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Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
Wasn't this supposed to be the idea behind the high-powered stations?
National full-service coverage? I believe each city should be limited to maximum six or eight MW stations. Two high powered 50 kilowatt stations, the rest would be 10,000 or lower local/regional channels. In addition, the LW band and the "Tropical" part of the SW band should be pressed into service for one or two 500,000 watt national coverage broadcasters - government sponsored (NPR?) Want specialist programming? That's what FM is for. -- Stephanie Weil New York City, NY |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
"Stephanie Weil" wrote in message oups.com... Wasn't this supposed to be the idea behind the high-powered stations? National full-service coverage? Theat was the idea, back in the 30's. Of course, that was pre-TV. Then, the bulk of radio listening was in the home at night. Today, the bulk of listening is in the car or at work (two thirds of all listening) and in the daytime. Night listening is one third of daytime levels (7 to midnight) and AM night listening is very limited. I believe each city should be limited to maximum six or eight MW stations. The model in the US has always been based on whatever would work tecnically. Unfortunately, between a half and two-thirds of metro area AMs are inadequate to cover the market they serve, as they were either designed in the 30's or 40's before urban sprawl, or they are daytimers or showehorned in directional monsters. There are some markets, like Washington, DC, that do not have a single full market coverage AM. Two high powered 50 kilowatt stations, the rest would be 10,000 or lower local/regional channels. In many markets, 10 kw is not enough to cover the market without being trashed by manmade noise. Also, the relationship has to considder that low band AMs cover much better than high band... a 5 kw on 550 outcovers vastly a 50 kw on 1500. In addition, the LW band and the "Tropical" part of the SW band should be pressed into service for one or two 500,000 watt national coverage broadcasters - government sponsored (NPR?) Nobody would put up with the fading and static and interference on a national Am today. This is not the 30's. And younger, under 35 listeners, have no use fo rhte sound quality of the AM band. |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote: Snip In many markets, 10 kw is not enough to cover the market without being trashed by manmade noise. Also, the relationship has to considder that low band AMs cover much better than high band... a 5 kw on 550 outcovers vastly a 50 kw on 1500. Snip You are referring to daytime reception only? Considering daytime ground wave propagation, is the difference in coverage low to high band due to ground conductivity where the high end of the band has more loss per mile? -- Telamon Ventura, California |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
"Telamon" wrote in message ... In article , "David Eduardo" wrote: Snip In many markets, 10 kw is not enough to cover the market without being trashed by manmade noise. Also, the relationship has to considder that low band AMs cover much better than high band... a 5 kw on 550 outcovers vastly a 50 kw on 1500. Snip You are referring to daytime reception only? Yes. In the US, there are so few stations that have any extended night coverage as to make the point moot for all but maybe 30 or 40 stations in the whole nation that can get usable skywave coverage. In any event, night AM listening is so low that it is irrelevanat, irrespective of coverage. Considering daytime ground wave propagation, is the difference in coverage low to high band due to ground conductivity where the high end of the band has more loss per mile? Given the same transmitter site, and same radiation efficiency, the difference is that medium wave signals propagate better watt for watt on the lower frequencies. Ground conductivity decreases as a function of frequency. This is why the old adage that 1 kw on 1540 covers better than 50 kw on 1600 is nearly true. |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
David Eduardo wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message ... In article , "David Eduardo" wrote: Snip In many markets, 10 kw is not enough to cover the market without being trashed by manmade noise. Also, the relationship has to considder that low band AMs cover much better than high band... a 5 kw on 550 outcovers vastly a 50 kw on 1500. Snip You are referring to daytime reception only? Yes. In the US, there are so few stations that have any extended night coverage as to make the point moot for all but maybe 30 or 40 stations in the whole nation that can get usable skywave coverage. In any event, night AM listening is so low that it is irrelevanat, irrespective of coverage. Considering daytime ground wave propagation, is the difference in coverage low to high band due to ground conductivity where the high end of the band has more loss per mile? Given the same transmitter site, and same radiation efficiency, the difference is that medium wave signals propagate better watt for watt on the lower frequencies. Ground conductivity decreases as a function of frequency. This is why the old adage that 1 kw on 1540 covers better than 50 kw on 1600 is nearly true. I assume you meant 540, not 1540. I think it would be cool to have long wave (LW) broadcasters in the USA. Ten 2 megawatt stations, on 10 frequencies, evenly spaced across the country would cover the entire lower 48 day and night. It won't happen, of course, because nobody owns radios that cover LW besides radio nerds like us. |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
