In article ,
Li,Chanchun wrote:

"uncle arnie" wrote

You forgot to say that the CIA trained bin Laden.


Another internet myth that refuses to die.




Agreed. During the Anti-soviet era OBL was a funds raiser, a
recruiter and later used his experience in the family construction
business to build the cave fortresses we hear about. Some of that was
front-line work and he earned his chops and impressed the fighters.
Essentially all western aid to the mujahideen was done through the PAK
secret service (at PAK's insistance) and most Afghanis and mujahideen
to this day think they kicked the Russians out by themselves with aid
only from Arab and Muslim assistance.

When SH invaded Kuwait OBL went to the the Saudi Royals and asked to
be allowed (and funded) to oust SH (an unbeliever) from Kuwait
(believers) without the help of the Americans who he disliked but had
not attacked, yet. Saudis allowd US into the the Muslim holy land and
OBL went on the warpath against Americans and declared the Saudi royal
family to be unbelievers and started to attack them, and us.

BTW: Under Bush we've pulled out of SA. The terrorist think they'v won
that battle.

Source: _Ghostwars : the secret history of the CIA, Afghanistan, and
bin Laden, from the Soviet invasion to September 10, 2001_
by Coll, Steve.

--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.

Al Dykes wrote:

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.

Typical loser...

How many times have you, and those who hold your ridiculous beliefs backed the
losing team?

dxAce
Michigan
USA

In article ,
Li,Chanchun wrote:

"uncle arnie" wrote

China and Russia are not allies.


Really? You don't read enough. Perhaps the largest ever joint military
exercise scheduled between these two countries in the Pacific this summer
will convice you otherwise. They are certainly not US allies.



How many blue water ships does Russia have these days? I can't
believe that added up, all their ships would equal some large joint
NATO excercise. Besides, size (number of ships) isn't everything.

I think an India-China axis in reaction to a Muslinist PAK with a
nuke bomb is the scariest scenario.

We lived for 50 years with 40,000 Russian nukes pointed at us. If we
stay smart we can work with them.


:-)


Interests of the US will be damaged in the long run by supporting such
regimes.

Just as the US supports China economically?




--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.

In article ,
dxAce wrote:

Al Dykes wrote:

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.

Typical loser...

How many times have you, and those who hold your ridiculous beliefs backed the
losing team?

Some people around here still have Kerry / Edwards bumper stickers on
their cars.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

In article ,
Mark Zenier wrote:
In article , Al Dykes wrote:
In article ,
uncle arnie wrote:
USA has a staunch ally in the dictator of Uzbekistan, Islam Karimov. Like
Saddam, Pinochet, the Shah of Iran, Samoza, and many others, Karimov
sponsors torture and massacres of his own people. He has succeeded in
pushing the traditional Sufi version of Islam toward fundamentalism. 1,000
unarmed were killed on 13 May 2005. We'll hear alot more about this
country in the future, unless a better understanding of how anger at a
brutal regime propped up by a foreign power can fertilise overseas violence
and terror. Can't understand how this simple lesson is not learned.


A couple months ago, long before the recent mass murder, Economists
Magazine nominated him the second worst dictator in the world. Second
only to Kim Jong Il in NK.

That's probably Turkmenistan, not Uzbekistan. It's getting to the
point where you can't tell those central asian dictatorships apart.

Mark Zenier Washington State resident



You are right, of course. I just confirmed it in someting I wrote
right after I read the issue. Thanks.

--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.

Al Dykes wrote:

In article ,
Mark Zenier wrote:
In article , Al Dykes wrote:
In article ,
uncle arnie wrote:
USA has a staunch ally in the dictator of Uzbekistan, Islam Karimov. Like
Saddam, Pinochet, the Shah of Iran, Samoza, and many others, Karimov
sponsors torture and massacres of his own people. He has succeeded in
pushing the traditional Sufi version of Islam toward fundamentalism. 1,000
unarmed were killed on 13 May 2005. We'll hear alot more about this
country in the future, unless a better understanding of how anger at a
brutal regime propped up by a foreign power can fertilise overseas violence
and terror. Can't understand how this simple lesson is not learned.


