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"running dogg" wrote
What you are likely to see in China is the collapse of their banks, which are already insolvent and technically bankrupt, and the disentigration of the CCP. Neither of which will likely spell the end of their manufacturing base. In the very short term there may be disruptions but it would quickly recover and without the CCPoverhead possibly become much more robust. Possibly. But China has a tradition of warlord rule, and for much of its history has been broken into feuding fiefdoms, despite the common culture and language of the Chinese people. Then again, the same situation persisted in Italy for a thousand years, and that country is now stable and prosperous. China has been under the CCP's vicious rule for over half a century. There are very few to zero individuals still alive in China who are even remotely aware of its pre-CCP history - they have been brainwashed. Very few individuals in any sense of power know anything else but CCP burocracy let alone some type of organized civil war. The argument that the CCP provides "stability" and the people would succumb to civil warfare is warn out CCP propaganda. If anything, a collapse of the CCP form of government would bring the nation together to rebuild a more Democratic form of government. Chinese people are not ignorant pheasants like many seem to make them out to be. Take a look at your University and its graduate and PHD students, especially in the math & sciences. I willing to bet that a significant percentage are Taiwanese or mainland Chinese. Granted, a large majority still live very poorly in the countryside. But today, the average urban citizen is fairly worldly considering the amount of censorship in media. Please review the circumstances that revolved around Tiananmen Square in 1989 and please tell me if what you have seen there looked anything like a civil war? It wasn't even close and the military came out with blood all over them. This give credence to the propaganda about "stability" and its irrelevence to China today. I think your hatred of the CCP has blinded you to the serious implications of a potential China collapse. Your love of the CCP has seriously blinded you to a brutal murderous regime which is deeply hated by their own people. You seem to make this same curious error over and over again, equating any concern about China's stability and potential disruptions to the west if that stability were to be disrupted with love of the CCP. You seem to have swallowed the CCP propaganda hook, line and sinker. The CCP keeps spouting this same B.S. over and over again. I guess if it is repeated often enough people, like you, will believe it. This is a big insult to the Chinese people. The Chinese people don't need the CCP. In fact the opposite is true! I doubt most westerners love the CCP, I sure don't. But it's the only thing holding the country together. Like I said, China has a long, bloody history of warlordism and civil war, and any collapse of the CCP might bring a return to the bad old days. This bad situation-a brutal dictatorship being the only thing keeping the world's most populous country from sliding into chaos-is exacerbated greatly by the fact that China now has virtually ALL of the world's industrial capacity. There is no more industrial base in America, Europe, Japan. It's all been moved to China. I'm sorry old boy, but this is pure garbage and sounds very much like what is written in the CCP run newspapers in Beijing - I'm not joking. There are many able countries that will quikely and happilly "tool up" to fill American orders for product. Prices may rise but to what degree will be determined by the marketplace as it should. That assumes that there will be some kind of collapse of its manufacturing base. That is highly unlikely considering the involvement of western interests and western company presence. If China descends into chaos the rest of the world will go with it. Blame your beloved capitalists for being too willing to cozy up to a regime that could be toppled by a mass movement like Falun Gong and that allows massive pollution and 10 cent a day wages. Ah ha! Now you are talking! Those big bad Capitalists again. LOL I'll go on a political limb here and will tell you this much. Had dear leader Nixon and Kissinger NOT reproached Deng Xiaoping to "open up", the USSR would still be in existence today. Why? Because the USSR would likely be profiting from China's growth all this time. Albeit not as robust. Deng Xiaoping knew China had to open up to avoid an economic disaster that we now see in N.Korea. If the US wasn't economically friendly with China it would have looked elsewhere and anywhere to accomplish this economic goal. China would have solicited economic development from any CCP friendly country including our enemies. N.Korea is an example of this idea - selling missile technology (from China likely) to Pakistan, Iran and Syria. Money counterfeiting and drug trafficking to name a few. Hardly a comforting alternative to the west. Nixon and Kissinger knew this and made a brilliant move by isolating the USSR. *** The idea to engage China is a valid one. However, the moral and ethical degree to which this engagement has progressed by the Capitalists is now questionable in my opinion. *** I think that there is now some realization of this within the US House and Senate. If the N.Korean side of the DMZ becomes demilitarized because of a regime colapse you can be sure that waves of refugees will find a way across or around it. China would also see refugees. Maybe to start with there would be a lot of North Koreans attempting to cross, but it might die down after a while. There was no massive refugee crisis when European Communism collapsed. Most of the East Germans who fled into West Berlin right after the wall came down eventually went back home. I would suspect that after a reunification on the peninsula the phenomenon will likely repeat itself there. Unemployment will rise and the deficit will rise. It will be a difficult time for the Koreans but not impossible. ref: Germany. I didn't say that another centralized dictatorship would take hold, I said that the country would