wrote:

I too have found a tuner will bring up the signal strength for Radio
Flyspeck to a nice level. But it will also being up static and other
signals on the same frequency in proportion. I don't know how a tuner
could select one signal and lift it above all the other competing
transmissions on the same frequency.
Transmit is of course a whole 'nuther ballgame.

It doesn't, but I can see that you're missing the point! If ones antenna has
such a bad mismatch that you can't actually hear Radio Flyspeck very well and an
antenna tuner will bring it up to a better level then that's great. Forget about
noise, that's a popular misconception as far as I'm concerned.

Noise is noise is noise.

Oh well.

All I know about is what has been successful for myself, your mileage may vary,
as they say.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

http://www.iserv.net/~n8kdv/dxpage.htm

wrote:

I too have found a tuner will bring up the signal strength for Radio
Flyspeck to a nice level. But it will also being up static and other
signals on the same frequency in proportion. I don't know how a tuner
could select one signal and lift it above all the other competing
transmissions on the same frequency.
Transmit is of course a whole 'nuther ballgame.

And no, transmit in not a whole 'nuther ballgame.

The same properties apply to a transmitted signal as it does to a received
signal.

It's physics.

Proper transfer is proper transfer, no matter which way one tries to figure it.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

http://www.iserv.net/~n8kdv/dxpage.htm

MK,

The 'tuner' simply "Optimizes" the MATCH between the Receiver and/or
Transmitter and the Antenna and Feed-Line; since most 'tuners' are
near the Receiver and/or Transmitter.

Both Signal and Noise are transfered equally.

For 'noise reduction' look to modifying your Antenna, Feed-Line and
Ground [System] to maintain or improve your signal levels; and reduce
your noise levels.

..
kisap ~ RHF
..
..

The issue, or question is whether an antena tuner can selectively
increase one signal within the mishmash of other stuff you are hearing.
If you receiver is hearing an ambient noise level that is above the
internally noise floor within the receiver then an antenna tuner will
only bring that ambient noise leveI up. If you were hearing Radio Fly
Speck against a background of static and weaker stations, then
adjusting an antenna tuner will increase the signal strength of
everything including RFS. It won't magically lift just that single
station from the mud.

Said another way it isn't possible for a tuner change the difference in
signal strength between the desired signal and all the other signals
that are competing for your ear on the same frequency.

I've tried both MFJ and Grove tuners and the end results were the same.
Tuners can be fun if you want to twiddle some knobs.

wrote:

The issue, or question is whether an antena tuner can selectively
increase one signal within the mishmash of other stuff you are hearing.
If you receiver is hearing an ambient noise level that is above the
internally noise floor within the receiver then an antenna tuner will
only bring that ambient noise leveI up. If you were hearing Radio Fly
Speck against a background of static and weaker stations, then
adjusting an antenna tuner will increase the signal strength of
everything including RFS. It won't magically lift just that single
station from the mud.

Said another way it isn't possible for a tuner change the difference in
signal strength between the desired signal and all the other signals
that are competing for your ear on the same frequency.

I've tried both MFJ and Grove tuners and the end results were the same.
Tuners can be fun if you want to twiddle some knobs.

You've missed the point, as I stated earlier!

Have fun.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

The issue, or question is whether an antena tuner can selectively
increase one signal within the mishmash of other stuff you are hearing.
If you receiver is hearing an ambient noise level that is above the
internally noise floor within the receiver then an antenna tuner will
only bring that ambient noise leveI up. If you were hearing Radio Fly
Speck against a background of static and weaker stations, then
adjusting an antenna tuner will increase the signal strength of
everything including RFS. It won't magically lift just that single
station from the mud.

Said another way it isn't possible for a tuner change the difference in
signal strength between the desired signal and all the other signals
that are competing for your ear on the same frequency.

I've tried both MFJ and Grove tuners and the end results were the same.
Tuners can be fun if you want to twiddle some knobs.

In article .com,
wrote:
The issue, or question is whether an antena tuner can selectively
increase one signal within the mishmash of other stuff you are hearing.
If you receiver is hearing an ambient noise level that is above the
internally noise floor within the receiver then an antenna tuner will
only bring that ambient noise leveI up. If you were hearing Radio Fly
Speck against a background of static and weaker stations, then
adjusting an antenna tuner will increase the signal strength of
everything including RFS. It won't magically lift just that single
station from the mud.

But if some of that noise is intermod in your receiver because of
nearby strong signals, a preselector may help. A better receiver will,
too.

Said another way it isn't possible for a tuner change the difference in
signal strength between the desired signal and all the other signals
that are competing for your ear on the same frequency.

I've tried both MFJ and Grove tuners and the end results were the same.
Tuners can be fun if you want to twiddle some knobs.

I've got a Grove minituner-tun3, and it's useless above about 2 MHz with
a 60 foot or so random wire. But it's the only way to get anything on
that wire below 500 kHz. So it's real function seems to be matching a
short (relative to the signal's wavelength) high impedance antenna to
the receiver's 50 ohm input.

Mark Zenier Washington State resident

You've missed the point, as I stated earlier!


I use an antenna tuner also. An old Johnson Matchbox.

Yes, it indeed will raise up a very week signal which may not
even be audible without a tuner. What is occurring is that the tuner
will facilitate the transfer of energy from a large impedance (Z) mismatch
between the
antenna and the receiver when the receiver is tuned far off from the
antenna's
resonance frequency.

The drawback is that you will have to "tune" the tuner each time you change
bands.

It has nothing to do with static and noise. The tuner will simply optimize
the signal transfer
, including noise, between the antenna/feedline and receiver. Sometimes
this is all that may
be required to "hear" the signal which otherwise would be completely lost
from the large
impedance mismatch.

If you receiver is hearing an ambient noise level that is above the
internally noise floor within the receiver then an antenna tuner will
only bring that ambient noise leveI up.

True.

If you were hearing Radio Fly
Speck against a background of static and weaker stations, then
adjusting an antenna tuner will increase the signal strength of
everything including RFS. It won't magically lift just that single
station from the mud.

True.


Said another way it isn't possible for a tuner change the difference in
signal strength between the desired signal and all the other signals
that are competing for your ear on the same frequency.

True. However you are missing one more possibility. That is the impedance
mismatch
between the antenna and receiver is so great that you cannot hear Radio Fly
Speck at all.
This impedance mismatch is akin to placing an attenuator in-line with your
feedline.
In which case the tuner will "tune out" the loses caused by the mismatch and
allow Radio
Fly Speck to rise above the receiver's noise level. Including the static
crashes to of course.
But there you are - Fly Speck Radio becomes audible. Works for me!

tianli wrote:


You've missed the point, as I stated earlier!


I use an antenna tuner also. An old Johnson Matchbox.

Yes, it indeed will raise up a very week signal which may not
even be audible without a tuner. What is occurring is that the tuner
will facilitate the transfer of energy from a large impedance (Z) mismatch
between the
antenna and the receiver when the receiver is tuned far off from the
antenna's
resonance frequency.

The drawback is that you will have to "tune" the tuner each time you change
bands.

It has nothing to do with static and noise. The tuner will simply optimize
the signal transfer
, including noise, between the antenna/feedline and receiver. Sometimes
this is all that may
be required to "hear" the signal which otherwise would be completely lost
from the large
impedance mismatch.

Yep, you got it!

dxAce
Michigan
USA