From: "-=jd=-"
Organization: Little... If any...
Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 03:05:22 GMT
Subject: OT Man arrested for firing at helicopter N.O.

On Wed 19 Oct 2005 07:29:55p, Greg wrote in
message :



From: "-=jd=-"
Organization: Little... If any...
Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 03:37:37 GMT
Subject: OT Man arrested for firing at helicopter N.O.

On Tue 18 Oct 2005 08:33:30p, Greg wrote in
message :



From: "-=jd=-"
Organization: Little... If any...
Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 22:07:52 GMT
Subject: OT Man arrested for firing at helicopter N.O.

On Mon 17 Oct 2005 07:15:23p, Greg wrote in
message :


http://techcentralstation.com/101405D.html

**Media Lied, People Died**

"...efforts to evacuate by helicopter some of the 200 patients at
New Orleans' Charity Hospital were halted for a day because of
reports of sniper fire. According to CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta, two
patients died awaiting evacuation. "The inability to get people out
of these hospitals is frightening," he said. Could he have known
false reporting from his own employer had contributed to this
nightmare?..."

SEE ALSO:http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/09/02/katrina.hospitals/


Hope this helps!!

It's frightening to think the military makes their decisions based
on what CNN reports.


Why would you jump to the conclusion that they were military? The
helicopters that stopped flying due to the news reports were private
air- ambulances, contracted by the hospital.


Well that's certainly a relief. That changes everything.


Just not for your demonstrated ability to jump to utterly unfounded
conclusions.



I guess if you need to cover your ass, that's as good as any other
excuse. One the other hand, one wonders why they didn'tbelieve NBC
when they said there were thousands of people stranded at
the Convention Cenmter.


You tend to make silly, unfounded comments like that when you are
basing your response on an incorrect, unfounded, knee-jerk
presumption (see above). Next time, you just might want to read the
article to get the story straight so you can make sure you can apply
the proper DNC-talking-points- template to your snarky reply!

This is a silly, snarky, knee-jerk thread and I certainly appreciate
my own point of view.


That's one of us...




I read, and re-read the article. Unsubstantiated accusations strung
together by cliches. Very authoritative. The final word I'm sure.


So you agree that the media propagated "unsubstantiated accusations"
(ie Wild Rumor) which, according to the CNN article, impacted the
evacuation of at least one hospital which, if CNN's Gupta is to be
believed, may have contributed to the death of at least two patients?
Or did you gloss over that part of the article as well?


No.

You think the media stuck solely with the truth?

It was true that roomers were rampant - all kinds of rumors. If news people
didn't make clear in their reports what was verified and what was rumored,
then they screwed up for sure.
I was being sarcastic.

Or flippant.

Same thing.
Sorry it went over your head.

That's ok. You'll get over it.


I heard the same reports everyone else did. I don't remember exactly
where (on which network/which show) I heard about the snipers shooting at
helicopters. I do know most of those kinds of reports were prefaced
with "officials tell us..." or "we're hearing reports...". If they were
unsubstantiated the reporters should have said so.

The reporters apparently didn't bother to keep notes or otherwise name the
source, cuz they aint' saying. If it was from "some official", I'm sure
they would be shouting it to the rooftops as their excuse for sloppy,
yellow journalism.



If you are too lazy to scroll back up, here's the link again:
SEE ALSO:http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/09/02/katrina.hospitals/

"We were coming in from a parking deck at Tulane Medical Center, and a
guy in a white shirt started firing at us," [Dr. Tyler] Curiel said.
"The National Guard [troops], wearing flak jackets, tried to get a bead
on this guy. "

"We got back to Charity Hospital with with food from Tulane and we said,
'OK the snipers are behind us, let's move on,' " Curiel said. "We
started loading patients [for transport] and 20 minutes later, shots
rang out."

Looks like direct quotes to me. Attribution. Dr. Tyler Curiel said...


Makes you wonder why he, and the reporter, are not speaking now. Or, as
Gupta says, "We don't know where these snipers went -- if they were caught,
shot or what happened." Could be luck of the draw for the bad guys, or it
could be convenient for Curiel. Who knows?

Not I.

Then the story goes on to say: 'The National Guard soldiers told staff
to get away from the windows, and evacuations were halted.'

I don't see that anywhere in the text of story at the CNN link. Where did
you find that?

