White Smoke
 

WLS in Chicago is reporting White Smoke from the Vatican


dxAce
Michigan
USA

Of course,White Smoke means they have decided/voted on who the next Pope
will be.
cuhulin

dxAce wrote:

WLS in Chicago is reporting White Smoke from the Vatican

He is a great man... I see it in his eyes.



dxAce
Michigan
USA

And from the world of instant internet communications german Cardinal
Ratzinger is the new pope. Too bad they can't break away from
europeans.....

John S. wrote:

And from the world of instant internet communications german Cardinal
Ratzinger is the new pope. Too bad they can't break away from
europeans.....


The Catholic Church is very slow to change. For 500 years the
"tradition" was that an Italian always got the job. In 1978 that
tradition was broken when a Pole (JP2) was elected. This is the first
election in 26 years, and I found it highly unlikely that a Latino or
African would be elected, despite the fact that the Church is growing
fast in Latin America and Africa while it is shrinking in North America
and Europe. I think it's sad that Catholicism can't change with the
times, not doctrinally but in the good ole European boy network, and it
might be the death of the Church eventually.


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running dogg wrote:

John S. wrote:

And from the world of instant internet communications german Cardinal
Ratzinger is the new pope. Too bad they can't break away from
europeans.....


The Catholic Church is very slow to change. For 500 years the
"tradition" was that an Italian always got the job. In 1978 that
tradition was broken when a Pole (JP2) was elected. This is the first
election in 26 years, and I found it highly unlikely that a Latino or
African would be elected, despite the fact that the Church is growing
fast in Latin America and Africa while it is shrinking in North America
and Europe. I think it's sad that Catholicism can't change with the
times, not doctrinally but in the good ole European boy network, and it
might be the death of the Church eventually.

So even though they probably looked at who best to do the job they should have cast
that notion away and been more 'PC'? At least in your eyes?

dxAce
Michigan
USA

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:57:48 -0400, dxAce
wrote:

Check out the demon on the Pope's stick:

http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1359.cfm

Demon? That's Jesus Christ on the crucifix, you moron. And no, I'm not
Catholic.

David wrote:
On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:57:48 -0400, dxAce
wrote:

Check out the demon on the Pope's stick:

http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1359.cfm

I think that choosing a Pope from South or Central America would have
helped the church in more than one way.

First it would signal to the world that the church is not as closed to
something as radical as a non-european pope. Seems kind of strange to
characterize such a change a radical when other religions include
females as a matter of course.

Second, it would have helped the church with membership in Brazil and
other south american countries where membership has been lost to more
open non-catholic religions.

Frankly, as a person who does not approve of the stodginess of the
Catholic Church anyway, I am happy to see it do anything to itself that
will alienate people. There are other effective ways to approach God
and Christianity, and they don't necessarily involve living in poverty
while the Vatican hoardes massive funds and begs adherents to keep that
cycle of poverty and pain going by pumping out endless children.

Jean-Paul was a kind man; the new Pope may be likewise - but their
ancient and artificial (and largely hypocritical) ways do not mesh well
with the realities of 2005's wider world. I say, let the Church
collapse on itself.

Bruce Jensen

"dxAce" wrote:

So even though they probably looked at who best to do the job they should
have cast
that notion away and been more 'PC'? At least in your eyes?

dxAce
Michigan
USA

If that's what he's saying (though I'm not saying he IS saying that), I
wouldn't
be surprised. I was stunned at the number of commentators who said with
perfect certitude, "The next Pope must be more flexible, and open." Open
to WHAT?, I ask? What a load of shyte.

Pope Benedict XVI will, I believe, be a good Pope, and that's more important
than being a *great* Pope. He reveres tradition and dogma, and that's the
only
thing the Church has in its favor today.

