"Brian Oakley" wrote in message
...

"Honus" wrote in message
news:0PUSd.54644$uc.42624@trnddc04...

"Brian Oakley" wrote in message
...

To dismiss changed lives as a result of the teachings of the Bible is
smugness.

Sort of like how Christians dismiss changed lives as the result of the
changed person reading -other- holy texts, right? It does happen, you
know.
Not too many Christians are as generous as you must be when it comes to
giving credit where credit is due. Tell me, do you rejoice when you hear
of
a changed life because of, say, a conversion to Islam? Or do you simply
dismiss it?

I don't rejoice, because I know what the Koran teaches. Dismiss it? No.
There are other spirits that can influence someone when they open a
doorway
to let them in. Do you know much about the spirit world?

More than likely, more than you. Based on your infantile debating tactics
and meager lines of "reasoning", I'm guessing I was a fundie longer than
you've been alive. I am also guessing that I'm better read than you as well.
I could be wrong...but I think not. I warned you once, you don't know my
history or my background. And you -don't- know what the Koran teaches;
that's readily apparent.

"Brian Oakley" wrote in message
...

"Honus" wrote in message
news:8xUSd.54616$uc.51542@trnddc04...

"Brian Oakley" wrote in message
...

"Honus" wrote in message
news:TSSSd.54280$uc.7168@trnddc04...

"Brian Oakley" wrote in message
...

"Honus" wrote in message
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"Al Patrick" wrote in message
...

I do know that a few on this group would rejoice at the
thoughts of the death of any true Christian.

Name one.

Dont really need to. They are there. They know who they are. They
are
of
age. Ask them.

I wasn't talking to you, unless you're one of Al Patrick's
sock-puppets.

Gosh, guess only one person can reply to an atheists

I was asking something of a specific individual. He made the statement,
he
can back it up. Since he's the one thinking of particular individuals,
then
he's the only one who can answer the question despite your pathetic need
to
interject on his behalf. Unless of course you think you're some sort of
mind-reader, which would only be par for the course for so many theists.
It
stands to reason that they -must- be able to read minds and see into the
hearts of other people...otherwise, how could they justify being so
judgemental? But of course that doesn't apply to you.

When someone else jumps in to help, you atheists get all frazzeled. If you
cant take the heat...

I'm talking to you, aren't I? Claiming victory when there's none to be
claimed is so sad. Trust me, little one, I can take all of the heat you can
bring. All of it. :)

Besides, your answer wasn't an answer at all.

Yeah, just pooh pooh it off. What a lame statement.

Yes, just pooh pooh off my observation. _That_ is lame.

post but atheists can
crosspost to every anti-Christian ng on the web and its ok?

Well, duh. If it's an anti-Christian ng, then that's most likely an
appropriate place for an atheist to post. Would you rather they posted
to
PRO-Christian newsgroups? Christ, you guys bitch about -everything-.

Yeah for the effect of virtually shouting someone down in that they cant
reply to every post from every anti-Christian ng on the web. THATS why you
crosspost.

Hey, junior...this is NOT being cross-posted. I deserve an apology. I don't
expect one.

Because thats where all the athiest hang out to bolster each one
in his folly. There arent enough athiests in the world to fill ALL the
ng's
with a majority.

Yes, and I suppose if you had your way there'd be none at all, and not as a
result of peaceful conversion, either. Are you one of those theists that
don't think I should be allowed to live, or participate in government, or
raise my children as I see fit? I come across them every now and then. The
smell's the same. That, by the way, is what's so dangerous about people who
think they know who's a "real christian". You're only safe as far as your
variety is in power. You're foolish enough to not see that.

Er to wit, lets crosspost to those minority athiestic ng's
and make our voice so loud that they will shut up. Yeah, good way to "win"
a
debate and make us look smart. Oh brother.

Are you talking to your dog? Because he's listening about as well as I am,
and that statement probably applies to him as well as it does to me. There's
no cross-posting going on here, just an off-topic flame-fest.

