"m II" wrote in message
news:9ZDjd.75891$E93.50459@clgrps12...
David wrote:
Wouldn't want to bore you. Here's more.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/INF307A.html



I don't know how anyone proclaiming a love for democracy can put up
with this corruption.


Easy. We're not as gullible as those who choose to believe it nor are
we required by our political predisposition to believe anything that
rationalizes losing an election.

David wrote in message . ..
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm

Maybe true, maybe not.
But one must remember that the "left" demanded CHANGE after the 2000
mess in FL.
I dislike all "paperless" transactions, be they fianancial or
election.
But the US public demands instant results. And no paper ballat system
can ever be fast enough. I remember watching election night as some
young
woman, identified by a lower third proclaiming her to be a Demonrat,
nearly
screamed that "this delay is not acceptable". She went on to say;
"Surely in
the 21st century, in the most advanced(sic) country on this planet, we
can
do better". Better in this case clearly meant faster.
I was concerned about the BIG difference in the outcome and the
projections based on exit polling. But whem several news sources
mentioned that Demonrats
were much more likely to respond then the evil Republicans, and that
state laws
keeping all 3rd party types (pollers, boosters etc) further away from
polling
places then in 2000, the difference made sense. Not saying that this
or any election is fair. A friend I worked with told us stories about
how his father
had been a city employee in Lousyville KY and had for years spent
election day
going from precinct to precinct voting in the name of people who had
recently
died. I have no proof that he was not telling tale tales, but the tone
of
the conversation lead me to accept what he said as being true. In his
case
it was the Demonrats that controlled the election. In 1996, it is
generaly accepted that Paul Patton stole the election with his
overwealming win in Jeffereson County KY. Lousyville is it's county
seat. After a grand jurry
handed down indictments against several top Demonrat party officials,
and
at least one union offical, one indicted lady killed herself. The feds
have really been heavy into election fraud in KY and I suspect that
she either knew she was going to jail, or someone decided that she
would plea bargin and shut her up. The Demonrats used to hand out
"walking" money like Saint Nick hading out candy to kids, the
difference being it was a very thinly disguised way to buy votes. The
feds put and end to that.

I am reminded of the big stink in Cook county IL after Nixon lost that
election election. It has been too many years, and I was only 9, but
several
of the major news magazines ran articles on how the dead voted and
pusehed the county for a Demonrat win.

I am not defending any election fraud and would like to see any and
all such actions raised to the level of treason with manditory death
for any and everyone who particpates. And I would go so far as to
modify the US constitution to mandate "truth serum" to be used in all
such cases. If it were up to me it would extend down to people
stealing
or defacing poltical signs on other peoples property.

It might not bring the US any closer togather in political terms, but
it would damn sure raise the stakes of the all too typical poliitical
"dirty tricks". Like the 6 or 7 vans rented by the Republicans to
transport
people to vote that had the tires sliced, apparently by the son a
Demonrat
FL politico. Or the local idiots here in Lexington who stole Bush and
Kerry signs. Or the fool in Ohio who was paid with crack to gather
voter registrations, and who was so lame as to use fairy tale names.
Or the principal at a special ed school who bribed his students to
vote
with ice cream.

And if for no other reasn then I don't trust any electronic system to
be tamper proof, I for one hate them and up until 2000 voted by
absentee ballot. But KY
changed the rules and made most people who had used paper ballots use
a special, reserved voting machine. I was told the paper ballots where
just "too hard to
handle." I argued "no, not too hard to handle, but to hard to
falsify". I ****ed the election board off big time. And at that time
KY was completly controlled by the Demonrats. (both houses and the Gov
where Demonrats and did pretty much as they pleased)

I guess we are seeing Darwin in action. Before the party with better
access to the registration process had the advantage. But now the
smartest party, or the party able to buy the smartest talent will use
technology to effect elections. Maybe the right has better (ormore
corrupt) programers then the left. Or maybe this election was as fair
as any US election has ever been.

