"John Smith" wrote:

... those are NOT American citizens, they are enemies of Americans...
they ain't got NO rights...

The 14th amendment says otherwise... "Equal protection under the law."
and there is case law and Supreme Court rulings to back that up.

....know your constitution... some day, it may save *your* sorry ass.

John
"m II" wrote in message
news:Hkrre.62936$tt5.56979@edtnps90...
Brian Hill wrote:

Not only that Brenda but we sure don't want to live in a society that
convicts on less than reasonable doubt.

Remember Quantanamo? The White House said that even if they were all
found innocent, they STILL wouldn't be released. Either you have
justice or you don't. Why is the government immune from the law?




mike

m II wrote:
Brian Hill wrote:

Not only that Brenda but we sure don't want to live in a society that
convicts on less than reasonable doubt.



Remember Quantanamo? The White House said that even if they were all
found innocent, they STILL wouldn't be released. Either you have justice
or you don't. Why is the government immune from the law?




mike


Well Mike....let's put you out in the field with the soldiers; and some
radical extremist are leveling AK-47, RPG, and other heavy Chinese made
mortars at your men and yourself....welcome to war! Would the USA
declaring war on Afghanistan induced you to voluntairly enlist to
defend your country...probably not, as a former "patriotic, politically
correct" group did after Pearl Harbor....we went to war on a bare
majority vote.

Second, would you prefer that we killed them all in the field, or in a
sealed semi-trailer as the locals did when they captured them??? Or
better yet, try sorting out the local population from the foreign
fighters there....we at least stopped them from bashing in the heads of
the people in the stadiums, and other "civilized" behavior.
Bottom-line...war declared or otherwise is all about kill or be killed.
It is easy to sit back and preach "legality" but if you lived and
worked overseas like I and other Americans do for the government or
industry under the US State Department guise, you would know that we
have little to no rights.

Third, to gather intelligence from these disparate anarchists groups
takes time....and after some have given up the truth or have been
verified as standbyers, we have released them to their parent
countries. The ones left in "Gitmo" are there for good reasons...in our
jail system we have parole boards...most time the hardened criminals
stay put unlike the European prison model that "rehabs" them and
forgives their crime completely (most of the police in Italy have been
minor criminals...try that in the USA,,,once convicted, always a
criminal).

Since these "foreign fighters" were not under their parent countries
command, they are caught between the international criminal code...or
if under the Afghan government's control (Taliban at the time), then
they are prisoners of war, or war criminals. The fact is that the
Taliban government kept their status secret as their means of external
support...therefore they are in limbo. Now maybe we could release them
under and work-release program in your town, and you could babysit them
until they start killing Americans again!!!

If you and others feel guilty about Gitmo, then feel guilty for
re-electing a President who blew-off intel reports, and who's only
reaction to terrorists' actions was a few miserably targeted cruise
missiles (we got a pharamaceutical factory, but missed Bin Laden's bank
in he Sudan).

Joe (I've been and am there!!!)

" wrote:



m II wrote:
Brian Hill wrote:

Not only that Brenda but we sure don't want to live in a society that
convicts on less than reasonable doubt.



Remember Quantanamo? The White House said that even if they were all
found innocent, they STILL wouldn't be released. Either you have justice
or you don't. Why is the government immune from the law?




mike


Well Mike....let's put you out in the field with the soldiers; and some
radical extremist are leveling AK-47, RPG, and other heavy Chinese made
mortars at your men and yourself....welcome to war! Would the USA
declaring war on Afghanistan induced you to voluntairly enlist to
defend your country...probably not, as a former "patriotic, politically
correct" group did after Pearl Harbor....we went to war on a bare
majority vote.

Second, would you prefer that we killed them all in the field, or in a
sealed semi-trailer as the locals did when they captured them??? Or
better yet, try sorting out the local population from the foreign
fighters there....we at least stopped them from bashing in the heads of
the people in the stadiums, and other "civilized" behavior.
Bottom-line...war declared or otherwise is all about kill or be killed.
It is easy to sit back and preach "legality" but if you lived and
worked overseas like I and other Americans do for the government or
industry under the US State Department guise, you would know that we
have little to no rights.

Third, to gather intelligence from these disparate anarchists groups
takes time....and after some have given up the truth or have been
verified as standbyers, we have released them to their parent
countries. The ones left in "Gitmo" are there for good reasons...in our
jail system we have parole boards...most time the hardened criminals
stay put unlike the European prison model that "rehabs" them and
forgives their crime completely (most of the police in Italy have been
minor criminals...try that in the USA,,,once convicted, always a
criminal).

