dxAce wrote in message ...
bpnjensen wrote:

dxAce wrote in message ...

snips

No, the grey line is not always necessarily a straight line path, but can be a
'crooked path', and that is 'veering around corners' as you say.

Hmmm - can you explain this?

Geometrically, with the sun's rays essentially parallel to one another
shining on the disc of the earth, the grayline would always represent
a virtually perfect circumference, no matter which exact face the
earth presents to the sun - hence, while a flat map of the world shows
an undulating wave, the grayline is actually a 'straight' line along
the earth's face. The only deviation from this that I can determine
would be the astronomical width of the sun, about 0.5 degree, and
whatever 'ionic' width either side of that partial illumination at
sunrise/sunset would be involved in improved propagation.

I can imagine that something about the earth's magnetic field could
vary this, especilly *at* the poles - is this why some 'crookedness'
can occur?

Thanks,
Bruce Jensen

bpnjensen wrote:

dxAce wrote in message ...
bpnjensen wrote:

dxAce wrote in message ...

snips

No, the grey line is not always necessarily a straight line path, but can be a
'crooked path', and that is 'veering around corners' as you say.

Hmmm - can you explain this?

Geometrically, with the sun's rays essentially parallel to one another
shining on the disc of the earth, the grayline would always represent
a virtually perfect circumference, no matter which exact face the
earth presents to the sun - hence, while a flat map of the world shows
an undulating wave, the grayline is actually a 'straight' line along
the earth's face. The only deviation from this that I can determine
would be the astronomical width of the sun, about 0.5 degree, and
whatever 'ionic' width either side of that partial illumination at
sunrise/sunset would be involved in improved propagation.

I can imagine that something about the earth's magnetic field could
vary this, especilly *at* the poles - is this why some 'crookedness'
can occur?

It's very easy to see, just look at a grey line map.

It's a well known propagation phenomenon.

At least amongst the cognoscenti.

And, has nothing to do with the magnetic field.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

dxAce wrote in message ...
bpnjensen wrote:

dxAce wrote in message ...
bpnjensen wrote:

dxAce wrote in message ...

snips

No, the grey line is not always necessarily a straight line path, but can be a
'crooked path', and that is 'veering around corners' as you say.

Hmmm - can you explain this?

Geometrically, with the sun's rays essentially parallel to one another
shining on the disc of the earth, the grayline would always represent
a virtually perfect circumference, no matter which exact face the
earth presents to the sun - hence, while a flat map of the world shows
an undulating wave, the grayline is actually a 'straight' line along
the earth's face. The only deviation from this that I can determine
would be the astronomical width of the sun, about 0.5 degree, and
whatever 'ionic' width either side of that partial illumination at
sunrise/sunset would be involved in improved propagation.

I can imagine that something about the earth's magnetic field could
vary this, especilly *at* the poles - is this why some 'crookedness'
can occur?

It's very easy to see, just look at a grey line map.

It's a well known propagation phenomenon.

At least amongst the cognoscenti.

And, has nothing to do with the magnetic field.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

A "map" is not an accurate representation of the globe's surface - if
it is not on a spherical surface, then every single object plotted on
a map has some degree of distortion. The lovely sine-wave shaped
grayline you see on a typical flat map is a distortion of its true
shape, just as the map itself is a distortion of the earth's surface.

In reality, a grayline is a virtually perfect circle in a single plane
slicing through the center of the planet, corresponding to the
terminator of the sun's rays as they reach the earth. Even the
grayline websites admit this.

It is fairly easy to visualize. Put a ball (the earth) up in front of
you, with a bright small light (the sun) situated about 15 feet away.
Look at the side of the ball - the gray area at the horizon traces a
neat planar circle around the perimeter of the ball. Same with ol'
sol and terra, except on a bigger scale.

That, from a cognoscentus of simple geometry and astronomy.

Bruce Jensen

bpnjensen wrote:

dxAce wrote in message ...
bpnjensen wrote:

dxAce wrote in message ...
bpnjensen wrote:

dxAce wrote in message ...

snips

No, the grey line is not always necessarily a straight line path, but can be a
'crooked path', and that is 'veering around corners' as you say.

Hmmm - can you explain this?

Geometrically, with the sun's rays essentially parallel to one another
shining on the disc of the earth, the grayline would always represent
a virtually perfect circumference, no matter which exact face the
earth presents to the sun - hence, while a flat map of the world shows
an undulating wave, the grayline is actually a 'straight' line along
the earth's face. The only deviation from this that I can determine
would be the astronomical width of the sun, about 0.5 degree, and
whatever 'ionic' width either side of that partial illumination at
sunrise/sunset would be involved in improved propagation.