"Somebody Somewhere" wrote in message ups.com... David Eduardo wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message ... In article , "David Eduardo" wrote: Snip In many markets, 10 kw is not enough to cover the market without being trashed by manmade noise. Also, the relationship has to considder that low band AMs cover much better than high band... a 5 kw on 550 outcovers vastly a 50 kw on 1500. Snip You are referring to daytime reception only? Yes. In the US, there are so few stations that have any extended night coverage as to make the point moot for all but maybe 30 or 40 stations in the whole nation that can get usable skywave coverage. In any event, night AM listening is so low that it is irrelevanat, irrespective of coverage. Considering daytime ground wave propagation, is the difference in coverage low to high band due to ground conductivity where the high end of the band has more loss per mile? Given the same transmitter site, and same radiation efficiency, the difference is that medium wave signals propagate better watt for watt on the lower frequencies. Ground conductivity decreases as a function of frequency. This is why the old adage that 1 kw on 1540 covers better than 50 kw on 1600 is nearly true. I assume you meant 540, not 1540. Yep. thanks for spotting this. I think it would be cool to have long wave (LW) broadcasters in the USA. Ten 2 megawatt stations, on 10 frequencies, evenly spaced across the country would cover the entire lower 48 day and night. It won't happen, of course, because nobody owns radios that cover LW besides radio nerds like us. Unfortunately, nobody but the over 40 crowd will put up with AM quality, and it would be a losing proposition from the start. |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
SW,
"In addition, the LW band and the "Tropical" part of the SW band should be pressed into service for one or two 500,000 watt national coverage broadcasters - government sponsored (NPR?) " i like that idea ~ RHF |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
SbSw,
"I think it would be cool to have long wave (LW) broadcasters in the USA. Ten 2 megawatt stations, on 10 frequencies, evenly spaced across the country would cover the entire lower 48 day and night." i like that idea ~ RHF |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
"David" wrote in message ... On 18 May 2006 09:16:29 -0700, "RHF" wrote: SbSw, "I think it would be cool to have long wave (LW) broadcasters in the USA. Ten 2 megawatt stations, on 10 frequencies, evenly spaced across the country would cover the entire lower 48 day and night." i like that idea ~ RHF . That's absurd. A satellite covers the whole country and uses way less energy. Yes, and a satellite also requires a directional antenna and special receiver (and a subscription). Putting LW into standard radios would cost almost nothing, and add little to the cost of a portable radio. |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
In article ,
"Brenda Ann" wrote: "David" wrote in message ... On 18 May 2006 09:16:29 -0700, "RHF" wrote: SbSw, "I think it would be cool to have long wave (LW) broadcasters in the USA. Ten 2 megawatt stations, on 10 frequencies, evenly spaced across the country would cover the entire lower 48 day and night." i like that idea ~ RHF . That's absurd. A satellite covers the whole country and uses way less energy. Yes, and a satellite also requires a directional antenna and special receiver (and a subscription). Putting LW into standard radios would cost almost nothing, and add little to the cost of a portable radio. How much energy did it take to put the satellite into orbit? How much power is used in the uplink effort? -- Telamon Ventura, California |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
On Fri, 19 May 2006 09:09:18 +0900, "Brenda Ann"
wrote: "David" wrote in message .. . On 18 May 2006 09:16:29 -0700, "RHF" wrote: SbSw, "I think it would be cool to have long wave (LW) broadcasters in the USA. Ten 2 megawatt stations, on 10 frequencies, evenly spaced across the country would cover the entire lower 48 day and night." i like that idea ~ RHF . That's absurd. A satellite covers the whole country and uses way less energy. Yes, and a satellite also requires a directional antenna and special receiver (and a subscription). Putting LW into standard radios would cost almost nothing, and add little to the cost of a portable radio. There are a wide variety of satellites and not all require a subscription. |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
On Fri, 19 May 2006 01:00:42 GMT, Telamon
wrote: How much energy did it take to put the satellite into orbit? How much power is used in the uplink effort? That's like saying how much energy was required to build a power plant. Most TWTAs run a few hundred Watts. |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
"RHF" wrote in message ups.com... SW, "In addition, the LW band and the "Tropical" part of the SW band should be pressed into service for one or two 500,000 watt national coverage broadcasters - government sponsored (NPR?) " Americans increasingly will not listen to even local AM-quality radio. they certainly would not listen to fady, erratic SW. |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