I'm surprised that no one has ever considered that the scandals encircling
the
Church today is due to the liberalization and modernization of the Church?
Has anyone here, under the age of 50, ever spent a week in a seminary?
I have. One month, in fact, and the permissivity I witnessed there could be
one possible explanation for the fact that roughly 3 out of every 4
seminarians
were open, avowed homosexuals. Here's the stunning part - Their Bishop
knew! That kind of licentiousness might (hopefully) be dealt with by
Benedict
XVI. That's my prayer, at least. You are right, Steve. He is a good man,
and importantly, a STRONG man. Half the Church turned their back on him
when he said, twenty years ago, "There is much filth in the Church." If
we'd
listened, perhaps we could have cured the disease sooner.

73,

Steve

--
Steve Lawrence
Burnsville, Minnesota

Every moment of a human life is an act of worship.

Coincidence is God's way of being anonymous.

--
Steve Lawrence
Burnsville, Minnesota

Every moment of a human life is an act of worship.

Coincidence is God's way of being anonymous.

I'm very happy with the man the Cardinals chose.

Ratzinger is a man who understands that truth is not
subject to public opinion, and who refuses to do a
thing simply because that thing is in fashion.

We need more men (and women) like him.

73,

Steve

--
Steve Lawrence
Burnsville, Minnesota

Every moment of a human life is an act of worship.

Coincidence is God's way of being anonymous.

"John S." wrote in message
oups.com...
I think that choosing a Pope from South or Central America would have
helped the church in more than one way.

First it would signal to the world that the church is not as closed to
something as radical as a non-european pope. Seems kind of strange to
characterize such a change a radical when other religions include
females as a matter of course.

Second, it would have helped the church with membership in Brazil and
other south american countries where membership has been lost to more
open non-catholic religions.

"bpnjensen" wrote in message
oups.com...
Frankly, as a person who does not approve of the stodginess of the
Catholic Church anyway, I am happy to see it do anything to itself that
will alienate people. There are other effective ways to approach God
and Christianity, and they don't necessarily involve living in poverty
while the Vatican hoardes massive funds and begs adherents to keep that
cycle of poverty and pain going by pumping out endless children.

Jean-Paul was a kind man; the new Pope may be likewise - but their
ancient and artificial (and largely hypocritical) ways do not mesh well
with the realities of 2005's wider world. I say, let the Church
collapse on itself.

Bruce Jensen

So, I take it you are one of those people who thinks fashion and opinion
is more important than truth, and that truth should be subjec to the way
you "feel," and the mood you're in at any given moment? Fortunately,
there are men with strength who will, perhaps, die trying to prevent that.

Your kindness and sense of compassion and liberal open-mindedness have
been duly noted.

Benedict XVI had to pause a moment before speaking today because the
homosexuals booed and jeered him, yet I'm sure he'll refuse to bow to them.

I have to wonder: If someone is a Sodomite, and they want a Catholic-like
church, why don't they simply make their own faith, and find their own way?

I'd say that rather than permitting the collapse of the Church, they have
done
much to attempt to destroy it.

73,

Steve

--
Steve Lawrence
Burnsville, Minnesota

Every moment of a human life is an act of worship.

Coincidence is God's way of being anonymous.

"We need more men (and women) like him."

I doubt that under this pope you will see women and men in equivalent
positions within the church, if that was what you meant by the
parenthetical reference to women.

"John S." wrote in message
oups.com...
"We need more men (and women) like him."

I doubt that under this pope you will see women and men in equivalent
positions within the church, if that was what you meant by the
parenthetical reference to women.

When I said we need more men and women like him,
I meant to say that society would benefit from people
with greater reverence for tradition. I am, myself, a
traditionalist and a conservative, for what it's worth.

I may disagree with some of the things I see in the
Church, but I acknowledge the Church's right to
do things as She sees fit.

73,

Steve

Steve Lawrence
Burnsville, Minnesota

Every moment of a human life is an act
of worship.

Coincidence is God's way of being anonymous.

"David" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:57:48 -0400, dxAce
wrote:

Check out the demon on the Pope's stick:

http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1359.cfm

HAAHA. That site would make Alex Jones cringe.