From this link which was hyperlinked in the Tech Central Station story:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/0...per/index.html

I thought it was the same CNN link you supplied but it isn't. guess I WAS
too lazy to scroll back up!
Hmm, where's the part about evacuations being halted after the helicopter
contractor saw reports on CNN?

Same CNN link.
That article doesn't say one way or another. It doesn't claim media
reports, hospital staff or someone else halted the flights. Another set of
missing witnesses are all the other pilots in the air, and the ATC's
controlling them. Last I heard, the FAA (who was running one investigation
into the claims) could not find any pilot or ATC that heard any reports of
aircraft being fired upon during the week after the hurricane hit. I
understand their investigation continues, so they just might find someone
yet. I just occurs to me that it really shouldn't be that difficult to find
one pilot or ATC who heard *ANY* radio traffic similar to "HOLY CRAP
THEY'RE SHOOTING AT US!!", if it actually happened during that timeframe.
You'd think that kind of radio trafic would be memorable.



Is it possible your Mr. Gupta is mistaken?


It is *entirely* possible. That seemed to be an all too common and frequent
trait of the big Media broadcasters in NOLA during the week after Katrina
hit.



And about those two unfortunate people that died, would they have
survived if they had been evacuated? A lot of people died in NOLA and,
certainly, some of them could have been saved if only...


What? FEMA rolled in with their helicopters? Do you know how many
helicopters FEMA has? One? Two? I don't know - they may not have *any*.
After all, they aren't expected to be first-responders, or even second(?)
responders. FEMA primarily writes checks and tries to coordinate the
follow-on response. In any event, it's a safe bet they have far fewer than
the Louisiana National Guard has (and they were *right* there, relatively
speaking). Do you know who commands the Louisiana Nationa Guard? Gov
Blanco?

No, I agree, if only everyone had done their job and followed a coordinated
plan. I'm not excusing anyone.

It's just my personal opinion that "Media Lied and People Died" is
sensationalistic, unsubstantiated horse****. I'm sorry if that offends
your conservative sensibilities.
(Which talking point is from the DNC? I don't know anyone in the DNC,
do you? And I never hear their talking points.

You certainly have one of their techniques down pat. The one where,
before you have all of the pertinent details on a given issue, begin
bashing the Military/Bush. There's further prrof in your reply where,
when someone points out your wholly false, knee-jerk presumption that
you are using to bash the military/Bush, you become immediately
indignant.

or bemused. You do know the difference?


Add "ingenuous" to the list...

I'll accept that.

At some point, I expect and Emily Latella "Oh... never mind...." out of
you.

There goes my next line!

What's the next subject that you intend to froth about? "Endangered
Feces"?


Yeah, no ****.


I'm still trying to get over "The media lied, people died". Talk about
knee-jerk talking points!

Tell that to CNN's Gupta who says the death of at least two patients
could be attributed in part to the interruption in evacuations. Siad
interruption in evacuations was caused by unsubstantiated rumors of
sniper fire at the hospital being reported by CNN and the MSM.


He's not taking my calls. and he doesn't post on this NG. But you do,
so it's you that I'm answering.


If Gupta's right about the patients dying due to halted evacs, then the
title "The media lied, people died" is either reasonably accurate (by
MSM standards) or spot-on accurate (by civil court standards).

And if he's wrong?


Then it wouldn't be accurate. I predict that if he's right, the media still
nominates themselves for a pulitzer.


"Blame the Media" is right there in Chapter One of the Dittohead's
Handbook, right before "Environmental tree-hugging wackos are ruining
our profits!"


If you say so. I can't say I'm as familiar as you seem to be with them.
However, in the case at hand, it's apparently quite probable that the
media should rightfully assume responsibility for their irresponsible
reporting. Or is it now acceptable to yell fire in a crowded theater?


The media should assume responsibility for ALL their reporting. Most
legitimate news organizations do.


Blitzer's already taken responsibility for the "incredible" job the
reporters did covering NOLA, when someone tried to criticize the coverage.
I guess "Incredible" is one way to put it...



Pleasure to be of service!

Don't bother.


Oh, there's really no effort involved...


I know. But you do tend to take this personally.


I'm endeavoring to follow your lead!
Think nothing of it!

Then follow me now. I'm off to dinner. As far as the media situation is
concerned, I rely mostly on print media for well researched, well reported,
in-depth news, and on broadcast news for the headlines. As I said before, I
think the media got it right most of the time in a very difficult situation.
The bad news is, we get to see it all played over again soon with Wilma -
hopefully not as bad tho.

Happy DX

Greg