"David Eduardo" wrote in message . com... "RHF" wrote in message ups.com... SW, "In addition, the LW band and the "Tropical" part of the SW band should be pressed into service for one or two 500,000 watt national coverage broadcasters - government sponsored (NPR?) " Americans increasingly will not listen to even local AM-quality radio. they certainly would not listen to fady, erratic SW. Glad you have a good grasp on your tiny little world Eduardo.. but a lot of the rest of us belong to a great big world with a lot of other choices besides the ones that the NAB wants to cram down our throats. I don't personally know ANYBODY outside of broadcasting that want's to put up with IBOC, and I know several BE's (and I am one of them) that consider it nothing but a QRM generator, and a major PITA to work with. Not to mention that anyone outside a few mile radius from the transmitter can't hear the digital signal to start with. This is proven by anecdotal evidence of numerous people who have purchased the $300 BA (down from $500) and attempted to use it in their local signal areas. Tell me something, Eduardo.. are people going to put up big outside antennas, or random wire AM antennas, just to hear a crappy digital signal full of artifacts? I don't think so. The majority of listeners now are using boom box radios and don't bother to even put the antenna up on them most of the time. I'm pretty sure they're not going to spend big $$$ on a piece of **** radio, then have to put up antennas to use it. Ain't gonna happen. I suppose you think that you're going to hear the sound of half a billion (or more) analog radios hitting the trash can? I think it much more likely that will be a few hundred IBOC transmitters hitting the landfill. |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
"Brenda Ann" wrote:
"David Eduardo" wrote in message . com... "RHF" wrote in message ups.com... SW, "In addition, the LW band and the "Tropical" part of the SW band should be pressed into service for one or two 500,000 watt national coverage broadcasters - government sponsored (NPR?) " Americans increasingly will not listen to even local AM-quality radio. they certainly would not listen to fady, erratic SW. Glad you have a good grasp on your tiny little world Eduardo.. but a lot of the rest of us belong to a great big world with a lot of other choices besides the ones that the NAB wants to cram down our throats. [...] Brenda Ann, You've shown yourself to be one of the true voices of sanity on this newsgroup, and I do respect your viewpoints on various issues. However, I speak from personal experience when I say that arguing with Eduardo (and his cheerleading section) is about as effective as teaching a horse to sing. We, the radio listening public, are just going to have to wait for the decline of radio brought on by the likes of Eduardo to get serious enough that the bean-counters actually notice the downward trend. I haven't listened to commercial radio in years -- not without trying, mind you, but it is just boring and bland beyond hope. Arbitron will never figure it out, too. After the brilliance of Arbitron was pointed out to me (again and again and again), I finally got asked to participate in one of their surveys. Well, actually, my computer was asked. They just picked random phone number digits and came up with my computer modem line, and weren't actually interested in talking to the owner of that modem when I contacted them about participating in the survey. Well, our local water system's data line was also asked to participate, too. I hate to admit it, but radio as we've known it is finally dying. The bean counters won, radio lost. -- Eric F. Richards, "It’s easy to fall into the trap of thinking that the purpose of a business is to make money. But the real purpose of a business is to create value. While it’s possible to make money in the short run without creating much value, in the long run it’s unsustainable. Even criminal organizations have to create value for someone." - Steve Pavlina, April 10, 2006 |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
On Fri, 19 May 2006 15:38:40 +0900, "Brenda Ann"
wrote: "David Eduardo" wrote in message .com... "RHF" wrote in message ups.com... SW, "In addition, the LW band and the "Tropical" part of the SW band should be pressed into service for one or two 500,000 watt national coverage broadcasters - government sponsored (NPR?) " Americans increasingly will not listen to even local AM-quality radio. they certainly would not listen to fady, erratic SW. Glad you have a good grasp on your tiny little world Eduardo.. but a lot of the rest of us belong to a great big world with a lot of other choices besides the ones that the NAB wants to cram down our throats. I don't personally know ANYBODY outside of broadcasting that want's to put up with IBOC, and I know several BE's (and I am one of them) that consider it nothing but a QRM generator, and a major PITA to work with. Not to mention that anyone outside a few mile radius from the transmitter can't hear the digital signal to start with. This is proven by anecdotal evidence of numerous people who have purchased the $300 BA (down from $500) and attempted to use it in their local signal areas. That's simply not true. I get several stations from Mt. Wilson in pristine digital that are unlistenable in FM Stereo. |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
What planet are you referring to? Here on Earth, shortwave seems to be alive
and well, to me... "Eric F. Richards" wrote in message ... "Brenda Ann" wrote: "David Eduardo" wrote in message . com... "RHF" wrote in message ups.com... SW, "In addition, the LW band and the "Tropical" part of the SW band should be pressed into service for one or two 500,000 watt national coverage broadcasters - government sponsored (NPR?) " Americans increasingly will not listen to even local AM-quality radio. they certainly would not listen to fady, erratic SW. Glad you have a good grasp on your tiny little world Eduardo.. but a lot of the rest of us belong to a great big world with a lot of other choices besides the ones that the NAB wants to cram down our throats. [...] Brenda Ann, You've shown yourself to be one of the true voices of sanity on this newsgroup, and I do respect your viewpoints on various issues. However, I speak from personal experience when I say that arguing with Eduardo (and his cheerleading section) is about as effective as teaching a horse to sing. We, the radio listening public, are just going to have to wait for the decline of radio brought on by the likes of Eduardo to get serious enough that the bean-counters actually