descend into warlord rule and possibly civil war. There is a difference. After a reconsiliation with the South I highly doubt there will be widespread civil unrest. These people have been under Dear Leaders thumb for a very long time and would have very little resources or even a will to pull it off. But I don't think that it would trigger a western invasion of NK. There won't be a "military" invasion. There will likely be some kind of Korean - Chinese - Japanese - Russian & US cooperation with UN involvment and guidance. Has it occured to you that whomever overthrows Kim Jong Il may well be "friendly" with the South? You're assuming that a pro Western ruler replaces Kim. But I'm saying that no ruler may replace Kim, that NK would break up instead, and that would likely be much worse than a pro West regime in the North being toppled by the Chinese. What I am saying is that there is some evidence of certain elements in the N.Korean military which would like to remove Dear Leader. These elements seem to be aware of N.Korea's economic predicament and are more willing to reproach the south with fewer conditions than Dear Leader impresses. As I said earlier the Dear Leader is a proxy, puppet if you will, of China. It is certainly clear. As China has all the strings neccessary to "pull the plug" on Dear Leader but refuses to do so as evidenced in the latest "round of talks". This is clear indication of a certain level of resistance within the CCP towards a pro-South reunification outcome. A reminder - recall the recent massive railroad station explosion which occured within hours after the Dear Leaders return from Beijing. The Dear Leader is afraid to fly! Should make you ponder. It's possible, but there would be enough loyalists to go ahead with the Bomb drop and force a US invasion. In which case the US would have a green light - not something China wishes to contend with I am sure you will agree. In any case, nuclear weapons aside, the Korean peninsular would become the immediate focus of attention in the West and Beijing and Seoul would have many urgent and pressing meetings to attend. This at least is true. |
A reminder - recall the recent massive railroad station explosion near
Pyongyang which occured within hours after the Dear Leader had passed through that very same railroad station upon his return from Beijing. The Dear Leader is afraid to fly! Should make you ponder. |
I did some flying in some fixed wing Aircraft and Helicopters when I was
in the Army,but I didn't like it.(the flying,that is) So,I guess I am afraid of flying too.My feet are meant for staying on the ground. cuhulin |
H. Dziardziel wrote in
: Thanks for the translation. I had no chance in obtaining it otherwise, as I don't even have the fonts necessary to express it for the online translation sites, let alone that the sentences are part of an image and not text available for copy to the clipboard. Regards. Dr. Artaud Roughly as follows, and since it takes effort to translate the manga histronics of the slogans I probably won't do more or comment more about anything beyond this email unless radio related. Top slogan: Against oppression -- a mighty blow i.e., smash US's oppression of us with a crushing assualt or strike Bottom: Against castigation -- ruthless beating, i.e., merciless punishment for the way we are derided and treated. These are Chinese character derived so although simple syllables are saturated with varied meanings that cannot be simply translated into another language except Chinese or Japanese.. By the way, North Koreans live and breathe these slogans. They fervently believe them and will gladly die for them, especially the troops and average person. . |
All this talk of China and North Korea collapse is becoming crap.
5 years ago, i might have believed it (i even took a brief look at the book by some Gordon... talking about China's impending collapse), but looking at the way progress is going on in both North Korea and China, it will be irrational to believe in a collapse. Economic reforms will always satisfy a greater proportion of the population than political reforms. Just look at the case of Singapore, where there is less political freedom than even China, where people can't join another political party without destroying their lives and career, where the country is ruled by one family, but 50,000 Americans live happily as expatriates in the country, and hundreds of American companies, like HP and Exxon have billion dollar factories in the country. If anyone wants to champion freedom, first talk about Singapore and its American allies. Virtually no one in Singapore, local (myself included) or foriegner is interested in political freedom at the expense of money and livelihood. This is a fact of life. |
HELL,LET THEM COLLASPE!
cuhulin |
singapore TOO!
cuhulin |
hp? You mean hewlett packard? LET THEM COLLASPE TOO! That Bitch! carly
fiorina who used to be a big hotshot at hewlett packard once said Americans do not have a right to have jobs. cuhulin |
No one will collapse, because America needs free trade and to enforce
IP rights more than ideology. The massive Chinese market for American exports is more important than any ideology. Money wins at the end of the day. I visited China first in 1990 when economic reforms just started, and everywhere was drab. The next time i returned was 13 years later, and it has become a different country. You can view the development in smaller Chinese cities - a proud chinese put up city photos of some 200 Chinese cities - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=175183 (Take note of traffic as well). Assuming that each city has a population of 2 million, that covers 400 million people. World media (especially American media such as CNN) do not show the reality of what is happening in China...It's time for education. |
I visited China twice in 1964.At Hong Kong Airport,our Airplane (Pan Am
Blueball) picked up some passengers and refueled and again about six months later,my five days R&R in Hong Kong and I got me some Chinese pussy too.Free trade,nafta,gatt,outsourcing,that's a lot of what is wrong with Ameica now.LET THEM MOTHER****ERS COLLASPE! cuhulin |
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