I can imagine that something about the earth's magnetic field could
vary this, especilly *at* the poles - is this why some 'crookedness'
can occur?

It's very easy to see, just look at a grey line map.

It's a well known propagation phenomenon.

At least amongst the cognoscenti.

And, has nothing to do with the magnetic field.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

A "map" is not an accurate representation of the globe's surface - if
it is not on a spherical surface, then every single object plotted on
a map has some degree of distortion. The lovely sine-wave shaped
grayline you see on a typical flat map is a distortion of its true
shape, just as the map itself is a distortion of the earth's surface.

In reality, a grayline is a virtually perfect circle in a single plane
slicing through the center of the planet, corresponding to the
terminator of the sun's rays as they reach the earth. Even the
grayline websites admit this.

It is fairly easy to visualize. Put a ball (the earth) up in front of
you, with a bright small light (the sun) situated about 15 feet away.
Look at the side of the ball - the gray area at the horizon traces a
neat planar circle around the perimeter of the ball. Same with ol'
sol and terra, except on a bigger scale.

That, from a cognoscentus of simple geometry and astronomy.

I'm truly sorry that you don't understand the concept, and cannot understand it. A case of
trying to over engineer the obvious?

Boggling.

But, I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it!

dxAce
Michigan
USA

dxAce wrote in message ...
bpnjensen wrote:

dxAce wrote in message ...
bpnjensen wrote:

dxAce wrote in message ...
bpnjensen wrote:

dxAce wrote in message ...

snips

No, the grey line is not always necessarily a straight line path, but can be a
'crooked path', and that is 'veering around corners' as you say.

Hmmm - can you explain this?

Geometrically, with the sun's rays essentially parallel to one another
shining on the disc of the earth, the grayline would always represent
a virtually perfect circumference, no matter which exact face the
earth presents to the sun - hence, while a flat map of the world shows
an undulating wave, the grayline is actually a 'straight' line along
the earth's face. The only deviation from this that I can determine
would be the astronomical width of the sun, about 0.5 degree, and
whatever 'ionic' width either side of that partial illumination at
sunrise/sunset would be involved in improved propagation.

I can imagine that something about the earth's magnetic field could
vary this, especilly *at* the poles - is this why some 'crookedness'
can occur?

It's very easy to see, just look at a grey line map.

It's a well known propagation phenomenon.

At least amongst the cognoscenti.

And, has nothing to do with the magnetic field.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

A "map" is not an accurate representation of the globe's surface - if
it is not on a spherical surface, then every single object plotted on
a map has some degree of distortion. The lovely sine-wave shaped
grayline you see on a typical flat map is a distortion of its true
shape, just as the map itself is a distortion of the earth's surface.

In reality, a grayline is a virtually perfect circle in a single plane
slicing through the center of the planet, corresponding to the
terminator of the sun's rays as they reach the earth. Even the
grayline websites admit this.

It is fairly easy to visualize. Put a ball (the earth) up in front of
you, with a bright small light (the sun) situated about 15 feet away.
Look at the side of the ball - the gray area at the horizon traces a
neat planar circle around the perimeter of the ball. Same with ol'
sol and terra, except on a bigger scale.

That, from a cognoscentus of simple geometry and astronomy.

I'm truly sorry that you don't understand the concept, and cannot understand it. A case of
trying to over engineer the obvious?

Boggling.

But, I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it!

dxAce
Michigan
USA

And, noting a person who obviously does not have your immense
background in this field and would love to have the benefit of your
vast knowledge, you are still unwilling to share it, I guess.

Or incapable.

I'd bet the latter.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

BJ
**

bpnjensen wrote:

dxAce wrote in message ...
bpnjensen wrote:

dxAce wrote in message ...
bpnjensen wrote:

dxAce wrote in message ...
bpnjensen wrote:

dxAce wrote in message ...

snips

No, the grey line is not always necessarily a straight line path, but can be a
'crooked path', and that is 'veering around corners' as you say.

Hmmm - can you explain this?

Geometrically, with the sun's rays essentially parallel to one another
shining on the disc of the earth, the grayline would always represent
a virtually perfect circumference, no matter which exact face the
earth presents to the sun - hence, while a flat map of the world shows
an undulating wave, the grayline is actually a 'straight' line along
the earth's face. The only deviation from this that I can determine
would be the astronomical width of the sun, about 0.5 degree, and
whatever 'ionic' width either side of that partial illumination at
sunrise/sunset would be involved in improved propagation.