A couple months ago, long before the recent mass murder, Economists
Magazine nominated him the second worst dictator in the world. Second
only to Kim Jong Il in NK.

That's probably Turkmenistan, not Uzbekistan. It's getting to the
point where you can't tell those central asian dictatorships apart.

Mark Zenier Washington State resident


You are right, of course. I just confirmed it in someting I wrote
right after I read the issue. Thanks.

Al is often wrong... best to ignore him!

His mission after all is simply to rant and bitch about Bush and/or the USA,
whether he has the facts behind him or not.

Go tote it Al.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

dxAce wrote:

Al Dykes wrote:

In article ,
Mark Zenier wrote:
In article , Al Dykes wrote:
In article ,
uncle arnie wrote:
USA has a staunch ally in the dictator of Uzbekistan, Islam Karimov. Like
Saddam, Pinochet, the Shah of Iran, Samoza, and many others, Karimov
sponsors torture and massacres of his own people. He has succeeded in
pushing the traditional Sufi version of Islam toward fundamentalism. 1,000
unarmed were killed on 13 May 2005. We'll hear alot more about this
country in the future, unless a better understanding of how anger at a
brutal regime propped up by a foreign power can fertilise overseas violence
and terror. Can't understand how this simple lesson is not learned.


A couple months ago, long before the recent mass murder, Economists
Magazine nominated him the second worst dictator in the world. Second
only to Kim Jong Il in NK.

That's probably Turkmenistan, not Uzbekistan. It's getting to the
point where you can't tell those central asian dictatorships apart.

Mark Zenier Washington State resident


You are right, of course. I just confirmed it in someting I wrote
right after I read the issue. Thanks.

Al is often wrong... best to ignore him!

His mission after all is simply to rant and bitch about Bush and/or the USA,
whether he has the facts behind him or not.

Damn.. I forgot to toss in the fact that he's a Liberal 'tard!

Go tote it Al.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

Telamon wrote:

In article ,
dxAce wrote:

Al Dykes wrote:

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.

Typical loser...

How many times have you, and those who hold your ridiculous beliefs backed the
losing team?

Some people around here still have Kerry / Edwards bumper stickers on
their cars.

Have you ever tried to remove a bumper sticker from your car? It's damn
near impossible. I once stuck a Darwin Fish on my car, and when I got
rid of the car I had to pry it off. It made a horrible mess.


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Li,Chanchun wrote:


"uncle arnie" wrote in
Can't understand how this simple lesson is not learned.

In a geo-strategic oil producing location such as Uzbekistan it is
absolutely vital to the interests of the U.S.
The alternative is a stranglehold by Communist China and its ally Russia.

It's funny that when I defended Westerners doing business with China as
a business proposition disconnected from politics, you called me all
sorts of names and accused me of being a nazi. But when Arnie points out
that US support for dictatorships such as Uzbekistan can actually harm
our interests in the long run (look what supporting the Shah got us) you
say that supporting a dictatorship is vital to our interests, and better
us than China. While it may be true that Uzbekistan is strategically
important, supporting that dictatorship goes against Bush's hypocritical
"let freedom ring" rhetoric as well as your own desire for China to be
free and democratic. If democracy is good enough for the US, and a
desirable outcome for China and NK, then why not the Uzbeks? Or are they
not important, expendable in the cause of wealthier, more powerful
nations?


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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

"running dogg" wrote

Have you ever tried to remove a bumper sticker from your car? It's damn
near impossible. I once stuck a Darwin Fish on my car, and when I got
rid of the car I had to pry it off. It made a horrible mess.


Warm it up real good with a hot blast from a hair dryer.
Works on the dealer's ad stickers to.