Since these "foreign fighters" were not under their parent countries
command, they are caught between the international criminal code...or
if under the Afghan government's control (Taliban at the time), then
they are prisoners of war, or war criminals. The fact is that the
Taliban government kept their status secret as their means of external
support...therefore they are in limbo. Now maybe we could release them
under and work-release program in your town, and you could babysit them
until they start killing Americans again!!!

If you and others feel guilty about Gitmo, then feel guilty for
re-electing a President who blew-off intel reports, and who's only
reaction to terrorists' actions was a few miserably targeted cruise
missiles (we got a pharamaceutical factory, but missed Bin Laden's bank
in he Sudan).

Joe (I've been and am there!!!)

Joe,

First off, thanks for being there.

Second off, mII is a canadian bomb thrower. He really needs to get a
life since what he has now is only just an obsessive hatred of the
U.S. He didn't vote for anyone here.

Third... I, for one, am NOT disputing the needs to defend yourself on
a battlefield, and am frankly appalled that lawyers are consulted
whenever missions are planned back here in the Five Sided Funny Farm.

But Gitmo is a disaster. We should treat them as POWs, even if they
don't wear a uniform or fight under a western-style nation-state.
Alternatively, the Geneva Convention says that spies -- that is,
soldiers in civilian clothes -- may be summarily executed.

Personally, I thought the last election was one of the worst set of
choices since, well, Gore and Bush. Even Mondale/Reagan wasn't this
bad.

Now, whatever you may think of my rambling opinions, stay safe and
keep your head down.

--
Eric F. Richards

"The weird part is that I can feel productive even when I'm doomed."
- Dilbert

On 14 Jun 2005 04:57:28 -0700, "
wrote:

(most of the police in Italy have been
minor criminals...try that in the USA,,,once convicted, always a
criminal).

What a hoot -- there are plenty of cops in the US who are
continually committing crimes (dropping evedince where it didn't
exist, extortion, roughing up suspects out of sight of cameras) --
they're just unindicted due to the code of silence.

wrote:


That He Got Acquitted on all counts..

Hard to Believe California Justice..

Law and order have nothing to do with justice!

And now there is the OJ killer and the fruit pervert out there.

I hope the whole state slides into the ocean.

Thank you for wishing death on me. I live there...



wrote in message
news
wrote:


That He Got Acquitted on all counts..

Hard to Believe California Justice..

Law and order have nothing to do with justice!

And now there is the OJ killer and the fruit pervert out there.

I hope the whole state slides into the ocean.

wrote:


Law and order have nothing to do with justice!

And now there is the OJ killer and the fruit pervert out there.

I hope the whole state slides into the ocean.


Why wish death on all of them? Only about eighty percent of them are
deviates. Ninety percent tops...





mike

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 02:34:48 GMT, m II wrote:

wrote:


Law and order have nothing to do with justice!

And now there is the OJ killer and the fruit pervert out there.

I hope the whole state slides into the ocean.


Why wish death on all of them? Only about eighty percent of them are
deviates. Ninety percent tops...


So it's OK to wish death on them because they don't agree with
your norms? I'd be very inclined to lie my way onto any jury trying
you, you moral-less POS.

wrote:

Why wish death on all of them? Only about eighty percent of them are
deviates. Ninety percent tops...



So it's OK to wish death on them because they don't agree with
your norms? I'd be very inclined to lie my way onto any jury trying
you, you moral-less POS.


I see you missed the gross exaggeration and obvious satire. I find your
willingness to lie in order to get a false conviction troubling though. This is
the attitude that starts overseas wars on oil rich countries using false
pretexts. Remember the bit about bearing false witness against your neighbour?

Perhaps you missed the irony of your own statement. You would lie because I
allegedly have no morals. That is funny, in a very twisted sort of way.




mike

On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:53:53 GMT, m II wrote:

wrote:

Why wish death on all of them? Only about eighty percent of them are
deviates. Ninety percent tops...



So it's OK to wish death on them because they don't agree with
your norms? I'd be very inclined to lie my way onto any jury trying
you, you moral-less POS.


I see you missed the gross exaggeration and obvious satire. I find your
willingness to lie in order to get a false conviction troubling though. This is
the attitude that starts overseas wars on oil rich countries using false
pretexts. Remember the bit about bearing false witness against your neighbour?

Perhaps you missed the irony of your own statement. You would lie because I
allegedly have no morals. That is funny, in a very twisted sort of way.




mike

Gross it was, but there was nothing obvious about the satire
and if it was intended to be satirical, it was a **** poor attempt.

I don't need any help from the likes of you as regards irony.