Guess you got an
answer to your question though didn't you?

If my question was is Brian Oakley a dick, then I guess I did indeed.

Again, if ad hominem attacks are the best you can do then I suggest you
find
a different occupation than a professional ng lurker.

Lurker? I've got thousand of Usenet posts to my credit. What's your tally,
and mind you I'm being gracious by ignoring any signal to noise ratio. I
lurk in groups where I'm new, so that I can get a feel for what's acceptable
and what's not, who the players are and so forth. I do it for a time in
groups that I'm new to as a courtesy. I'm not a lurker in this group, and
where you got that twisted idea is beyond me. And yes, that "dick" remark
was ad hominem. I stand by it. What you need to understand is that ad
hominem -by itself- is what's considered weak. It's frowned upon by some
when it's included in an argument, but the argument still stands whether my
voicing my opinion of you bothers you or not. I'll never just call you a
dick. I'll tell you why I think you are one. And for what it's worth, I
don't really consider you to be a dick anymore. I have a different view of
you now. :)

"BDK" wrote in message
...
In article ,

The original of this never showed up on my server, so I'm piggy-backing.

I thought he was amusing. Most all the other preachers are
slimeballs
at
best, so I'm not rejoicing he's dead, but I don't think there's
any
reason to be happy about it...and prostate cancer can be a bad way
to
go...

Right here I could interject the same word you used above. Proof.
How do
you
know its a bad way to go? You gone that way? No.

Holy crap, you're weak! And you tell me to go to debating school?! Mind
boggling. I guess that since the Bible doesn't say that it's a bad way to
go, you don't feel comfortable in taking someone elses word for it.

Maybe yes. The same could be said for Dr. Scott. If you ever knew
any
Christians, you would see their serenity in their leaving this
world.

I've seen -plenty- of Christians die, and this is true. Most of them and
their families do take it quite well, considering. But who wouldn't, if they
really believed what they profess? It's not an impressive thing. The
impressive ones are the people who face it with grace and dignity believing
that the end is the end. How you can sit there and brag about Christians
dying with serenity when they don't believe they're really dying in the
first place is beyond me. Almost. I hereby predict a semantic argument from
you.


Ask
the doctors. They can tell you that Christians on the whole have
more
of a
grip on death than those who dont know God.

Nonsense. I looked it up. You're wrong. Now you go look it up too. When you
don't. or can't, come back and I'll show you the difference between the two
of us; I'll actually point out where you're wrong.

They can tell you the horror
on
the faces of those who die not knowing what will happen to them
after
they
are gone.

I am SO glad that I'm sitting down to read all of this. Falling out of ones
chair is so much safer when you're closer to the ground.

In article ,
says...

"BDK" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

"BDK" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

"BDK" wrote in message
...
In article ,

says...
By now all of you know that Dr. Gene Scott has passed, but guess
what?
All of US are going to pass away also. It is appointed unto man
once to
die AND AFTER THAT THE JUDGMENT! Heb. 9:27

The righteous are REQUIRED to tell the wicked they are going to
die.
Eze. 3:18

The Christian is better off dead because he is with Christ and
no
longer
concerned about possibly failing and denying Christ here on
earth.
Phillipians 1:23.


So you claim..proof.

The bible is not proof Al! A book can say anything.


The non-Christian needs to be greatly concerned about dying
before
accepting Christ for there is NO OTHER WAY to the Father in
heaven.
John 14:6, KJV, "Jesus saith unto him, I am THE way, THE truth,
and
THE
life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

So you claim, I'm not really worried, I'll just be worm food, like
you.
You probably aren't going anywhere...except into the ground.


Some of you rejoice at the death of Dr. Gene Scott. Many
Christians
rejoice with you for, if he was truly a Christian (only God
knows
the
heart), he is far better off than he ever was here. ... Even
before
he
got prostate cancer. See Phil. 1:23.


