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CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
I'm no longer hearing the IBOC sidebands as I tune past WBBM and WSCR. Have
other CBS/Infinity stations also turned off the IBOC noise? WIND has dropped IBOC. Aside from the Clear Channel stations, it doesn't seem like there's much commitment to IBOC-AM, at least in Chicago. Frank Dresser |
CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
I'll check KCBS in the AM, but it has been my experience that that IBOC
isn't always turned on. It's not like anyone is using the service. ;-) Frank Dresser wrote: I'm no longer hearing the IBOC sidebands as I tune past WBBM and WSCR. Have other CBS/Infinity stations also turned off the IBOC noise? WIND has dropped IBOC. Aside from the Clear Channel stations, it doesn't seem like there's much commitment to IBOC-AM, at least in Chicago. Frank Dresser |
CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
wrote in message oups.com... I'll check KCBS in the AM, but it has been my experience that that IBOC isn't always turned on. It's not like anyone is using the service. ;-) Yeah, that's been my expirence, so I didn't think much when I didn't hear the noise. IBOC started intermittently on the two CBS stations here, but had run continously during the daytime for maybe a couple of months. I don't think I've heard the sidbands on either station for about 3 weeks. Clear Channel's AM stations in Chicago continue to use IBOC. Some, not many but some, people should be using the service. There were a few rather expensive IBOC receivers introduced this year. IBOC was supposed to be building momentum now. It seems curious that a couple of big time clears have turned off the IBOC sidebands during the Christmas season. Frank Dresser |
CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
Greetings Frank and all!
Pardon me for my ignorance but what is IBOC? I will never know without asking. I appreciate in advance the response! Have a great week and a wonderful New Year! Jon in South Carolina. |
CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
It looks like WWJ here in Detroit is still running it. They also
started some ads pushing the format so I don't think it is going over very well. All news in HD....gotta have it! Jim On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 05:48:19 GMT, "Frank Dresser" wrote: I'm no longer hearing the IBOC sidebands as I tune past WBBM and WSCR. Have other CBS/Infinity stations also turned off the IBOC noise? WIND has dropped IBOC. Aside from the Clear Channel stations, it doesn't seem like there's much commitment to IBOC-AM, at least in Chicago. Frank Dresser |
CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
For One and All,
On FM KDFC in the SF Bay Area was running IBOC http://www.kdfc.com/new/home_flash.cfm http://www.ibiquity.com/press/pr/061903.htm - Owned by Bonneville International Corp. KDFC is proud to be the first station in the world broadcasting in (HD) digital radio, with twice the fidelity of satellite radio. - by Paul Black, KDFC Engineering Department http://www.kdfc.com/new/hd.cfm The HD Radio signal is called an "In Band, On Channel" (IBOC) signal. To me IBOC makes Sound Sense and Good Business Cents for FM Stereo Radio - But for AM Talk Radio ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Long, winding road ahead for digital radio More stations are broadcasting it, but few listeners own receivers that can get better signal - by Benny Evangelista - Chronicle Staff Writer - May 31, 2004 http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...type=printable NOTE - IBiquity has the upper hand in getting stations to convert because its investors include the biggest radio corporations, including : Clear Channel Communications, Bonneville International Corp., Susquehanna Radio Corp., Viacom Inc. and ABC Inc. IBOC Radio Station "On-the-Air" http://ibiquity.com/hdradio/hdradio_hdstations.htm just my two cents worth ~ RHF |
CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
R.F. Collins wrote in message ... It looks like WWJ here in Detroit is still running it. They also started some ads pushing the format so I don't think it is going over very well. All news in HD....gotta have it! Jim IBOC is again on at WSCR-670. It's still off at WBBM-780. Both stations are talkers. WSCR is sport talk and WBBM is all news. Frank Dresser |
CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
"Doug Smith W9WI" wrote in message ... [snip] Eureka offers every station in a city identical coverage. I'm pretty sure IBOC was invented mostly to prevent the adoption of Eureka in the U.S., and the resulting ability of low-power, AM, and daytime-only stations to develop a full-fidelity, full-time signal able to compete with the high-powered FMs. My pet IBOC theory is that the push for it comes from the desire to broadcast independent channels from the sidebands. Two or three programs from the same license. -- Doug Smith W9WI Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66 http://www.w9wi.com [0] and too optimistic for cheap radios, like boom boxes & "Walkmen"... My old 80s era Sony Walkman is actually a decent AM dxer. I normally will pick up the all usual nighttime clear channel frequencies off the internal ferrite antenna. Frank Dresser |
CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 15:15:13 GMT, "Frank Dresser"
wrote: R.F. Collins wrote in message .. . It looks like WWJ here in Detroit is still running it. They also started some ads pushing the format so I don't think it is going over very well. All news in HD....gotta have it! Jim IBOC is again on at WSCR-670. It's still off at WBBM-780. Both stations are talkers. WSCR is sport talk and WBBM is all news. Frank Dresser Don't they have to bandwidth-limit the analog when the HD's on? |
CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
KCBS IBOC alive and well today.