notice the downward trend. I haven't listened to commercial radio in years -- not without trying, mind you, but it is just boring and bland beyond hope. Arbitron will never figure it out, too. After the brilliance of Arbitron was pointed out to me (again and again and again), I finally got asked to participate in one of their surveys. Well, actually, my computer was asked. They just picked random phone number digits and came up with my computer modem line, and weren't actually interested in talking to the owner of that modem when I contacted them about participating in the survey. Well, our local water system's data line was also asked to participate, too. I hate to admit it, but radio as we've known it is finally dying. The bean counters won, radio lost. -- Eric F. Richards, "It's easy to fall into the trap of thinking that the purpose of a business is to make money. But the real purpose of a business is to create value. While it's possible to make money in the short run without creating much value, in the long run it's unsustainable. Even criminal organizations have to create value for someone." - Steve Pavlina, April 10, 2006 |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
"David" wrote in message ... On Fri, 19 May 2006 15:38:40 +0900, "Brenda Ann" wrote: "David Eduardo" wrote in message y.com... "RHF" wrote in message ups.com... SW, "In addition, the LW band and the "Tropical" part of the SW band should be pressed into service for one or two 500,000 watt national coverage broadcasters - government sponsored (NPR?) " Americans increasingly will not listen to even local AM-quality radio. they certainly would not listen to fady, erratic SW. Glad you have a good grasp on your tiny little world Eduardo.. but a lot of the rest of us belong to a great big world with a lot of other choices besides the ones that the NAB wants to cram down our throats. I don't personally know ANYBODY outside of broadcasting that want's to put up with IBOC, and I know several BE's (and I am one of them) that consider it nothing but a QRM generator, and a major PITA to work with. Not to mention that anyone outside a few mile radius from the transmitter can't hear the digital signal to start with. This is proven by anecdotal evidence of numerous people who have purchased the $300 BA (down from $500) and attempted to use it in their local signal areas. That's simply not true. I get several stations from Mt. Wilson in pristine digital that are unlistenable in FM Stereo. Good for you. That makes one person out of hundreds that I know. |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
David wrote: On Fri, 19 May 2006 23:13:39 +0900, "Brenda Ann" wrote: That's simply not true. I get several stations from Mt. Wilson in pristine digital that are unlistenable in FM Stereo. Good for you. That makes one person out of hundreds that I know. I'm sure it's very common in urban and natural canyons. Many places with severe multipath issues will benefit from the HD. Sure, the demise of DXing is sad, but we don't have hitching posts on Main Street nowadays either. Time marches on. Rickets, you wouldn't know DXing if it crawled its way past your haemorrhoids and decided to spend the winter up your ass. dxAce Michigan USA |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
In article ,
David wrote: That's simply not true. I get several stations from Mt. Wilson in pristine digital that are unlistenable in FM Stereo. VHF or Medium Wave? IBOC on .54-1.705 MHz just doesn't make sense, technically. Mark Zenier Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com) |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
Government-sponsored NPR? Not in my lifetime, I hope. They take some
money, yeah, ut I don't think George would be too happy with what he would hear there on any given day. And the programs are a lot of crap anyway. If you want to ear some real good radio, listen to CBC anytime before the year 2000. |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
Telamon wrote:
In article , "Brenda Ann" wrote: "David" wrote in message ... On 18 May 2006 09:16:29 -0700, "RHF" wrote: SbSw, "I think it would be cool to have long wave (LW) broadcasters in the USA. Ten 2 megawatt stations, on 10 frequencies, evenly spaced across the country would cover the entire lower 48 day and night." i like that idea ~ RHF . That's absurd. A satellite covers the whole country and uses way less energy. Yes, and a satellite also requires a directional antenna and special receiver (and a subscription). Putting LW into standard radios would cost almost nothing, and add little to the cost of a portable radio. How much energy did it take to put the satellite into orbit? How much power is used in the uplink effort? -- Telamon Ventura, California The actual uplink is usually in the 10 to 25 watt region for video, and it would take less for a narrow audio only signal. An all solid state microwave transmitter would only consume a few hundred watts. The studio equipment would use more energy than the uplink. BTW, i have been trying to track down the owner of an abandoned C-band video confrencing earth station that was built by Microdyne. I want the equipment because the system is serial number one, and the only uplink they ever built. -- Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to prove it. Member of DAV #85. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
|
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
"Jim Hackett" wrote:
What planet are you referring to? Here on Earth, shortwave seems to be alive and well, to me... Except BBC has stopped targeting N/A... as have several others... RCI is largely domestic programs... Media Network is long gone... The Happy Station is a long gone memory, and so on. But never mind that -- I was talking about *domestic* radio, as were Brenda Ann and Eduardo. "Eric F. Richards" wrote in message ... "Brenda Ann" wrote: "David Eduardo" wrote in message . com... "RHF" wrote in message ups.com... SW, "In addition, the LW band and the "Tropical" part of the SW band should be pressed into service for one or two 500,000 watt national coverage broadcasters - government sponsored (NPR?) " Americans increasingly will not listen to even local AM-quality radio. they certainly would not listen to fady, erratic SW. Glad you have a good grasp on your tiny little world Eduardo.. but a lot of the rest of us belong to a great big world with a lot of other choices besides the ones that the NAB wants to cram down our throats. [...] Brenda Ann, You've shown yourself to be one of the true voices of sanity on this newsgroup, and I do respect your viewpoints on various issues. However, I speak from personal experience when I say that arguing with Eduardo (and his cheerleading section) is about as effective as teaching a horse to sing. We, the radio listening public, are just going to have to wait for the decline of radio brought on by the likes of Eduardo to get serious enough that the bean-counters actually notice the downward trend. I haven't listened to commercial radio in years -- not without trying, mind you, but it is just boring and bland beyond hope. Arbitron will never figure it out, too. After the brilliance of Arbitron was pointed out to me (again and again and again), I finally got asked to participate in one of their surveys. Well, actually, my computer was asked. They just picked random phone number digits and came up with my computer modem line, and weren't actually interested in talking to the owner of that modem when I contacted them about participating in the survey. Well, our local water system's data line was also asked to participate, too. I hate to admit it, but radio as we've known it is finally dying. The bean counters won, radio lost. -- Eric F. Richards, "It's easy to fall into the trap of thinking that the purpose of a business is to make money. But the real purpose of a business is to create value. While it's possible to make money in the short run without creating much value, in the long run it's unsustainable. Even criminal organizations have to create value for someone." - Steve Pavlina, April 10, 2006 -- Eric F. Richards, "It’s easy to fall into the trap of thinking that the purpose of a business is to make money. But the real purpose of a business is to create value. While it’s possible to make money in the short run without creating much value, in the long run it’s unsustainable. Even criminal organizations have to create value for someone." - Steve Pavlina, April 10, 2006 |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
Yea, I saw that AFTER I replied. So... NEVERMIND...
"Eric F. Richards" wrote in message ... "Jim Hackett" wrote: What planet are you referring to? Here on Earth, shortwave seems to be alive and well, to me... Except BBC has stopped targeting N/A... as have several others... RCI is largely domestic programs... Media Network is long gone... The Happy Station is a long gone memory, and so on. But never mind that -- I was talking about *domestic* radio, as were Brenda Ann and Eduardo. "Eric F. Richards" wrote in message ... "Brenda Ann" wrote: "David Eduardo" wrote in message . com... "RHF" wrote in message ups.com... SW, "In addition, the LW band and the "Tropical" part of the SW band should be pressed into service for one or two 500,000 watt national coverage broadcasters - government sponsored (NPR?) " Americans increasingly will not listen to even local AM-quality radio. they certainly would not listen to fady, erratic SW. Glad you have a good grasp on your tiny little world Eduardo.. but a lot of the rest of us belong to a great big world with a lot of other choices besides the ones that the NAB wants to cram down our throats. [...] Brenda Ann, You've shown yourself to be one of the true voices of sanity on this newsgroup, and I do respect your viewpoints on various issues. However, I speak from personal experience when I say that arguing with Eduardo (and his cheerleading section) is about as effective as teaching a horse to sing. We, the radio listening public, are just going to have to wait for the decline of radio brought on by the likes of Eduardo to get serious enough that the bean-counters actually notice the downward trend. I haven't listened to commercial radio in years -- not without trying, mind you, but it is just boring and bland beyond hope. Arbitron will never figure it out, too. After the brilliance of Arbitron was pointed out to me (again and again and again), I finally got asked to participate in one of their surveys. Well, actually, my computer was asked. They just picked random phone number digits and came up with my computer modem line, and weren't actually interested in talking to the owner of that modem when I contacted them about participating in the survey. Well, our local water system's data line was also asked to participate, too. I hate to admit it, but radio as we've known it is finally dying. The bean counters won, radio lost. -- Eric F. Richards, "It's easy to fall into the trap of thinking that the purpose of a business is to make money. But the real purpose of a business is to create value. While it's possible to make money in the short run without creating much value, in the long run it's unsustainable. Even criminal organizations have to create value for someone." - Steve Pavlina, April 10, 2006 -- Eric F. Richards, "It's easy to fall into the trap of thinking that the purpose of a business is to make money. But the real purpose of a business is to create value. While it's possible to make money in the short run without creating much value, in the long run it's unsustainable. Even criminal organizations have to create value for someone." - Steve Pavlina, April 10, 2006 |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
In article ,