Interesting characterization of gender given the church will not
consider placing women in any position of responsibility.

Ratzinger is a man who understands that truth is not
subject to public opinion, and who refuses to do a
thing simply because that thing is in fashion.

Yeah, like that Hitler Youth outfit he was in many moons ago - nothing
fashionable or expedient about that - only Truth.

I am being facetious here - at this point in his life and given the
high probability that he was totally innocent of any war crimes, it is
unimportant - but like any other human, he has no monopoly on Truth.
Let us hope he has the wisdom to be just.

Bruce Jensen

Steve wrote:

So, I take it you are one of those people who thinks fashion and
opinion
is more important than truth, and that truth should be subjec to the
way
you "feel," and the mood you're in at any given moment?

Nope - that's not at all what I said, nor what I meant.

Pope and Church have no monopoly on the Truth. They do have a good deal
of artifice, however, much of which does not match Christ's example.
The poor get poorer, the earth gets more overrun with sick humans at
the expense of all other life - that's the truth. That's the legacy,
in part, of the Catholic Church.

Fortunately, there are men with strength who will, perhaps, die
trying to prevent that.

Objection, your Honor - relevance.

Your kindness and sense of compassion and liberal open-mindedness
have
been duly noted.

Thanks. Compassion is in short supply these days. Doesn't take a
liberal to be compasisonate, just a human with a working ticker.

Benedict XVI had to pause a moment before speaking today because the
homosexuals booed and jeered him, yet I'm sure he'll refuse to bow to
them.

That's fine, and warranted.

I have to wonder: If someone is a Sodomite, and they want a
Catholic-like
church, why don't they simply make their own faith, and find their own
way?

I agree. I would not hang around where I was not wanted either.

I'd say that rather than permitting the collapse of the Church, they
have
done much to attempt to destroy it.

I doubt it. There are still about 1 x 10^9 Catholics in this world -
that's hardly a struggling Church.

Bruce Jensen

When I said we need more men and women like him,
I meant to say that society would benefit from people
with greater reverence for tradition. I am, myself, a
traditionalist and a conservative, for what it's worth.

Tradition can be good or bad. There are many positive traditions, and
we celebrate many of them in our holidays. But - there is a dark side
too.

Tradition in some places holds that young men and women can be
betrothed to each other even if they are impossibly mismatched. Female
circumcision is traditional in some African nations, where the western
world would call it misogyny and brutality against women. Slavery was
traditional for millenia. Bigotry is traditional, and still holds sway
in many places on this planet. It is traditional for the rich to rule
the poor, the mighty to rule the weak, which of course goes against the
supreme law of the United States (even as the current leadership
attempts to bring it back - and I don't mean just Republicans either).

The Founders of the U.S. started several new ideas that were not
traditional at the time - sometimes, we have to carefully define what a
tradition is, lest we deceive ourselves.

Traditions are not infallible or universal or right - and we owe it to
our descendants to pick and choose those that are just, decent and
wise, while rejecting those that demean, brutalize, persecute and
ostracize.

Bruce Jensen

Steve wrote:

So, I take it you are one of those people who thinks fashion and
opinion
is more important than truth, and that truth should be subjec to the
way
you "feel," and the mood you're in at any given moment? Fortunately,
there are men with strength who will, perhaps, die trying to prevent
that.

You read me wrong, sir. I believe that the Catholic Church has no
monopoly on the truth at all, never had, maybe never will, although
they have a stranglehold on their adherents. I don't believe that,
through all of their artificial trappings and (IMO) weird cult-like
approaches to Christianity, they come close to what Jesus would have
wanted. I also believe that, like any human institution, it is
corrupted beyond what St. Peter originally intended. I also happen to
believe, regardless of fashion, that they are simply wrong.

As far as your last sentence goes, I see no relevance to this topic.
At least, I cannot see any martyr wars breaking out in the Catholic
Church.