Incidentally, IBOC leads to lower conventional AM quality on the IBOC station itself since they have to narrow the bandwidth of the analog signal. Frank Dresser wrote: wrote in message oups.com... I'll check KCBS in the AM, but it has been my experience that that IBOC isn't always turned on. It's not like anyone is using the service. ;-) Yeah, that's been my expirence, so I didn't think much when I didn't hear the noise. IBOC started intermittently on the two CBS stations here, but had run continously during the daytime for maybe a couple of months. I don't think I've heard the sidbands on either station for about 3 weeks. Clear Channel's AM stations in Chicago continue to use IBOC. Some, not many but some, people should be using the service. There were a few rather expensive IBOC receivers introduced this year. IBOC was supposed to be building momentum now. It seems curious that a couple of big time clears have turned off the IBOC sidebands during the Christmas season. Frank Dresser |
CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
In article ,
Doug Smith W9WI wrote: Eureka offers every station in a city identical coverage. I'm pretty sure IBOC was invented mostly to prevent the adoption of Eureka in the U.S., and the resulting ability of low-power, AM, and daytime-only stations to develop a full-fidelity, full-time signal able to compete with the high-powered FMs. The local NPR station (KUOW) had an hour with their engineering staff on one of their talk shows last summer when they started using IBOC. One of them said, directly, that the National Association of Broadcasters opposed other digitial radio systems because they doubled the number of available channels. Mark Zenier Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com) |
CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
May I chime in from the broadcasters perspective? Most of what's been
written is very accurate. The IBOC technology as implemented in the USA was developed by Ibiquity, Inc and is licensed under the name 'HD Radio'. Hence, if you're interested in purchasing a receiver to decode this technology, do a search for 'HD Radio'. To date, there are very few receivers available, largely due to standards resolution, and the long lead-time required by Detroit to implement new technologies into US made automobiles. My sense is that radio Broadcasters, feeling the heat of competition from XM / Sirius / Ipods / Internet streams + WiFi, as well as the Eureka 147 digital radio roll-out in Europe (whereby all radio services emanate from a single point-source, and all have the same technical capabilities) felt the need to "do something digital". It had to be on the traditional AM/FM band because Broadcasters have paid a ton of money for each of their properties; to simply abandon the AM/FM scheme in order to implement 'digital' would have been financially devastating to station owners. As has been discussed, HD Radio is not currently authorized on AM stations at night, ("night is *not* defined as 6 AM to 6 PM, but rather varies with a station's geographic location and the time of year) though a serious lobbying effort is on to change this. Hence, at this point it does not seriously impact DX opportunities, since most long-range reception is a nighttime phenomenon (when the IBOC signals are off). Here in Los Angeles, we've implemented HD Radio on AM 1110, Radio Disney - a children's formatted music station. I would describe the aural result as "startling" - 14 kHz stereo, very low noise, no obviously noticable artifacts, no multi-path in an automotive environment - in short, it's *very* hard to believe you're hearing an AM station. Compare this to a *typical* AM receiver (not necessarily a Drake R8B or Eton E1/XM) with a mono 3.5 kHz response and loud buzzes evey time you drive under a power line, and you can see the attractivness to the Broadcasting community. "Here, finally is a way to compete with new technologies" [programming issues aside!]. On the FM side, the aural improvement is much less noticeable. Since no pre-emphasis is required in the IBOC signal path, the high-end sounds more 'natural' and 'airy', but these are very subjective terms. What is new is the ability to "split" the IBOC bandwidth, such that station W*** - FM can now have 2 or 3 full fidelity "sister" or "associated" stations. This will provide FM broadcasters with the opportunity to explore new (and hopefully more creative) programming opportunities. Here in LA, about a half-dozen FM broadcasters have already implemented this "multiple channel" broadcasting, and most of these new channels are (for the time being) commercial free. Too, there is a lot of talk about implementing 'surround' sound on IBOC FM, which also might prove to be a 'startling' addition to our radio experiences. Again, my sense is that broadcasters are thinking that the analog technology that served us well in the 20th Century has run its course, and that to remain a viable medium a transition to digital *must* take place. The trouble is that there are (probably) a half-billion analog receivers in the USA alone capable of receiving analog AM / FM, and these can't be abandoned overnight. The Station's around the country are now in the first phase of implementing digital radio, in the form of IBOC / HD Radio. And my bet is that it's *not* going to go away. Mike Worrall ABC Radio Los Angeles |
CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
Digital tv switchover in 2009,digital radio is coming along now.Why
can't them a...oles leave analog alone and leave well enough alone? cuhulin |
CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
|
CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 22:08:47 -0500, dxAce
wrote: Again, my sense is that broadcasters are thinking that the analog technology that served us well in the 20th Century has run its course, and that to remain a viable medium a transition to digital *must* take place. The trouble is that there are (probably) a half-billion analog receivers in the USA alone capable of receiving analog AM / FM, and these can't be abandoned overnight. The Station's around the country are now in the first phase of implementing digital radio, in the form of IBOC / HD Radio. And my bet is that it's *not* going to go away. That's unfortunate in that it needs to die just like DRM needs to die. dxAce Michigan USA The USA could have gone Eureka 147 but the NAB and Collins/Rockwell blocked it. Now they have to deal with the consequences, XM and Sirius. |
CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
David wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 21:07:45 -0600, wrote: Digital tv switchover in 2009,digital radio is coming along now.Why can't them a...oles leave analog alone and leave well enough alone? cuhulin It's a fiendish plot to make you go crazy. They've apparently been enjoying their success for quite some time now. mike |
CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
Just because I am weird doesn't mean I am crazy.I just finished watching
The Great Escape movie on tv,A Bridge Too Far movie has just now started on tv.I am trying to figure if I am weird enough to stay awoke and watch that movie tonight.Nahhh,soon as I finish this cigarette,I am cutting the light and hitting the sack. www.devilfinder.com The Real Great Escape cuhulin |
CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
DaviD - " It's a fiendish plot to make you go crazy. "
Some would say that 'you' are evidence if it's success ~ RHF |
CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
"David Eduardo" wrote in message . com... The current adaptation allows one analog and two digital signals, one of which has the same content of the analog signal. AM IBOC only allows one digital signal, in parallel withthe analog signal. Yes, but we at rec.radio.shortwave celebrate conspiracy theories and Hidden Knowledge. So, would it be impossible to develop a new generation of IBOC-AM which would have independent programming on the digital sidebands? Of course, the "new and improved" IBOC would require consumers to pay for yet another Ibiquity patented radio. Also, when the presumed analog phase-out is completed, will the channels be restored to the old standard, or will the broadcasters have to find something to do with all that redundant bandwidth? Frank Dresser |
CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
wrote in message oups.com... May I chime in from the broadcasters perspective? Most of what's been written is very accurate. The IBOC technology as implemented in the USA was developed by Ibiquity, Inc and is licensed under the name 'HD Radio'. Hence, if you're interested in purchasing a receiver to decode this technology, do a search for 'HD Radio'. To date, there are very few receivers available, largely due to standards resolution, and the long lead-time required by Detroit to implement new technologies into US made automobiles. My sense is that radio Broadcasters, feeling the heat of competition from XM / Sirius / Ipods / Internet streams + WiFi, as well as the Eureka 147 digital radio roll-out in Europe (whereby all radio services emanate from a single point-source, and all have the same technical capabilities) felt the need to "do something digital". It had to be on the traditional AM/FM band because Broadcasters have paid a ton of money for each of their properties; to simply abandon the AM/FM scheme in order to implement 'digital' would have been financially devastating to station owners. As has been discussed, HD Radio is not currently authorized on AM stations at night, ("night is *not* defined as 6 AM to 6 PM, but rather varies with a station's geographic