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Telamon wrote: In article , "Brenda Ann" wrote: "David" wrote in message ... On 18 May 2006 09:16:29 -0700, "RHF" wrote: SbSw, "I think it would be cool to have long wave (LW) broadcasters in the USA. Ten 2 megawatt stations, on 10 frequencies, evenly spaced across the country would cover the entire lower 48 day and night." i like that idea ~ RHF . That's absurd. A satellite covers the whole country and uses way less energy. Yes, and a satellite also requires a directional antenna and special receiver (and a subscription). Putting LW into standard radios would cost almost nothing, and add little to the cost of a portable radio. How much energy did it take to put the satellite into orbit? How much power is used in the uplink effort? -- Telamon Ventura, California The actual uplink is usually in the 10 to 25 watt region for video, and it would take less for a narrow audio only signal. An all solid state microwave transmitter would only consume a few hundred watts. The studio equipment would use more energy than the uplink. BTW, i have been trying to track down the owner of an abandoned C-band video confrencing earth station that was built by Microdyne. I want the equipment because the system is serial number one, and the only uplink they ever built. I figured a few hundred watts for uplink power of the final PA but as you mention there are facilities that need to be supported along with the uplink dish. People are often surprised at how much power is consumed by support facilities for the electronics, lights and air conditioning. I have managed facilities that consume 100 KW and did not transmit any signal, just lights, electronic equipment, air conditioning, and heating. People tend to forget the cost of putting the satellite into orbit. This is a cost that can not be ignored either. I don't know where you go looking for C band uplink equipment. -- Telamon Ventura, California |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
Not to mention all the supporting infrastructure. Those satellites
don't just float up into orbit all by themselves. |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
No one cares about AM analog, but even fewer care about digital radio.
Talk about a stillborn technology. |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
Telamon wrote in
: In article , "Brenda Ann" wrote: "David" wrote in message ... On 18 May 2006 09:16:29 -0700, "RHF" wrote: SbSw, "I think it would be cool to have long wave (LW) broadcasters in the USA. Ten 2 megawatt stations, on 10 frequencies, evenly spaced across the country would cover the entire lower 48 day and night." i like that idea ~ RHF . That's absurd. A satellite covers the whole country and uses way less energy. Yes, and a satellite also requires a directional antenna and special receiver (and a subscription). Putting LW into standard radios would cost almost nothing, and add little to the cost of a portable radio. How much energy did it take to put the satellite into orbit? How much power is used in the uplink effort? How much energy did it take to make your plastic shortwave? sc |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
On Fri, 19 May 2006 18:40:47 GMT, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote: Telamon wrote: In article , "Brenda Ann" wrote: "David" wrote in message ... On 18 May 2006 09:16:29 -0700, "RHF" wrote: SbSw, "I think it would be cool to have long wave (LW) broadcasters in the USA. Ten 2 megawatt stations, on 10 frequencies, evenly spaced across the country would cover the entire lower 48 day and night." i like that idea ~ RHF . That's absurd. A satellite covers the whole country and uses way less energy. Yes, and a satellite also requires a directional antenna and special receiver (and a subscription). Putting LW into standard radios would cost almost nothing, and add little to the cost of a portable radio. How much energy did it take to put the satellite into orbit? How much power is used in the uplink effort? -- Telamon Ventura, California The actual uplink is usually in the 10 to 25 watt region for video, and it would take less for a narrow audio only signal. An all solid state microwave transmitter would only consume a few hundred watts. The studio equipment would use more energy than the uplink. BTW, i have been trying to track down the owner of an abandoned C-band video confrencing earth station that was built by Microdyne. I want the equipment because the system is serial number one, and the only uplink they ever built. Uplinks are in the kiloWatts TPO. |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
On Fri, 19 May 2006 18:40:47 GMT, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote: The actual uplink is usually in the 10 to 25 watt region for video, and it would take less for a narrow audio only signal. An all solid state microwave transmitter would only consume a few hundred watts. The studio equipment would use more energy than the uplink. BTW, i have been trying to track down the owner of an abandoned C-band video confrencing earth station that was built by Microdyne. I want the equipment because the system is serial number one, and the only uplink they ever built. http://www.cpii.com/satcom/products/index.html?2092575# |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
David,
On that we can agree 101 re-broadcasts of Coast-to-Coast AM is not entertainment that will cause Late Night Radio Listeners to Tune-the-Dial to find something of interest. Require all 50 KW Clear Channel AM/MW Radio Stations to carry locally produced 'original' Programming from 5 AM to 10 AM in the Mornings and 7 AM to 12 Midnight in the Evenings. ~ RHF |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
I don't even watch those Nutjobs Leno (although Leno's auto articles in