Terry

On 9 Nov 2004 15:14:21 -0800, (Terry) wrote:

David wrote in message . ..
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm

Maybe true, maybe not.
But one must remember that the "left" demanded CHANGE after the 2000
mess in FL.
I dislike all "paperless" transactions, be they fianancial or
election.
But the US public demands instant results. And no paper ballat system
can ever be fast enough.

Well that's too darn bad. Elections are too important to compromise
for the TV networks and the mindless zombies who watch them.

David wrote in message . ..
On 9 Nov 2004 15:14:21 -0800, (Terry) wrote:

David wrote in message . ..
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm

Maybe true, maybe not.
But one must remember that the "left" demanded CHANGE after the 2000
mess in FL.
I dislike all "paperless" transactions, be they fianancial or
election.
But the US public demands instant results. And no paper ballat system
can ever be fast enough.

Well that's too darn bad. Elections are too important to compromise
for the TV networks and the mindless zombies who watch them.

While I agree with you, the sheeple and the newsies are really pushing
this electronic voting exactly because paper takes "too long".
When I point out the risks of a paperless system to my friends on both
the left and the right, they all dismiss it as near paranoid ramblings
of an overly tired mind. The only people I know who are concerned are
programers. They, those on both the left and the right, are very
unhappy
about the rush to a paperless, rapid count vote. I don't understand
the
big rush. The new Presisdent doesn't take office until January. And a
delay
of a week or so is not going to end the republic. But the writing is
on the
wall, electronic voting systems are in. And I guess they are here to
stay.
Even in Washington state (or maybe Oregon) the electronic system that
they used
several years ago was found to be less then secure by it's creator,
and the
state still went on and used it, after being told of the problems.
Maybe if there is a major clitch and one state, or large city losses
all their votes, then people might want security, a valid paper trail
and be willing to wait a few days for valid results. While I suspect
that this election was pretty "clean", it is only a mater of time
unitl some smart crook figures a way to spoof the system.
Terry

we

On 11 Nov 2004 09:12:36 -0800, (Terry) wrote:


Even in Washington state (or maybe Oregon) the electronic system that
they used
several years ago was found to be less then secure by it's creator,
and the
state still went on and used it, after being told of the problems.
Maybe if there is a major clitch and one state, or large city losses
all their votes, then people might want security, a valid paper trail
and be willing to wait a few days for valid results. While I suspect
that this election was pretty "clean", it is only a mater of time
unitl some smart crook figures a way to spoof the system.
Terry

we
Oregon is 100% paper ballots and 100% by mail. It seems to work very
well. It is insane to use a system that cannot be recounted.

David wrote in message . ..
On 11 Nov 2004 09:12:36 -0800, (Terry) wrote:


Even in Washington state (or maybe Oregon) the electronic system that
they used
several years ago was found to be less then secure by it's creator,
and the
state still went on and used it, after being told of the problems.
Maybe if there is a major clitch and one state, or large city losses
all their votes, then people might want security, a valid paper trail
and be willing to wait a few days for valid results. While I suspect
that this election was pretty "clean", it is only a mater of time
unitl some smart crook figures a way to spoof the system.
Terry

we
Oregon is 100% paper ballots and 100% by mail. It seems to work very
well. It is insane to use a system that cannot be recounted.

A friend sent me this URL:
http://www.rense.com/general50/acci.htm
I am having some effect locally.
Up until now he had insisted there where no
problems. While we both agree that rense
is not the most balanced place, still, the news
is a little unnerving.
Terry

On 12 Nov 2004 14:53:29 -0800, (Terry) wrote:

David wrote in message . ..

Oregon is 100% paper ballots and 100% by mail. It seems to work very
well. It is insane to use a system that cannot be recounted.

Hom many people voted and how long did it take to count the vote?
I am asking because this is an ongoing debate at work, with me taking
the anti-technology position that newer isn't always better.