location and the time of year) though a serious lobbying effort is on to change this. Hence, at this point it does not seriously impact DX opportunities, since most long-range reception is a nighttime phenomenon (when the IBOC signals are off). Here in Los Angeles, we've implemented HD Radio on AM 1110, Radio Disney - a children's formatted music station. I would describe the aural result as "startling" - 14 kHz stereo, very low noise, no obviously noticable artifacts, no multi-path in an automotive environment - in short, it's *very* hard to believe you're hearing an AM station. Compare this to a *typical* AM receiver (not necessarily a Drake R8B or Eton E1/XM) with a mono 3.5 kHz response and loud buzzes evey time you drive under a power line, and you can see the attractivness to the Broadcasting community. "Here, finally is a way to compete with new technologies" [programming issues aside!]. On the FM side, the aural improvement is much less noticeable. Since no pre-emphasis is required in the IBOC signal path, the high-end sounds more 'natural' and 'airy', but these are very subjective terms. What is new is the ability to "split" the IBOC bandwidth, such that station W*** - FM can now have 2 or 3 full fidelity "sister" or "associated" stations. This will provide FM broadcasters with the opportunity to explore new (and hopefully more creative) programming opportunities. Here in LA, about a half-dozen FM broadcasters have already implemented this "multiple channel" broadcasting, and most of these new channels are (for the time being) commercial free. Too, there is a lot of talk about implementing 'surround' sound on IBOC FM, which also might prove to be a 'startling' addition to our radio experiences. Again, my sense is that broadcasters are thinking that the analog technology that served us well in the 20th Century has run its course, and that to remain a viable medium a transition to digital *must* take place. The trouble is that there are (probably) a half-billion analog receivers in the USA alone capable of receiving analog AM / FM, and these can't be abandoned overnight. The Station's around the country are now in the first phase of implementing digital radio, in the form of IBOC / HD Radio. And my bet is that it's *not* going to go away. Mike Worrall ABC Radio Los Angeles |
CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
wrote in message oups.com... [snip] Here in Los Angeles, we've implemented HD Radio on AM 1110, Radio Disney - a children's formatted music station. I would describe the aural result as "startling" - 14 kHz stereo, very low noise, no obviously noticable artifacts, no multi-path in an automotive environment - in short, it's *very* hard to believe you're hearing an AM station. Compare this to a *typical* AM receiver (not necessarily a Drake R8B or Eton E1/XM) with a mono 3.5 kHz response and loud buzzes evey time you drive under a power line, and you can see the attractivness to the Broadcasting community. "Here, finally is a way to compete with new technologies" [programming issues aside!]. [snip] Yes, but as you suggest, higher priced analog -- or older, as in boatanchor -- radio technology outperforms the newer analog radios. But people seem more interested in a radio's price rather than quality. Sharper skirted filters, low distortion detectors and real noise limiters could now be mainstreamed into current radios, if people were willing to pay a little extra. And things might have changed, but most people don't seem to have even half an audiophiles interest in good sound. FM took a generation to catch up with AM. AM stereo faded away. People are moving from CD quality to MP3 quality. Good enough is plenty good as long as it's cheaper and more convienient. Frank Dresser |
CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
wrote:
As has been discussed, HD Radio is not currently authorized on AM stations at night, ("night is *not* defined as 6 AM to 6 PM, but rather varies with a station's geographic location and the time of year) though a serious lobbying effort is on to change this. Hence, at this point it does not seriously impact DX opportunities, since most long-range reception is a nighttime phenomenon (when the IBOC signals are off). From FCC Public Notice DA-03-831: (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/audio/DA-03-831A1.pdf) "Until further notice, AM stations must restrict IBOC operation to daytime hours. An AM station with authority to operate between 6 a.m. and local sunrise (pre-sunrise hours) and between local sunset and 6 p.m. (post-sunset hours) may operate its hybrid IBOC system during those periods. " As I read that, AM stations that are authorized to operate in analog between the hours of 6am and 6pm are also authorized to operate IBOC during those hours. Admittedly those two sentences could