Popular Mechanics www.popularmechanics.com magazine,I do read and I highly respect,at least that Nutjob does respect fine Automobiles and stuff) and Letterman on Radio tv. cuhulin |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
Telamon wrote:
In article , "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: The actual uplink is usually in the 10 to 25 watt region for video, and it would take less for a narrow audio only signal. An all solid state microwave transmitter would only consume a few hundred watts. The studio equipment would use more energy than the uplink. BTW, i have been trying to track down the owner of an abandoned C-band video confrencing earth station that was built by Microdyne. I want the equipment because the system is serial number one, and the only uplink they ever built. I figured a few hundred watts for uplink power of the final PA but as you mention there are facilities that need to be supported along with the uplink dish. People are often surprised at how much power is consumed by support facilities for the electronics, lights and air conditioning. I have managed facilities that consume 100 KW and did not transmit any signal, just lights, electronic equipment, air conditioning, and heating. WACX TV in Orange City Fl. has a 500 KW Onan diesel generator to power their 195 KW transmitter, the control room, air conditioning and tower lights in case of an emergency. People tend to forget the cost of putting the satellite into orbit. This is a cost that can not be ignored either. I don't know where you go looking for C band uplink equipment. -- Telamon Ventura, California When I worked in CATV back in the mid '80s the line was, "A 20 Watt TWT is worth $1,000 on the ground, and $1,000,000 in orbit". The Sat owner would auction off the useful life of each of the 24 transponders for about $1,000,000, depending on the type of bird, the shape of each antenna, and its orbital parking spot. Most had two to six spare TWTs that could be switched in when one of the 24 original TWTs failed, or got too weak to use. The output power of each transponder was controlled by the uplink power levels. The signals were uplinked in the 6 GHZ region, mixed against the onboard L.O. and retransmitted in the 4 GHZ region. This is an abandoned facility a couple miles from here, and I want the equipment to add to my collection of unique equipment built by my former employer (Microdyne). How often do you get a chance to collect something with serial number 1? Also, it is the earth station that was used by Captain Midnight to jam HBO over 20 years ago, so its a piece of history. -- Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to prove it. Member of DAV #85. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
"Brenda Ann" wrote in message ... "David Eduardo" wrote in message . net... wrote in message ... Mr.Eduardo,do a search for AM Radio Stations in America. And why do you think so many Americans are so interested in DXing for AM Radio Stations all over America? Actually, very few DXers are around any more. The largest DX club has only about 600 members now. Not everyone belongs to a club.. in fact I would guess that the number of actual DX'ers that belong to clubs versus the ones that don't is an infinitessimal percentage. Most simply enjoy the hobby/activity and don't want to pay dues to join a club. I personally know 10's of dozens of such people, and my circle of friends includes a lot more than engineer types and hardcore hobbyists. I don't know a single person that has had your experience with IBOC, and a lot that have had the opposite experience. In every market, we have had good HD experiences on AM and FM... NY, Miami, Dallas, Houston, Chicago, Phoenix, LA, San Diego, San Francisco, etc. All our engineers like it, and love the sound. Portland IBOC can interfere quite well with adjacent signals (AM), but cannot be heard in the outlying areas that normally get very good reception. The HD signal exceeds the USABLE Am and FM coutours in every case... unless you are using the Boston Acoustics Receptor, which is a bad HD radio. Several of the Portland stations (both AM and FM) have long been popular daily listens as far south as Salem, as far north as Longview/Kelso and as far west as Seaside, Tillamook and Astoria. To the east is a big problem due to topography. The AM IBOC signal can't even be heard without an external antenna as far as Beaverton or Troutdale, which are both part of the primary coverage (market) area. There are only a couple of receivers out, none with the second generation design specs. The first generation was a premble. It was not until this month that the HD consortium began promoting HD, and the new receivers will be in places like Radio Shack, Best Buy and Circuit City in the next 90 days in stage three of the rollout (one was to put HD on enough major market stations, two was to get programming on HD-2 channels, and three is to start promoting to consumers). . |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
"David Eduardo" wrote in message . com... "Brenda Ann" wrote in message ... "David Eduardo" wrote in message . net... wrote in message ... Mr.Eduardo,do a search for AM Radio Stations in America. And why do you think so many Americans are so interested in DXing for AM Radio Stations all over America? Actually, very few DXers are around any more. The largest DX club has only about 600 members now. Not everyone belongs to a club.. in fact I would guess that the number of actual DX'ers that belong to clubs versus the ones that don't is an infinitessimal percentage. Most simply enjoy the hobby/activity and don't want to pay dues to join a club. I personally know 10's of dozens of such people, and my circle of friends includes a lot more than engineer types and hardcore hobbyists. I don't know a single person that has had your experience with IBOC, and a lot that have had the opposite experience. In every market, we have had good HD