I thought he was amusing. Most all the other preachers are
slimeballs
at
best, so I'm not rejoicing he's dead, but I don't think there's
any
reason to be happy about it...and prostate cancer can be a bad way
to
go...

Right here I could interject the same word you used above. Proof.
How do
you
know its a bad way to go? You gone that way? No. You know someone
who
has?
Maybe yes. The same could be said for Dr. Scott. If you ever knew
any
Christians, you would see their serenity in their leaving this
world.
Ask
the doctors. They can tell you that Christians on the whole have
more
of a
grip on death than those who dont know God. They can tell you the
horror
on
the faces of those who die not knowing what will happen to them
after
they
are gone. So throwing that word "proof" around shouldnt make you
feel
as
smug as you think you are.
B




Smug?? No, just realistic.


I knew two people that had prostate cancer, one is still alive, having
had to be castrated, and then radiated and chemoed to the point he
almost died from it alone. But somehow, he made it. Tough guy.

The other guy had no signs of any problems, then started having pain
when standing up. He was loaded with cancer that had spread to his
spine. The cancer was so widespread they didn't even try to do chemo,
he
was too far gone. He spent his last 3 weeks or so in bed, hooked to a
morphine drip that never put out enough to really stop the pain. He
was
a christian, and he wasn't "serene" in the least. Maybe he had
doubts..

Other christians may be more serene, but the placebo effect can
account
for that. If you believe in something strong enough, it can do
"wonders".

But the most "serene" person I ever saw that was dying was a friend's
dad, who was an atheist from a young age, like myself. He was ok with
it, "Hey, 80 isn't that bad, longer than I ever expected!" He just
kind
of faded away. Boy, would he have been ****ed if he knew his sisters
got
together and had a minister do a memorial service before the "real"
one.
The after funeral "wake" was about as tense as I have ever seen, one
of
the sister's kids blabbed the whole deal as the real service ended. It
was entertaining.

BDK

To dismiss changed lives as a result of the teachings of the Bible is
smugness. You don't know most peoples testimonies. And it is their
testimony. You cant deny it. You don't have to believe it, but that
doesn't
make you right. After all, they are the ones claiming a changed live.
If
you don't believe it, fine, go your way, but you don't need to be
putting
them down. You don't have the authority to speak for them.
B





Neither do you....

BDK

Actually I do.
B




No, you don't. You hope, pray, desire that you do, but like everything
religious, there's no real certainty. That's a fact. People claim all
kinds of things. You don't know what anyone is really thinking.

BDK

Let the auld bastid croak already.He can't,his better half has done
resurected his ass in her own image.Dig the auld fart up and bury his
ass again.
cuhulin

Honus wrote:

"Al Patrick" wrote in message
...

Honus, Like I said, search the groups for the words (?) xian and g-d
and you'll find several of them. Don't expect ME to do YOUR work for
you! ;-)


Oh, so now it's "groups" and not this group.

Sure. It was posted in THIS group but you can search any group and it
just might still hold true - wherever you find it.

Larry Ozarow wrote:

Al Patrick wrote:

Do you know where the Medical Deists (MD's) got their symbol? I'll
give you a hint. Numbers 21 and II Kings 18 and it represented Jesus
Christ the healer, who also suffered and died for us. It seems to me
the medical industry is very much attempting to play God.


It's actually the caduceus, the staff of Hermes, which
is a more aesthetically pleasing version of the staff
of Asclepius, the Greek god of healing. The scripture
you refer to mentions a healing staff of Moses and doesn't
really have anything to do with to Jesus at all, since he hadn't made
much of an appearance during the period covered by Numbers
or II Kings.

Read it carefully, THEN decide. Also, ever heard of 'types' and/or
'antitypes'?

Al Patrick wrote:
Larry Ozarow wrote:

Al Patrick wrote:

Do you know where the Medical Deists (MD's) got their symbol? I'll
give you a hint. Numbers 21 and II Kings 18 and it represented Jesus
Christ the healer, who also suffered and died for us. It seems to me
the medical industry is very much attempting to play God.