have been worded a lot better! That is indeed a different definition of "night" than the one the FCC uses for determining whether a station should be on nighttime power and/or antenna pattern. Mike's KDIS is required to reduce power from 50kw to 20kw at night, and that change is required to take place at 4:45pm. (for the next two days; it slips to 5pm on the 1st of January) But as I read it, they can leave the IBOC on - on the lower power and night directional pattern - until 6:00. Again, my sense is that broadcasters are thinking that the analog technology that served us well in the 20th Century has run its course, and that to remain a viable medium a transition to digital *must* take place. The trouble is that there are (probably) a half-billion analog receivers in the USA alone capable of receiving analog AM / FM, and these can't be abandoned overnight. The Station's around the country are now in the first phase of implementing digital radio, in the form of IBOC / HD Radio. And my bet is that it's *not* going to go away. We are finding in TV just how slowly old receivers are being dropped. In TV we have the advantage of cable and satellite operators doing the downconversion for us in 85% of households - and the fact that a given household has a relatively small number of TV receivers. Also, by using an "in-band separate channel" conversion scheme, the new digital TV signals result in little or no interference to existing analog service. Even so it appears the transition will take more than ten years. Radio doesn't have most of those advantages. Nobody will be downconverting HD to analog for old receivers. Most households have handfuls of radios - far more than they have TVs. For the millions of us in outer suburbs (and the millions in lightly-populated and rural areas), the interference will not be negligible. Especially on AM. FM IBOC is certainly an upgrade for those who listen to mainstream stations *and* live (and commute) in the core of the market. It is likely to be a major unpleasant surprise for those who live in outer suburbs and outlying towns. -- Doug Smith W9WI Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66 http://www.w9wi.com |
CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
Audio,good sound? www.pricewheeler.com Click on,Site Map and then
scroll down and click on,Audio Sites.Yes,I do own and use a Brickwall surge filter,lifetime guarantee,you can't buy better than Brickwall,in my opinion. cuhulin |
CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
Kristoff Bonne wrote: Gegroet, dxAce schreef: ... FM IBOC is a headache as far as trying to receive rimshot stations on first and second adjacent channels. It's just like DRM... It's QRM! And the same argument applies as for DRM. What is radio-bandwidth for? For people to listen to a radio-station or for DX-ers to receive some far-away station? Far more people are interested in better audio-quality or additional stations then DXing. As far as there is no conflict between these two groups of people, no problem; but if -as is now the case- the gouvernement has to chose between one or the other; the choise is pretty easy. And you can post "DRM = QRM" or "'tart boy" as much as you like; this will not change the situation. There's a new one... tart boy... Think I'll use it. Thanks, dxAce Michigan USA |
CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
KB,
The same applies to the limited number of former High Powered "Clear Channel" 50KW Radio Stations. Many more Local 1KW, 5KW and 10KW Radios Stations serve more People (Radio Listeners) and produce more Local Jobs and Revenue plus Local Taxes that aggregate into a larger National Economy then a Few Clear Channel Big Stations. After all it is "The Broadcasting Business" and a Corporation with a Hundred Local Radio Stations can make more Money; then a Corporation with a Few High Powered Clear Channel Radio Stations. jm2cw ~ RHF |
CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
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CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
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CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
