bpnjensen wrote:

(bpnjensen) wrote in message . com...

*The Question*: Am I wrong? Is it possible, or even common, for a
transmitted signal to travel to a receiver via some route other than a
Great Circle route? Is it possible for skip to veer around corners?
People talk about and use Gray Line conditions to their advantage, but
even *that* is a straight line / Great Circle pathway when one
exmaines what is happening - are there others that weave along warped
ways?

Thanks -
Bruce Jensen

As suggested or implied by both of the other posters here -

I looked up issues related to this on the internet, starting with a
Google search for skewed propagation.

After looking over some fascinating information, I think that the
answer to this question is, YES, 'skewing' of signals does occur due
to varying degrees of geomagnetic activity near the poles and,
especially, the locations and degrees of its gradient. At points of
high gradient, and usually well away from the most absorptive regions
where radio signal fear to tread, radio waves can actually take rather
sharp corners from standard great circle (GC) routes, and go from one
GC to another. These are most easily noted by amateur radio
operaters, who can keep careful track of the bearings of their antenna
arrays and the bearings fo their contacts. A careful and
well-informed SWL could do as much, although as most of probably use
nondirectional wires, or wires of unknown direction, it is probably
far less likely.

And, NO, grayline propagation *alone* does not follow warped or skewed
routes, following the clearly-defined GC grayline - but like any other
propagation, can be susceptible to skewing by the geomagnetic
gradient.

Yes, it does, you are very much wrong. It's incredibly easy to see, just by looking at a grey line map.

But heck, believe what you wanna believe!

I remain, and always will be,

dxAce
Michigan
USA

dxAce wrote in message ...
bpnjensen wrote:

(bpnjensen) wrote in message . com...

*The Question*: Am I wrong? Is it possible, or even common, for a
transmitted signal to travel to a receiver via some route other than a
Great Circle route? Is it possible for skip to veer around corners?
People talk about and use Gray Line conditions to their advantage, but
even *that* is a straight line / Great Circle pathway when one
exmaines what is happening - are there others that weave along warped
ways?

Thanks -
Bruce Jensen

As suggested or implied by both of the other posters here -

I looked up issues related to this on the internet, starting with a
Google search for skewed propagation.

After looking over some fascinating information, I think that the
answer to this question is, YES, 'skewing' of signals does occur due
to varying degrees of geomagnetic activity near the poles and,
especially, the locations and degrees of its gradient. At points of
high gradient, and usually well away from the most absorptive regions
where radio signal fear to tread, radio waves can actually take rather
sharp corners from standard great circle (GC) routes, and go from one
GC to another. These are most easily noted by amateur radio
operaters, who can keep careful track of the bearings of their antenna
arrays and the bearings fo their contacts. A careful and
well-informed SWL could do as much, although as most of probably use
nondirectional wires, or wires of unknown direction, it is probably
far less likely.

And, NO, grayline propagation *alone* does not follow warped or skewed
routes, following the clearly-defined GC grayline - but like any other
propagation, can be susceptible to skewing by the geomagnetic
gradient.

Yes, it does, you are very much wrong. It's incredibly easy to see, just by looking at a grey line map.

But heck, believe what you wanna believe!

I remain, and always will be,

dxAce
Michigan
USA

Again, you are relying on a "flat" map that cannot possibly give an
accurate representation of a "spherical" earth. Plotted on a
spherical globe, an accurate model of the planet, the grayline is
unmistakably circular around the globe, and traces a straight line
across the earth's surface through the antipode.

That goofy Mercator's-projection map you've been looking at all these
years has got you flummoxed. You need to read up on maps and what
they do the shape of things plotted on them.

Believing in things that can be proven and demonstrated scientifically
- everything else is theory,

Bruce Jensen,
semi-pro meteorologist,
amateur astronomer,
amateur geographer

bpnjensen wrote:

dxAce wrote in message ...
bpnjensen wrote:

(bpnjensen) wrote in message . com...

*The Question*: Am I wrong? Is it possible, or even common, for a
transmitted signal to travel to a receiver via some route other than a
Great Circle route? Is it possible for skip to veer around corners?
People talk about and use Gray Line conditions to their advantage, but
even *that* is a straight line / Great Circle pathway when one
exmaines what is happening - are there others that weave along warped
ways?

Thanks -
Bruce Jensen

As suggested or implied by both of the other posters here -

I looked up issues related to this on the internet, starting with a
Google search for skewed propagation.

After looking over some fascinating information, I think that the
answer to this question is, YES, 'skewing' of signals does occur due
to varying degrees of geomagnetic activity near the poles and,
especially, the locations and degrees of its gradient. At points of
high gradient, and usually well away from the most absorptive regions
where radio signal fear to tread, radio waves can actually take rather
sharp corners from standard great circle (GC) routes, and go from one
GC to another. These are most easily noted by amateur radio
operaters, who can keep careful track of the bearings of their antenna
arrays and the bearings fo their contacts. A careful and
well-informed SWL could do as much, although as most of probably use
nondirectional wires, or wires of unknown direction, it is probably
far less likely.

And, NO, grayline propagation *alone* does not follow warped or skewed
routes, following the clearly-defined GC grayline - but like any other
propagation, can be susceptible to skewing by the geomagnetic
gradient.

Yes, it does, you are very much wrong. It's incredibly easy to see, just by looking at a grey line map.

But heck, believe what you wanna believe!

I remain, and always will be,

dxAce
Michigan
USA

Again, you are relying on a "flat" map that cannot possibly give an
accurate representation of a "spherical" earth. Plotted on a
spherical globe, an accurate model of the planet, the grayline is
unmistakably circular around the globe, and traces a straight line
across the earth's surface through the antipode.

