you did.



The first thing I do is try to identify
the language or language group.

No you don't, you look at the list.

Then I use several databases, including HFCC,
ILG, EiBi to make an educated guess. Then I listen up to three or minutes
usually, until I can pick up on what's being talked about.

But your logs don't indicate that you are listening that long.

Not really that
difficult.

List-logging never is.

I never claimed any of this stuff to be DX info.

Nobody said it was.

I'm just listing
what I'm hearing.

No, you're listing what is on the list.

Anyone with a radio with an external antenna ought to be able
to confirm any list I provide.

You're lucky at the moment, but like all list loggers, someday you'll really screw
up, they all do. If you've been in the hobby for almost 40 years, surely you'd be
aware of that.

dxAce



But ignore Telamon. He's a COMPLETE off-the-wall loon. Is he STILL making
constant delusions about me not even having a radio?

That's why he was one of the first to go into the killfile. This NG is much
more enjoyable without seeing their posts. It would be better still, if you
didn't re-post their attempts to try to lure me into fighting with them.

Radio can be fun.

Michael Bryant, WA4009SWL
Louisville, KY
R75, S800, RX320, SW77, ICF2010K,
DX398, 7600G, 6800W, RF2200, 7600A,
Degen 1102, Degen 1103, GE SRll,
Pro-2006, Pro-2010, Pro-76
(remove "nospam" to reply)

"dxAce" wrote in message
...

snip

You're lucky at the moment, but like all list loggers, someday you'll
really screw
up, they all do. If you've been in the hobby for almost 40 years, surely
you'd be
aware of that.

Just what exactly is a list logger?

Honus wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...

snip

You're lucky at the moment, but like all list loggers, someday you'll
really screw
up, they all do. If you've been in the hobby for almost 40 years, surely
you'd be
aware of that.

Just what exactly is a list logger?

A list logger, in hobby parlance, is one who takes a published
frequency/station list, tunes his radio to said frequency at said time, and
then says 'I heard station 'xyz' at 2100 on frequency xxx', however, the
individual may have never heard an ID or anything that would actually indicate
that is indeed station 'xyz'.Their 'logging' is only as reliable (or
unreliable) as the list. Now, the list may or may not be correct, and the
station heard may not actually be the station on the list.

Things like that can and do happen. Proper identification leads to proper
lists, BUT, the list itself should only be used as a guide. Anything else is
merely a 'presumtive' logging of station 'xyz'

dxAce

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


Honus wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...

snip

You're lucky at the moment, but like all list loggers, someday you'll
really screw
up, they all do. If you've been in the hobby for almost 40 years,
surely
you'd be
aware of that.

Just what exactly is a list logger?

A list logger, in hobby parlance, is one who takes a published
frequency/station list, tunes his radio to said frequency at said time,
and
then says 'I heard station 'xyz' at 2100 on frequency xxx', however, the
individual may have never heard an ID or anything that would actually
indicate
that is indeed station 'xyz'.Their 'logging' is only as reliable (or
unreliable) as the list. Now, the list may or may not be correct, and the
station heard may not actually be the station on the list.

Ah. I thought as much. Is there any way of getting a sure station ID other
than on air identification, or perhaps simultaneous webcasts? (Or the
speaker identifying himself as Brother Stair.) It seems to me that anything
else would fall under the "presumptive" category.

I'm trying to be pretty picky about what I log. I'm doing this with my 9
year old daughter...we stick pins in a map on the wall marking the location
of the transmitters that we're receiving from. It's not as fun if we only
"think" that such and such a program came from such and such a place. I just
don't get why people would even bother list logging; it defeats the whole
purpose, in my view.

I'm a list lager, myself. If I drink too much beer, I tend to tilt to one
side.

In article ujT_c.2793$x12.561@trnddc05,
"Honus" wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


Honus wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...

snip

You're lucky at the moment, but like all list loggers, someday
you'll really screw up, they all do. If you've been in the
hobby for almost 40 years, surely you'd be aware of that.

Just what exactly is a list logger?

A list logger, in hobby parlance, is one who takes a published
frequency/station list, tunes his radio to said frequency at said
time, and then says 'I heard station 'xyz' at 2100 on frequency
xxx', however, the individual may have never heard an ID or
anything that would actually indicate that is indeed station
'xyz'.Their 'logging' is only as reliable (or unreliable) as the
list. Now, the list may or may not be correct, and the station
heard may not actually be the station on the list.

Ah. I thought as much. Is there any way of getting a sure station ID
other than on air identification, or perhaps simultaneous webcasts?
(Or the speaker identifying himself as Brother Stair.) It seems to me
that anything else would fall under the "presumptive" category.

I'm trying to be pretty picky about what I log. I'm doing this with
my 9 year old daughter...we stick pins in a map on the wall marking
the location of the transmitters that we're receiving from. It's not
as fun if we only "think" that such and such a program came from such
and such a place. I just don't get why people would even bother list
logging; it defeats the whole purpose, in my view.

I'm a list lager, myself. If I drink too much beer, I tend to tilt to
one side.

I sure there are plenty of methods you can use to figure it out such as
noting when a suspect station is broadcasting on more than one
frequency. This is where having more than one radio really comes in
handy. Looking up the programming content on the Internet would be
another. Drinking coffee instead of beer would be another.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California