Your kindness and sense of compassion and liberal open-mindedness
have
been duly noted.

Thanks - Compassion (along with courage and wisdom), more than anything
else, is what the world seems to lack most these days. It doesn't take
a liberal to feel sorrow or compassion for those living in misery, by
the way - only a human being whose heart still ticks.

Benedict XVI had to pause a moment before speaking today because the
homosexuals booed and jeered him, yet I'm sure he'll refuse to bow to
them.

Well, that's fine, they deserved it, and the gays don't have to be
Catholics either...however, I would not live with a bunch of
mythological made-up crap either. However, if you can point out one
place where Jesus condemns a single man for being intimate with
another, or woman with woman, I will tell all the gays I know to repent
instantly and live a life contrary to the fibers of their beings (which
God arguably built into them).

Frankly, I do not care whether gays are in the Catholic Church or not.
It is not relevant to the damaging effects the Church continues to have
on the poor and the ecology of this planet

I have to wonder: If someone is a Sodomite, and they want a
Catholic-like
church, why don't they simply make their own faith, and find their own
way?

I agree.

I'd say that rather than permitting the collapse of the Church, they
have
done much to attempt to destroy it.

I disagree. Through their actions, they only make themselves outcasts.
The Church is wealthy enough to persist on its own.

I also think that the topic of sodomy and etc. is unimportant. It is a
side topic that, as long as only 8-10% of the world is gay, will not
become key.

I am done.

Bruce Jensen

"Stephen M.H. Lawrence" wrote in message
...

Benedict XVI had to pause a moment before speaking today because the
homosexuals booed and jeered him, yet I'm sure he'll refuse to bow to
them.

Funny. I was listening in on the radio, and I must have missed that somehow.
The commentators seem to have missed it as well; they didn't mention it.

Yeah, they should have picked a mainland Chinese from the underground
Catholic church there.
That would have stuck a staff up those Chi-Com's A-hole real good - LOL!

"John S." wrote in message
oups.com...
And from the world of instant internet communications german Cardinal
Ratzinger is the new pope. Too bad they can't break away from
europeans.....

bpnjensen wrote:

I doubt it. There are still about 1 x 10^9 Catholics in this world -
that's hardly a struggling Church.


So, you're baptized as a baby before you have any sins to wash away
and your name is added to their list of members. The only way out is to
be excommunicated, but they still count people who never willingly
stepped foot into a service as members?

--
Former professional electron wrangler.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

SMHL,

RHF schrieb:

....may the new pope be a servant of god's will ~ RHF

I hardly believe this dogmatic inquisitory man is a true believer in god
at all.
Nontheless he may become a 'God's tool' of some kind.....

Screwdriver/ Germany

Article at www.boingboing.net says,New pope is former hitler
youth.I only posted the website,read the article and form your own
opinion's.
cuhulin

wrote:

Article at www.boingboing.net says,New pope is former hitler
youth.I only posted the website,read the article and form your own
opinion's.

Wasn't Hitler Youth membership compulsory?

dxAce
Michigan
USA

I went to www.dogpile.com and asked that same question.There is
plenty of information there about that.
cuhulin

SMHL,

Robert Osborne is a movie narator at TCM on tv. (Turner Classic Movies)
One night after I had finished watching The Boat movie on TCM,Robert
Osborne said Kurt Jergens (Kurt Jergens played the part of the German
Captain on the German Submarine in that movie,I saw the movie when it
first came out many years before the movie came on tv ,Robert Mitchum
played the part of the American Captain on the American U.S.Navy Ship)
sat out World War Two in a German prison because Kurt Jergens disgreed
with hitler's policies.Whenever The Boat movie is on tv and those dudes
are sitting around in the German Submarine and reading books and
magazines and comic books (one of the books is Mein Kampf) and Kurt
Jergens is gazing around at them with that smirk on his mug,I always
find that amusing.Do I like the new Pope? I don't know yet,time will
tell.
cuhulin

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


wrote:

Article at www.boingboing.net says,New pope is former hitler
youth.I only posted the website,read the article and form your own
opinion's.