"Kristoff Bonne" wrote in message ... Gegroet, dxAce schreef: ... FM IBOC is a headache as far as trying to receive rimshot stations on first and second adjacent channels. It's just like DRM... It's QRM! And the same argument applies as for DRM. What is radio-bandwidth for? For people to listen to a radio-station or for DX-ers to receive some far-away station? Far more people are interested in better audio-quality or additional stations then DXing. As far as there is no conflict between these two groups of people, no problem; but if -as is now the case- the gouvernement has to chose between one or the other; the choise is pretty easy. I can't speak for or against DRM, as I've never heard it. However, IBOC *IS* a bad source of interference. And not just to DX'ers. Not everyone lives in a big city, many (most?) live in suburbs or rural areas where there is no 'local' radio station. These people of necessity must listen to what are referred to as 'rimshots'. These are stations which are considered to be on the far rim of a city's coverage area. Many of these are at only 400 KHz spacing from the stations in the cities, and are very prone to interference from the IBOC digital signals from those second-adjacent channels. Even IN the cities, if someone likes to listen to a station in the next city that has programming unavailable in their own city, this is now nearly impossible. As far as AM IBOC is concerned, it not only degrades reception of first and second adjacent channels, it degrades reception of it's own analog on channel signal, especially on radios designed with wider than 3 KHz IF bandwidths (which includes most radios made in the 70's and before, of which there are still tens of millions in use). |
CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
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CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
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CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
Well, this is all very interesting. I'm just wondering as I'm not that
up on HD radio anyways a couple of things: First of all, if AM is mostly talk - as it is now -- what is the audio difference offered by HD? And secondly, if the stations are using parts of other band widths to pull this off -- at least in populated markets - like LA, Chicago and New York -- isn't HD going to be a nightmare for the FCC. It was bad enough just trying to protect AM Clear Channel stations when the sun goes down. How on earth will the FCC ever be able to govern all of this - not mention the engineering nightmare it will cause?? But then I'm not an engineer, maybe it's not as bad as it seems. |
CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
Well, thanks for that summary. That was quite insightful. If you can
actually get better AM reception wtih HD or IBOC then it would be a great addition to AM radio. Personally, it seems somehow scareligous to listen to XM or Sirius. I just miss the commercial aspect of radio. So, anything to keep AM/FM viable would be great. Do you mean by fidelity sister stations that they can actually run separate programming -- we have a station near me that broadcasts on like 94.7 and then also has a second transmitter located nearby that broadcast on 94.9 - but they are the same programming sounds. Thanks for your insight. |
CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
"Kristoff Bonne" wrote in message ... Gegroet, Frank Dresser schreef: Yes, but we at rec.radio.shortwave celebrate conspiracy theories and Hidden Knowledge. So, would it be impossible to develop a new generation of IBOC-AM which would have independent programming on the digital sidebands? AFAIK, the standards say that -when the signal-quality of the digital signal drops to low- the radio should switch back to analog. There seams to have done quite some effort to keep the analog and digitale signals syncronous. This means that the analog and digital audio-channels must be the same. (this of course does not apply to any additional digital channel). Right. But I'm wondering what the technical limits of the IBOC scheme are. Are the digital sidebands the same, and, if so, must they remain the same? I'd assume a current IBOC radio would ignore digital sidebands differently encoded and fall back into AM mode. So, I'd think independent programming, even pay programming, isn't out of the question. From what I understand, IBOC was developed because the US broadcasters did not like DAB/eureka for a number of reasons; one of them being "it did not fit the current business model"; so that why they opted for a system that allowed for as less as possibe new content and where the digital channel is contenwise the same as the analog channel, only with better audio-quality; and -therefor- influence the current situation in the radio-market as less as possible. The funny thing is that -with nationwide satellite-radio and podcasting- the radio-market is changing anyway. Also, when the presumed analog phase-out is completed, will the channels be restored to the old standard, or will the broadcasters have to find something to do with all that redundant bandwidth? Depends on the legislation. If it has proven to have worked OK for I don't know how many years (during the switch-over) why go back to the old bandplan? That is exactly what I'd expect. A fully-digital frequeny-slot in band II (400 Khz) does allow for -say- 3 to 4 radio-channels at as-good audioquality as current FM; why