That goofy Mercator's-projection map you've been looking at all these
years has got you flummoxed. You need to read up on maps and what
they do the shape of things plotted on them.

Believing in things that can be proven and demonstrated scientifically
- everything else is theory,

Who the hell said I'm relying on a flat map...?

It's clear to me that you don't understand grey line propagation, or the terminology that goes along with it.

Someday perhaps you'll understand what the term 'crooked path' means.

It's just a term! Get a frickin clue Jensen!

You get back to me when you figure it out!

Boggling.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

dxAce wrote in message ...
bpnjensen wrote:

dxAce wrote in message ...

\ Who the hell said I'm relying on a flat map...?

It's either that or a globe - there ain't no in between...and it's
obvious you aren't talking about a spherical surface

It's clear to me that you don't understand grey line propagation, or the terminology that goes along with it.

And you apprently have a monopoly on this? I don't see it. In fact,
I would pay money to see you try to explain it.

Someday perhaps you'll understand what the term 'crooked path' means.

If someone would explain it to me without being a total jerk, maybe I
would. But, maybe I'm asking the wrong person - all you do lately is
call people 'tards for not agreeing with you...you don't contribute
much.

It's just a term! Get a frickin clue Jensen!

Ah, I see, so you use it but it's meaningless? Your powers of
communication are staggering.

You get back to me when you figure it out!
Boggling.

To you, maybe - but based on what I've seen and read, you're the *only
one* who doesn't understand - and not a single shred of what you've
said here gives any indication otherwise.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

BJ
**

bpnjensen wrote:

dxAce wrote in message ...
bpnjensen wrote:

dxAce wrote in message ...

\ Who the hell said I'm relying on a flat map...?

It's either that or a globe - there ain't no in between...and it's
obvious you aren't talking about a spherical surface

It's clear to me that you don't understand grey line propagation, or the terminology that goes along with it.

And you apprently have a monopoly on this? I don't see it. In fact,
I would pay money to see you try to explain it.

Someday perhaps you'll understand what the term 'crooked path' means.

If someone would explain it to me without being a total jerk, maybe I
would. But, maybe I'm asking the wrong person - all you do lately is
call people 'tards for not agreeing with you...you don't contribute
much.



It's just a term! Get a frickin clue Jensen!

Ah, I see, so you use it but it's meaningless? Your powers of
communication are staggering.

You get back to me when you figure it out!
Boggling.

To you, maybe - but based on what I've seen and read, you're the *only
one* who doesn't understand - and not a single shred of what you've
said here gives any indication otherwise.

Hey... don't have a damn hissy fit because you can't understand an extremely simple concept. And it is indeed
simple, you're probably looking right at it, yet you can't see it.

I certainly don't have a monopoly on the concept, nor the term itself, and I am not the originator of the term.

But it is certainly descriptive of what occurs, I'm just sorry you can't visualise it.

Truly boggling.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

bpnjensen wrote:

dxAce wrote in message ...
bpnjensen wrote:

(bpnjensen) wrote in message . com...

*The Question*: Am I wrong? Is it possible, or even common, for a
transmitted signal to travel to a receiver via some route other than a
Great Circle route? Is it possible for skip to veer around corners?
People talk about and use Gray Line conditions to their advantage, but
even *that* is a straight line / Great Circle pathway when one
exmaines what is happening - are there others that weave along warped
ways?

Thanks -
Bruce Jensen

As suggested or implied by both of the other posters here -

I looked up issues related to this on the internet, starting with a
Google search for skewed propagation.

After looking over some fascinating information, I think that the
answer to this question is, YES, 'skewing' of signals does occur due
to varying degrees of geomagnetic activity near the poles and,
especially, the locations and degrees of its gradient. At points of
high gradient, and usually well away from the most absorptive regions
where radio signal fear to tread, radio waves can actually take rather
sharp corners from standard great circle (GC) routes, and go from one
GC to another. These are most easily noted by amateur radio
operaters, who can keep careful track of the bearings of their antenna
arrays and the bearings fo their contacts. A careful and
well-informed SWL could do as much, although as most of probably use
nondirectional wires, or wires of unknown direction, it is probably
far less likely.

And, NO, grayline propagation *alone* does not follow warped or skewed
routes, following the clearly-defined GC grayline - but like any other
propagation, can be susceptible to skewing by the geomagnetic
gradient.

Yes, it does, you are very much wrong. It's incredibly easy to see, just by looking at a grey line map.

But heck, believe what you wanna believe!

I remain, and always will be,

dxAce
Michigan
USA

Again, you are relying on a "flat" map that cannot possibly give an
accurate representation of a "spherical" earth. Plotted on a
spherical globe, an accurate model of the planet, the grayline is
unmistakably circular around the globe, and traces a straight line
across the earth's surface through the antipode.

That goofy Mercator's-projection map you've been looking at all these
years has got you flummoxed. You need to read up on maps and what
they do the shape of things plotted on them.

Believing in things that can be proven and demonstrated scientifically
- everything else is theory,

I think you may also be confusing a great circle path, (short path) and it's reciprocal, (long path) propagation
with the separate phenomenon of grey line propagation, which can, and does follow other paths.

All you need is an azimuthal map, and an overlay of the grey line to understand what is going on, and then the
term 'crooked path' will become clear... and jump right up to smack you in the face.

It's pretty damn simple, even for a semi-pro whatever...

I'm gonna try and work with you here!

dxAce
Michigan
USA