Dayton HamFest killed by hams themselve
 

"Peter Wieck" ) writes:
I was curious about the way it was run so I talked to the group that
organized the event every year. You wouldn't believe the crap they have
to wade through to run a hamfest that size, even though the money raised
is used to provide emergency communications for the area.


THAT is the single largest obstacle to these events. It is not simply a
matter of finding a vacant bit of ground and throwing up a few signs.
In this lawsuit-happy society, there is Insurance (liability, property,
fire, and so forth), staffing, cleaning, trash-removal, contacting food
vendors (and verifying their insurance) and much, much more. Is
whatever equipment you are providing also insured? What about any
electrical devices? Fences? Guide ropes? ADA compliant? Sufficient
facilities? Will food be served? Are they insured? Licensed in *that*
township? Board-of-Health certificates? What about the servers? Any
contraband/knock-offs/unlicensed material being sold? Sales tax
collected?

And so forth. Not small. My wife's church (a very small one) carries a
$1,000,000 policy on any internal events held by non-church groups
_AND_ they insist that these groups also carry a *specific* policy for
the event.

So it is not just collecting table-fees and admission-fees.

I still think that closed-ended events for dedicated hobbyists are bad
ideas anyway, but I am not unsympathetic to the complications involved.

But in some ways, Dayton may be an exception, or at least one of a handful
of exceptions.

Dayton is big because it draws people, not just from the local area but
from far away. Costs go up as size goes up. I'm willing to accept
that some hamfests are "insider" events.

But you're right that hamfests should be used as a recruitment tool,
and certainly the smaller they get the more their survival requires
a wider swatch of the population.

The local hamfests here in Montreal do not publicize outside of
ham circles. At least, I don't see it and if I didn't know
about the ham clubs and the hamfests I'd not know that they were
happening. For most of a decade, I've at least posted to the local
buy and sell newsgroup when one of the hamfests is about to happen,
and less regularly I post about the others. I'm not sellng the hamfest,
but trying to get the word out.

I give the details, but also a spiel because I'm aware that people
who don't know need to be informed. I make the point that visiting
is a way of finding out about amateur radio, and that the hamfest
can be a valuable resource for non-ham. Shortwave listeners may
find things of interest, the electronic hobbyist will find things,
and of course in recent years computer types may find things.

And while few will see the message, relative speaking, it may be
the only time most of the readers see a mention of amateur radio
in that year. The way I see it, it's not just about selling tickets
to the hamfest, but it's an excuse to get amateur radio out into
the world.

When I was a kid, I found out about the hobby because there was
an article in a general purpose magazine. I found out that the
rules were about to change to allow people under fifteen to get
licenses in the local paper. But that sort of thing happens less
and less. At the very least, some promotion of the hamfest is
a means of letting new people see something about the hobby, and
maybe pursuing it further.

And sustainability is a factor. The biggest of the local hamfests
is fairly small. SOme years back, one had to cancel because they'd
not sold enough tables ahead of time, the next year they came back
in a much smaller space that doesn't allow for growth. Had they
been promoting the fleamarket outside ham circles ahead of time,
they could have attracted "fellow travellers", the SWLs and the
electronic hobbyists and even the computer types, to fill the empty
tables.

Michael VE2BVW

Dayton HamFest killed by E-Bay
 

I am a new Ham and have been to two ham fests this year put on by local
clubs. Very disappointing. I thought maybe I could get some used
equipment
since I had none. If I had been looking for 23 channel CBs or obsolete
computer junk I would have been all set. I thought selling old 23
channel Cbs was illegal because of the power.There was a real dealer at
the one so I got a new VX 150 from them.Got home and there was no
paperwork in the box. Went back to get it at 11:45 AM. The thing was
suppose to last till 1PM.
Everyone was already packing up all their junk.This dealer had no time
to find my manual and stuff and said they would mail it.Took 2 weeks.
Lucky for me I found a manuel on line. I'll still try different ham
fests but if the granddaddy was a bust I don't know about the small
clubs.

Ebay & "The Market"
 

"John S." wrote:

Internet based sales have a huge advantage over in-place sales like
Dayton. Ebay and other sales sites can as we all know bring sellers
from around the world at any time of the day. It just isn't possible
to get that kind of coverage at an arena in Ohio.


E-bay and other on line auctions can never replace spotting a part or
piece of equipment you need that isn't worth the dealers time to list,
or would cost too much to ship. More than once I've asked about
something and was told to take it, so they didn't have to haul it home.
I've never seen an E-bay listing giving something away, and paying the
shipping to your door.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Dayton HamFest killed by E-Bay
 

managed to get to one 35 minutes before official opening time.
I was surpised to see the smart buyers already walking out with
boxes full of all the good stuff !
The best items sell, as the spots are still being set up.