go back to just one channel. Radio-stations will probably be interested in these new channels to compete with XM, sirius, podcasting, (perhaps) DVB-H, etc. etc. Frank Dresser Cheerio! Kr. Bonne. I'm looking at the IBOC plans from a radio hobbyist's perspective. DXing is degraded by the wider channel, especially since it's filled with digital noise. And I have a hard time believing there's a great unfilled demand for better sounding AM radios. If there were such a demand, the better radios which are available right now would be better sellers. But people are happy buying cheap AM radios with bad sound. I just don't believe that there's some huge profitable market for better sounding AM radios, even if they work with some fancy new modulation scheme. More than that, there's little historical reason to think most people want better sound. The Hi-Fi AM experiments of the late 30s and 40s didn't trigger a large demand for great sounding radios. FM foundered from the late forties to the seventies. AM stereo erupted with great fanfare and is now almost entirely gone. People are actually trading their good quality landline phones for Satan's garbley invention, the cellphone. So, it might seem that the people who are actively promoting IBOC are either risk-takers, stupid or have a hidden backup plan in the case that "HD radio" somehow doesn't manage to open up enough wallets. Frank Dresser |
CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
Kristoff Bonne wrote: Gegroet, dxAce schreef: Hey, english is my thirth language. Perhaps can we continue this discussion in dutch, french or german if you want. No matter what language, you'll still be talking out your ass. DRM = QRM I'll translate that to "no, I don't speak any language other then english and I'll just repeat my matra so to hide the fact I don't know what else to say". :-) QRM knows no language, 'tard boy. Get with the program. DRM = QRM dxAce Michigan USA |
CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
dxAce schreef (wrote):
No matter what language, you'll still be talking out your ass. Kristoff Bonne wrote: I'll translate that to "no, I don't speak any language other then english and I'll just repeat my matra so to hide the fact I don't know what else to say". Very perceptive observation...once he's gone through " 'tard boy", "****stain" and "dumb Canucky", he's pretty much exhausted his grasp of the language... Kristoff Bonne wrote: And you can post "DRM = QRM" or "'tart boy" as much as you like; this will not change the situation. There's a new one... tart boy... Hey, english is my thirth language. Perhaps can we coninue this discussion in dutch, french or german if you want. Well, I see you've met our village idiot...er, International Goodwill Ambassador. In the last few days, he's insulted people from at least four countries (in addition to the U.S. of course) He seems to ridicule those whose second (or third) language is English and ridicule various foreign countries and yet his hobby is supposedly listening to foreign countries. LOL at the spectacular irony! Whatta hypocrite!! It's best to just let him get back to being a cry baby about DRM and anyone whose views differ from his... Happy New Year to all!! |
The Whore House Years (was: CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?)
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CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
"Carter, K8VT" wrote: dxAce schreef (wrote): No matter what language, you'll still be talking out your ass. Kristoff Bonne wrote: I'll translate that to "no, I don't speak any language other then english and I'll just repeat my matra so to hide the fact I don't know what else to say". Very perceptive observation...once he's gone through " 'tard boy", "****stain" and "dumb Canucky", he's pretty much exhausted his grasp of the language... Kristoff Bonne wrote: And you can post "DRM = QRM" or "'tart boy" as much as you like; this will not change the situation. There's a new one... tart boy... Hey, english is my thirth language. Perhaps can we coninue this discussion in dutch, french or german if you want. Well, I see you've met our village idiot...er, International Goodwill Ambassador. In the last few days, he's insulted people from at least four countries (in addition to the U.S. of course) He seems to ridicule those whose second (or third) language is English and ridicule various foreign countries and yet his hobby is supposedly listening to foreign countries. LOL at the spectacular irony! Whatta hypocrite!! It's best to just let him get back to being a cry baby about DRM and anyone whose views differ from his... There's no cry baby better than you, Grabowski! LMFAO at the stupid Liberal 'tard yet again. dxAce Michigan USA |
The Whore House Years (was: CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?)