There will be a couple days lag because votes postmarked on election
day will take time to arrive. So what? Why does everything have to
happen so fast?

David wrote in message . ..
On 12 Nov 2004 14:53:29 -0800, (Terry) wrote:

David wrote in message . ..

Oregon is 100% paper ballots and 100% by mail. It seems to work very
well. It is insane to use a system that cannot be recounted.

Hom many people voted and how long did it take to count the vote?
I am asking because this is an ongoing debate at work, with me taking
the anti-technology position that newer isn't always better.

There will be a couple days lag because votes postmarked on election
day will take time to arrive. So what? Why does everything have to
happen so fast?

As a guess, modern Americans have come to expect everything to happen
"right now". That is one major reason why our foriegn policy will
never make sense. Any usefull plan will take too long and the
sheeple will loose their attention and move on to the next quick fix.
Overweight, simple eat less and exercise. But that takes too long,
so along come lyposuction, stomach stapple and bowel bypassing.
Kids can't read, simple take the time and energy to have one adult
work with one child and find out how that child learns. But that
takes too long so the school system, at least here in central Kentucky,
jumps from one wild scheme to another and Jophnny still can't read.
Even the government seams to be driven by tracking polls. What is
TODAYs problem? Remember Somolia? The nightmare had been going on
for years before CNN etal started harping on the "starving children"
and the evil warlords, the media looked like a shark feeding frenzy.
And President Bush(1) sent troups to "protect" the food chain.
Instant solution to a long term problem. Only the solution imploded.
Almost every problem facing the US or the world lacks a fast solution.
And will not be solved.
As too the elction result need for speed, I think it is driven in large
part by our major media outlets. They harp on this or that delay.
And the public assumes that there is some valid need for speed.
I suspect that most Presidetnial candidates already have their cabnet
choices made well before election night. If for now other reason then
to cement their help in the election. I am guesing that a candidate
could throw a cabnet togahter in a week or so.
The republic survived for years without instant results.
But the idiots I work with all thin the world will end unless they
can go to bed at 11:00EST without knowing who won.
I have never watchted the results. When I was a child my parents
treated election night as family night. We would play games, or mom
and dad would tell us about their childhood. When I was 10 several of
the families in our neighborhood had what might today be called a "block
party". I got to (was forced to) dance with several of the girls.
As I got older I was kind of shocked to find out the the real world
came to a complete halt on election night. Today my wife and I watch
movies, enjoy pop corn and play Scrable.
In 2004 I heard about the election screwup on the way to work and
turned my radio off in disgust. I was certain that Kentucky had messed up.
Terry

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!


On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 11:55:31 +0000, Noel wrote:

On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 21:39:20 GMT, JuLiE Dxer
wrote:

Do you realize you're preaching to ignorant "anti-American" scum

Can't practise what you preach, eh?

On 14 Nov 2004 09:29:59 -0800, (Terry) wrote:


I wonder just how much TV has altered out preception of reality.
A LEO that I know, he is a SWL and a sometimes ham radio operator,
told me
about a training event he had to go through. It seems that most police
expect a single, well placed pistol round to stop a bad guy. To knock
them backwards like on TV/movies. When in fact a riffle round will not
always stop an angry/frightened/druged person. Thay shot their service
weapons into suspended 100Lb bags of sand and the bags barely moved,
1/8"
at most. The trainer warned them that they were "Training to die" by
watching TV cop shows or adventure movies. Kind of spooky that TV is
altering our perceptions of reality to the point that a LEO trainer
calls it "training to die".

Good point. On the other hand, the opposite lesson can also be
drawn from other shows. I remember seeing an interview with an
emergency room nurse who frequently sees young people coming in with
gunshot wounds. She says many are surprised that getting shot just
once hurts and that you can't simply keep advancing on the one
shooting you, taking multiple hits, until you're close enough to take
him out.