experiences on AM and FM... NY, Miami, Dallas, Houston, Chicago, Phoenix, LA, San Diego, San Francisco, etc. All our engineers like it, and love the sound. Portland IBOC can interfere quite well with adjacent signals (AM), but cannot be heard in the outlying areas that normally get very good reception. The HD signal exceeds the USABLE Am and FM coutours in every case... unless you are using the Boston Acoustics Receptor, which is a bad HD radio. Several of the Portland stations (both AM and FM) have long been popular daily listens as far south as Salem, as far north as Longview/Kelso and as far west as Seaside, Tillamook and Astoria. To the east is a big problem due to topography. The AM IBOC signal can't even be heard without an external antenna as far as Beaverton or Troutdale, which are both part of the primary coverage (market) area. There are only a couple of receivers out, none with the second generation design specs. The first generation was a premble. It was not until this month that the HD consortium began promoting HD, and the new receivers will be in places like Radio Shack, Best Buy and Circuit City in the next 90 days in stage three of the rollout (one was to put HD on enough major market stations, two was to get programming on HD-2 channels, and three is to start promoting to consumers). . They can market them all they want. I don't know anyone personally that will buy one. They're just not willing to spend the sort of money to replace something that's been working just fine for them. And I doubt seriously that much of the general populus will want to replace the 5-10 analog radios they already have just for a joke of a digital signal. You keep talking about the contours.. well, those may look good on paper, they don't work in real life situations. You'll learn that when people start tuning out of your stations en-masse. I know that personally, I will never spend the money on IBOC receiving equipment. I won't spend a cent to replace something that has always worked with something of questionable value in general and no value whatsoever to me. IBOC interferes with adjacent channel stations. This is just poor engineering, and something that would never have been allowed in the days when the FCC was composed of engineers instead of greedy politicians. I was just talking to a friend of mine on the Oregon coast who has been listening regularly to KONA in the tri-cities on 610 for decades. He can no longer listen to it because KPOJ 620 in Portland turned on their IBOC and is splattering 15KHz either side of their carrier. You can do your best to talk up this boondoggle, but most of us see it for what it is.. just another way for the NAB to screw the little guy, including the listeners. I think you'll find that rather than buy expensive new radios, that listeners will just turn off their radios and go to other entertainment modes.. this is already largely the case with Ipods, portable CD and MD players, etc. Most young people don't even own a radio anymore, it's too easy for them to get the music they want, load it onto a personal portable device, and hear what they want, when they want, without incessant DJ patter and endless advertisements. |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
In every market, we have had good HD experiences on AM and FM... NY,
Miami, Dallas, Houston, Chicago, Phoenix, LA, San Diego, San Francisco, etc. All our engineers like it, and love the sound. I call BS. I have personal reports that AM IBOC cannot be heard in downtown Manhattan on a display radio. Our (AFN) engineers say their crap sounds great, too. Yet the AM is full of drops (not dropouts, the equipment actually shuts down for a half second every minute or so), it is also overmodulated, clipped and overcompressed. They also only feed one half a stereo feed into it, which makes it interesting to listen to. The FM in many plants is either out of phase (stereo mpx), shrill, or severely over or under modulated. I'm a former broadcast engineer myself. I would be ashamed to claim I was anywhere near any of these AFN sites. Me internet radio station sounds better than any of them but their FM flagship, and it's only a 56K stereo stream, I don't EXPECT it to sound like a good broadcast station. |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
On Fri, 19 May 2006 15:48:46 GMT, (Mark Zenier)
wrote: In article , David wrote: That's simply not true. I get several stations from Mt. Wilson in pristine digital that are unlistenable in FM Stereo. VHF or Medium Wave? IBOC on .54-1.705 MHz just doesn't make sense, technically. Mark Zenier Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com) http://www.well.com/~dmsml/wilson.html I agree. DRM would be better. But Eureka 147 15 years ago would've been better, too. |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
Radio Buff wrote:
Telamon wrote: How much energy did it take to put the satellite into orbit? How much power is used in the uplink effort? How much energy did it take to make your plastic shortwave? Probably about 0.00003 seconds worth of rocket burn. -- Britney Spears' Guide to Semiconductor Physics http://britneyspears.ac/lasers.htm |
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
David Eduardo wrote:
"Eric F. Richards" wrote... Arbitron will never figure it out, too. Arbitron uses a percentage of RDD calls (Random Digit Dialing) to know prefixes. This is to pick up unlisted phones in proportion with their presence in each metro. Some will be inactive. Some will not answer. Some will be faxes. So they perform enough calls to get the proper quota of unlisted numbers to get market proportionality. It doesn't matter that the comedian expected to get the pie in his face, it's still funny to watch it happen. -- Britney Spears' Guide to Semiconductor Physics http://britneyspears.ac/lasers.htm |
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