It's actually the caduceus, the staff of Hermes, which
is a more aesthetically pleasing version of the staff
of Asclepius, the Greek god of healing. The scripture
you refer to mentions a healing staff of Moses and doesn't
really have anything to do with to Jesus at all, since he hadn't made
much of an appearance during the period covered by Numbers
or II Kings.


Read it carefully, THEN decide. Also, ever heard of 'types' and/or
'antitypes'?

Recall, Al, that I am one of them serpent people, so I'm not so
familiar with Christian hermeneutics. So I read up a little on
it on the web after your post.

It seems to me that the use of types and antitypes is an analytic
technique. The type can be seen as foreshadowing or even representing
the antitype (assuming of course that you believe in the Christian
bible), but it doesn't necessarily become it. In comparing the two
things you can uncover some new understanding about both.

The authors of Numbers and Kings were really really really writing about
the staff of Moses. Jesus was a long time in the future, and given what
happened during Jesus' life these particular guys would probably not
put much stock in him, anyway.
If you play the game and say that God
wrote or dictated or inspired the whole thing then you can pretend
that all the good guys in the Hebrew bible are really Jesus, and
everything raised up is really Jesus on the cross, and the ark is
really the Church and on and on, but that
reduces the whole thing to be an act of decryption, and it starts
to look like human history really is a lot like something in "The Sirens
of Titan."

All this is not relevant to your original post, since the caduceus
was specifically chosen from Greek mythology, unless you want to
appropriate all of western civilization using types and antitypes as well.

Honus wrote:

"Al Patrick" wrote in message
...

Honus wrote:


"Al Patrick" wrote in message
...


Honus, Like I said, search the groups for the words (?) xian and g-d
and you'll find several of them. Don't expect ME to do YOUR work for
you! ;-)


Oh, so now it's "groups" and not this group.

Sure. It was posted in THIS group but you can search any group and it
just might still hold true - wherever you find it.



No. Here's what you said:

"I do know that a few on this group would rejoice at the
thoughts of the death of any true Christian."

This group means r.r.s. It wasn't cross-posted and it was only posted here.
So I have to take you at your word when you say THIS group. I'm still
waiting for you to finger someone in -this- group, not
alt.deathtochristians. I'm more than willing to let it die, though. The
point's been made.


And the FACT remains. Do a search of THIS GROUP for the words xian and
g-d and you WILL turn up a few of them. Check out First John 2:

18 ¶ Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that
antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we
know that it is the last time.

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been
of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out,
that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

20 ¶ But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but
because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is
antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he
that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the
beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain
in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and
ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth
you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath
taught you, ye shall abide in him.

28 ¶ And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall
appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth
righteousness is born of him.

"Al Patrick" wrote in message
...
Honus wrote:

"Al Patrick" wrote in message
...

Honus wrote:


"Al Patrick" wrote in message
...


Honus, Like I said, search the groups for the words (?) xian and g-d
and you'll find several of them. Don't expect ME to do YOUR work for
you! ;-)


Oh, so now it's "groups" and not this group.

Sure. It was posted in THIS group but you can search any group and it
just might still hold true - wherever you find it.



No. Here's what you said:

"I do know that a few on this group would rejoice at the
thoughts of the death of any true Christian."

This group means r.r.s. It wasn't cross-posted and it was only posted
here.
So I have to take you at your word when you say THIS group. I'm still
waiting for you to finger someone in -this- group, not
alt.deathtochristians. I'm more than willing to let it die, though. The
point's been made.


And the FACT remains. Do a search of THIS GROUP for the words xian and
g-d and you WILL turn up a few of them. Check out First John 2:

The only facts that remain are the fact that you said there were people in
this group that rejoice at the thought of Christians dying, and the fact
that you haven't named any.

As for your incessant plea for me to look it up, I did...and you're STILL
wrong.

It's past time for you to give it up.