Wasn't Hitler Youth membership compulsory?

dxAce
Michigan
USA

Yes, it absolutely was (to answer the unanswered question)

73,


--
Steve Lawrence
Burnsville, Minnesota

Every moment of a human life is an act
of worship.

Coincidence is God's way of being anonymous.

One final thought on tradition - the only true tradition of
Christianity, really, is the following dictum in two parts:

1 - Love God with all your heart and soul; and
2 - Accept Jesus as your personal savior.

All the rest, including Catholic tradition and artifice, is window
dressing.

Bruce Jensen

I am Methodist,I always have been,I always will be.Now,go ahead and bash
the Methodist Church if you want to.It doesn't bother me at all.I will
not get into any arguments about Religion.
cuhulin

On 19 Apr 2005 11:20:54 -0700, "Invader3K"
wrote:

Demon? That's Jesus Christ on the crucifix, you moron. And no, I'm not
Catholic.

David wrote:
On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:57:48 -0400, dxAce
wrote:

Check out the demon on the Pope's stick:

http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1359.cfm

An H.. R. Giger version perhaps. Look more carefully.

http://www.hrgiger.com/

Cuhulin wrote:

I am Methodist,I always have been,I always will be.Now,go ahead and
bash
the Methodist Church if you want to.It doesn't bother me at all.I will
not get into any arguments about Religion.
cuhulin

You may be interested to know that my family is Methodist as well. It
has its trappings and artifice too, but it's far less ostentatious and
imposing than Catholic tradition, and at each sermon, the overwhelming
message is that God loves all, and that each of us should accept Jesus
as our savior, recognize the goodness of God, and help spread the good
Word. One needn't go to confessional to confess or seek Jesus through
the clerics - each of us can have a personal, direct relationship with
the Almighty.

Intolerance is not part of Methodism, as far as I can tell.

Bruce Jensen

America does not have any official Holidays.
cuhulin

"bpnjensen" wrote in message
oups.com...
the fundies-the "Christians" who spew hate at everybody
who doesn't believe exactly as they do

isn't this in and of itself a hate filled statement ? ~ RHF

More like an observation, with some subjective translation to the
printed word.

Bruce Jensen

Perhaps I am wrong, but I was laboring under the belief that
the word "Fundies" is a derisive slur for fundamentalist Christians.

73,

Steve

--
Steve Lawrence
Burnsville, Minnesota

Every moment of a human life is an act of worship.

Coincidence is God's way of being anonymous.

"Stephen M.H. Lawrence" wrote:

Perhaps I am wrong, but I was laboring under the belief that
the word "Fundies" is a derisive slur for fundamentalist Christians.


Some people use it to paint all Christians with a broad brush and
condemn anyone with faith and beliefs. You should see some of the rants
on the electronics newsgroups where we are referred to as "Rabid
fundies". Then they blame every problem in the world on Christians and
claim the world would be perfect if we were all dead.

--
Former professional electron wrangler.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

Some people use it to paint all Christians with a broad brush and
condemn anyone with faith and beliefs. You should see some of the rants
on the electronics newsgroups where we are referred to as "Rabid
fundies". Then they blame every problem in the world on Christians and
claim the world would be perfect if we were all dead.

Wow. Nice people. Honest musing he I wonder how many of them
have crappy lives, and blame God for everything? I admire anyone,
Christian or not, who has wrestled and wrangled with questions of being,
faith, the world, and the meaning of life (for lack of a less-hackneyed
phrase),
but can't bear the in-your-face stridency that I see from those who blame
Christians for everything -- Just about as much as it sickens me to see
the weak sister pseudoChristians in the world. (I'll bet money you know
a few of 'em - I certainly do).

73,

Steve

--
Steve Lawrence
Burnsville, Minnesota

Every moment of a human life is an act of worship.

Coincidence is God's way of being anonymous.