Shuuuu, don't tell everyone. That's half to reason to get a
flea market space. That way most of the time you get in
before the general public and scoop up the good deals....

Ron
--

Radio Collection Web Page,
http://www.radioheaven.homestead.com

Ebay & "The Market"
 

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...
"John S." wrote:

Internet based sales have a huge advantage over in-place sales like
Dayton. Ebay and other sales sites can as we all know bring sellers
from around the world at any time of the day. It just isn't possible
to get that kind of coverage at an arena in Ohio.


E-bay and other on line auctions can never replace spotting a part or
piece of equipment you need that isn't worth the dealers time to list,
or would cost too much to ship. More than once I've asked about
something and was told to take it, so they didn't have to haul it home.
I've never seen an E-bay listing giving something away, and paying the
shipping to your door.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

You have a point there - not that I totally agree with the poster you
replied to. I've had some real bargains "handed" to me so they didn't have
to be hauled home.
Actually, each venue has its own place in life. Problem with Dayton and
other hamfests is between fuel costs and so on - there are more and more
factors involved keeping people away. Ham radio itself isn't what it used to
be. Then, some clubs who've had them - as I've heard it - had inner battles
as to how things are to be done and so on. So club politics played a part
along the line. I'm sure we could list many reasons for failures as they're
being seen. Question is, who has the "answers"? Times are changing. Things
change with time and I see it here in my own town - People DO NOT like
change. I'm sorry to see some things go too - but there's not much you can
do about some things.

Ebay & "The Market"
 

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
"John S." wrote:

Internet based sales have a huge advantage over in-place sales like
Dayton. Ebay and other sales sites can as we all know bring sellers
from around the world at any time of the day. It just isn't possible
to get that kind of coverage at an arena in Ohio.


E-bay and other on line auctions can never replace spotting a part or
piece of equipment you need that isn't worth the dealers time to list,
or would cost too much to ship. More than once I've asked about
something and was told to take it, so they didn't have to haul it home.
I've never seen an E-bay listing giving something away, and paying the
shipping to your door.

Clearly Ebay and other internet sites won't completely replace in
person sales, be it a hamfest, garage sale or estate auction. But the
ease of bringing large numbers of buyers and sellers together via some
internet connection has had a significant impact on brick and mortar
operations. The ease of transacting a sale electronically be it for a
Kenwood 940 or a spinning wheel can't be ignored. And the sellers that
fail to react in some way will be left behind.

Dayton HamFest killed by E-Bay
 

I have a friend who's a professional flea marketeer, he told me that
for an 8 AM opening time, he's already walking around at 6:30 AM buying
stuff- and by the time the public gets there, the stuff that's worth
$200, that was selling for $25-50, is gone- other marketeers already
bought it

then, they put it on ebay when they get home

what doesn't sell, goes back to the market 2 weeks later

constant cycle

the average joe can get lucky here and there, and find some stuff under
bushels, etc., or from someone that set up late, or someone that
finally moved off a high price

but for the most part, the VERY early bird, gets the worm

Ebay & "The Market"
 

anything you see sitting at a flea market late in the day, was most
likely already tried on ebay, and didn't reach reserve, or got no bids.
sometimes you'll see stuff at flea markets that seems valuable, and
underpriced, and no one is biting

that's cuz the marketeers already know, that particular item is
hammered on ebay, too many listed, and the price is down- so they are
cutting their losses and just dumping it

marketeers will tell you, they'd rather sell it cheaper at the show,
than for slightly more on ebay- because of ebay and paypal fees, and
packaging work involved- and nitpicking assholes like DeserTBob on
EBay, who want gold for a penny and free shipping

Dayton HamFest killed by E-Bay
 

you've obviously never been to our local flea markets here, Peter

I bought a pair of speakers for $10, that sold for $400 on ebay

Dayton HamFest killed by E-Bay
 

I'll have to agree with this. I found what I was looking for plus an
old Allied A2516 tube ham receiver practically given away because it
had a blown fuse and missing cover screws. Other than that a great
time seeing old friends, alot of new stuff, and the weather was
perfect. I don't think Ebay can steal any of that. Maybe it wasn't
the best place to find antique radios, but it's a HAMfest and old
radios are not the majority of what you find there. If anyone thinks
that the crowd is less because of Ebay, wrong!! Hamfest numbers have
drifted downward in the past few years due to diminishing ranks in Ham
Radio. Now if this were a computer show you'd see a bigger crowd.
In short, you get what you get out of a Hamfest. Just because you
don't find alot of give aways at the flea market doesn't mean it's a
disaster. There is always plenty of other things to do. This is true
for the smaller hamfests as well.