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CBS/Infinity and IBOC-AM?
I actually have IBOC capability on my home receiver (the Yamaha
RX-V4600). The "mutlicasting" on FM is actually pretty nice since it allows commercially-untenable formats to be broadcast. Here in Detroit, we have 9 stations broadcasting "second IBOC" channels. One (94.7) uses its second IBOC channel to broadcast "deep album rock" from the 1960's and 70's. Another (105.1) broadcasts classical "pops" on its second IBOC channel. Another broadcasts "live rock concerts" on it's second IBOC channel. The audio quality on the FM IBOC channels is about as good as a 256K MP3. An analogue FM transmission is capable of MUCH better sound quality (although only a few stations such as WFMT in Chicago or WQXR in New York actually broadcast uncompressed FM analogue sound). The big problem, reception-quality-wise, is that FM IBOC is unreceivable unless you are in a strong, local reception condition. For example, there's an NPR station that broadcasts classical music in Lansing, MI (about 80 miles from me) and I can't pick up their IBOC signal, even with a yagi directional FM antenna. Their analogue signal comes in just fine, and my receiver reverts to analogue since the digital IBOC signal is unreceivable. As far as AM IBOC goes, Detroit's 950 AM and 910 AM broadcast an IBOC signal. 950's audio quality was HORRIBLE when it first started up, with echoey, swishy, digital artifact sound. Now, Ibiquity seems to have fixed something and 950's signal sounds okay with nice high frequency reproduction. It sounds about as good as a 64K MP3. 910's IBOC signal still sounds awful (although it's in stereo). AM IBOC though does NOT in any way, shape, or form have "FM quality sound" as Ibiquity's advertising trumpets. There is an AM stereo station locally (CFCO in Chatham, ON) which indeed DOES have "audio quality approaching FM" when listened to on a good AM stereo receiver (I have an AM stereo tuner in my Ford Escape Hybrid which has the best sound that I've ever heard out of an AM radio). As far as "IBOC vs DRM" for "high fidelity AM" broadcasts, since IBOC "shares" the allotted bandwidth with an analogue signal, it requires an extremely strong local signal in order to receive it. There is an AM NPR station in Lansing, MI which is UNRECEIVABLE in IBOC mode from 70 miles away, even using a Kiwa Air Core Loop which brings in the analogue AM signal 20 dB over S9. In contrast, since DRM does not share it's bandwidth with an analogue signal, the ability to "DX DRM" is much greater. I can receive DRM test transmissions with perfect decoding from stations that are inaudible in analogue mode (Deutsche Welle and Radio Nederland quite often "switch over" from analogue to DRM in the midst of a broadcast). As far as "Eureka DAB" goes, it's deader than a doornail in Canada. The foppish bureaucrats who were trying to "act European and declare their independence from the U.S." by implementing DAB in Canada failed miserably and wasted millions of Canadian tax dollars in the process. Since most Canadian stations (except the CBC) are dependent on U.S. advertising, absolutely NONE of them were about to replace AM and FM with DAB and lose all of the U.S. advertising dollars. I spoke with an engineer at the local CBC station in Windsor, ON and he didn't even KNOW that there was still a DAB transmitter operating in Windsor. The Canadians quietly abandoned their ill-conceived DAB pork-barrel and have allowed XM and Sirius to begin service in Canada. The above comments are based on empiricle results from my own listening and DX'ing experiences using analogue AM Stereo, IBOC, and DRM receivers. Fred E. - N8UC Detroit, MI |
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