I can imagine that something about the earth's magnetic field could
vary this, especilly *at* the poles - is this why some 'crookedness'
can occur?

It's very easy to see, just look at a grey line map.

It's a well known propagation phenomenon.

At least amongst the cognoscenti.

And, has nothing to do with the magnetic field.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

A "map" is not an accurate representation of the globe's surface - if
it is not on a spherical surface, then every single object plotted on
a map has some degree of distortion. The lovely sine-wave shaped
grayline you see on a typical flat map is a distortion of its true
shape, just as the map itself is a distortion of the earth's surface.

In reality, a grayline is a virtually perfect circle in a single plane
slicing through the center of the planet, corresponding to the
terminator of the sun's rays as they reach the earth. Even the
grayline websites admit this.

It is fairly easy to visualize. Put a ball (the earth) up in front of
you, with a bright small light (the sun) situated about 15 feet away.
Look at the side of the ball - the gray area at the horizon traces a
neat planar circle around the perimeter of the ball. Same with ol'
sol and terra, except on a bigger scale.

That, from a cognoscentus of simple geometry and astronomy.

I'm truly sorry that you don't understand the concept, and cannot understand it. A case of
trying to over engineer the obvious?

Boggling.

But, I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it!

dxAce
Michigan
USA

And, noting a person who obviously does not have your immense
background in this field and would love to have the benefit of your
vast knowledge, you are still unwilling to share it, I guess.

Or incapable.

I'd bet the latter.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Sure I do... you simply seem unable to grasp or visualize the concept.

'Tis you who have no idea!

dxAce
Michigan
USA

bpnjensen wrote:

dxAce wrote in message ...
bpnjensen wrote:

dxAce wrote in message ...
bpnjensen wrote:

dxAce wrote in message ...
bpnjensen wrote:

dxAce wrote in message ...

snips

No, the grey line is not always necessarily a straight line path, but can be a
'crooked path', and that is 'veering around corners' as you say.

Hmmm - can you explain this?

Geometrically, with the sun's rays essentially parallel to one another
shining on the disc of the earth, the grayline would always represent
a virtually perfect circumference, no matter which exact face the
earth presents to the sun - hence, while a flat map of the world shows
an undulating wave, the grayline is actually a 'straight' line along
the earth's face. The only deviation from this that I can determine
would be the astronomical width of the sun, about 0.5 degree, and
whatever 'ionic' width either side of that partial illumination at
sunrise/sunset would be involved in improved propagation.

I can imagine that something about the earth's magnetic field could
vary this, especilly *at* the poles - is this why some 'crookedness'
can occur?

It's very easy to see, just look at a grey line map.

It's a well known propagation phenomenon.

At least amongst the cognoscenti.

And, has nothing to do with the magnetic field.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

A "map" is not an accurate representation of the globe's surface - if
it is not on a spherical surface, then every single object plotted on
a map has some degree of distortion. The lovely sine-wave shaped
grayline you see on a typical flat map is a distortion of its true
shape, just as the map itself is a distortion of the earth's surface.

In reality, a grayline is a virtually perfect circle in a single plane
slicing through the center of the planet, corresponding to the
terminator of the sun's rays as they reach the earth. Even the
grayline websites admit this.

It is fairly easy to visualize. Put a ball (the earth) up in front of
you, with a bright small light (the sun) situated about 15 feet away.
Look at the side of the ball - the gray area at the horizon traces a
neat planar circle around the perimeter of the ball. Same with ol'
sol and terra, except on a bigger scale.

That, from a cognoscentus of simple geometry and astronomy.

I'm truly sorry that you don't understand the concept, and cannot understand it. A case of
trying to over engineer the obvious?

Boggling.

But, I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it!

dxAce
Michigan
USA

And, noting a person who obviously does not have your immense
background in this field and would love to have the benefit of your
vast knowledge, you are still unwilling to share it, I guess.

Or incapable.

I'd bet the latter.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

You just get back to me after you understand what grey line propagation is all about.

Study up, do a little thinking, get yourself an azimuthal map, figure out how to plot the gray
line on it (that will certainly go a long way to help you visualize what occurs) and than you
get back to me.

Until then, I guess I do know more about it than you do, since it only took me about 2 seconds
to comprehend it when I first learned of it.

It's so simple!

Boggling, truly boggling.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

Another skewed path propagation to ponder.

Six meter operators report: Often it is possible to contact stations well
off the great circle path between two stations
by means of back and side scatter from a sporadic-E cloud.

--
The Anon Keyboard
I doubt, therefore I might be