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"RP Jones" wrote in message . ..
With out doubt, most new hardware looks like its built to be thrown away and crushed. "Built in absolesance" Its a dam shame ! Id agree on Tek for scopes and HP for analyzers, if you look on Ebay HP "as is" scopes with problems must out number the Tek's 10-1. (Many developed push button/switchpad related problems) "gw" wrote in message isn't it true that the older stuff is built like a battleship and isn't as proprietary and can be repaired with user obtainable parts? I always heard tek for scopes and hp for analyzers. Any thoughts on that? what is a good spectrum analyzer to have for a home shop in your opinion, and also what is a good scope to have and do you have to break the bank on this stuff? thanks. |
what is a good spectrum analyzer to have for a home shop in your opinion, and also what is a good scope to have and do you have to break the bank on this stuff? thanks. What specs do you want, and how much do you want to spend? The HP 141T series is great for technically-inclined hams. Very maintainable, very reliable once you understand its quirks, very competitive performance... and very big and heavy. Typically $1K or less on eBay for a working outfit. Tek's 492-497 series are also excellent analyzers. Newer and much more portable than the 141T series, but still easily maintainable (via parts units and aftermarket suppliers, not through Tek). Quite a bit more expensive in most cases. $2K - $7K depending on model and options. HP 8560-series analyzers are also very nice; I have no personal experience with these, though. Stay away from the cheaper (8557/8/9) HP units. Tek's older 491 is probably also best avoided in favor of the 141T line (this is probably where the saying "HP for analyzers" came from.) Tek analyzers from the 2780 series should also be avoided by most users. They are still extremely expensive ($7K and up), and like the older 490/2750 analyzers no parts or manuals can be ordered from Tek anymore. However, unlike the 490/2750 units, they can be calibrated only with special PC-based configurations connected to specific test sources via GPIB and running obsolete software. Worse, Tek supported them only via module exchange, never releasing any component-level schematics. These are very powerful instruments, but keeping a 2782 or 2784 running nowadays would be a serious, ongoing research project in itself. These were symptomatic of the "bean-counter" generation at Tek, where customer needs were considered secondary to high-priced, proprietary product support and finite market lifetime. -- jm ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.qsl.net/ke5fx Note: My E-mail address has been altered to avoid spam ------------------------------------------------------ |
johnm wrote in message ...
what is a good spectrum analyzer to have for a home shop in your opinion, and also what is a good scope to have and do you have to break the bank on this stuff? thanks. What specs do you want, and how much do you want to spend? The HP 141T series is great for technically-inclined hams. Very maintainable, very reliable once you understand its quirks, very competitive performance... and very big and heavy. Typically $1K or less on eBay for a working outfit. Tek's 492-497 series are also excellent analyzers. Newer and much more portable than the 141T series, but still easily maintainable (via parts units and aftermarket suppliers, not through Tek). Quite a bit more expensive in most cases. $2K - $7K depending on model and options. HP 8560-series analyzers are also very nice; I have no personal experience with these, though. Stay away from the cheaper (8557/8/9) HP units. Tek's older 491 is probably also best avoided in favor of the 141T line (this is probably where the saying "HP for analyzers" came from.) Tek analyzers from the 2780 series should also be avoided by most users. They are still extremely expensive ($7K and up), and like the older 490/2750 analyzers no parts or manuals can be ordered from Tek anymore. However, unlike the 490/2750 units, they can be calibrated only with special PC-based configurations connected to specific test sources via GPIB and running obsolete software. Worse, Tek supported them only via module exchange, never releasing any component-level schematics. These are very powerful instruments, but keeping a 2782 or 2784 running nowadays would be a serious, ongoing research project in itself. These were symptomatic of the "bean-counter" generation at Tek, where customer needs were considered secondary to high-priced, proprietary product support and finite market lifetime. -- jm ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.qsl.net/ke5fx Note: My E-mail address has been altered to avoid spam ------------------------------------------------------ how about a 8569b ? some guy has one on ebay now for about $3,000.00......i might pull the trigger on that one.....I would be using it for hf work. I was considering a 141t from tucker . it cost more but at least you know it works. i was going to get the 8552b and 8553b plugins with it. then you have to round up the connecting cables and manuals for them. comments? oh by the way i have read good things about the hp 8569b's. if they work. |
what is a good spectrum analyzer to have for a home shop in your opinion, and also what is a good scope to have and do you have to break the bank on this stuff? thanks. A tek 7000 mainframe is my spectrum analyzer, and backup scope. I have a 7L5 plugin for 0-5MHz, and 7L13 for 0.1 to 1800 MHz I also have the companion tracking generator. This stuff was all aquired piecemeal at hamfests, and in total, probably set me back $1k. I've had it for (eek!) 13 years! The 7000 series is getting long in the tooth, but there's a ton of plugins out there cheap, and they are very nice instruments. Generally, get the best scope you can afford, and "give till it hurts". :) My current scope is a TDS-420 4 channel DSO. It wasn't cheap, except in relative terms, but it's my main tool for earning a living, and I wouldn't want to work with less. Depending on what you want to do with it, you might be ok with a 100 or even 60 MHz non-storage analog scope. You want the bandwidth to be the frequency you'll be working at. Assuming 11M applications, I'd say 60 would be marginal, 100 definitely better. Also, GET GOOD PROBES! I just re-probed at Dayton this year, I think I spent $800 or so on probes. I got two sets of very nice probes (8 probes total) plus a set of lesser quality "everyday" probes that I use when I'm not really pushing the limits. Save the good ones for when it matters. Some old BNC cable with clipleads will work at audio, but you wouldn't want to debug a switching power supply with it! |
"John Miles" wrote in message ... In article , says... johnm wrote in message ... what is a good spectrum analyzer to have for a home shop in your opinion, and also what is a good scope to have and do you have to break the bank on this stuff? thanks. SNIP how about a 8569b ? some guy has one on ebay now for about $3,000.00......i might pull the trigger on that one.....I would be using it for hf work. I was considering a 141t from tucker . it cost more but at least you know it works. i was going to get the 8552b and 8553b plugins with it. then you have to round up the connecting cables and manuals for them. comments? oh by the way i have read good things about the hp 8569b's. if they work. My guess is that the 8569b would be a very passable unit. Its specs seem competitive with an optioned-out Tek 492 in most respects, except that it only goes down to 10 MHz (perhaps there's an underrange capability that lets it see lower frequencies?) That might be a concern if you're going to be using it mostly for HF work. SNIP The 141Ts at Tucker seem like a pretty good deal. I believe they all come with new CRTs. I personally like to buy broken models on eBay and fix them up. It's cheaper, you get really familiar with the gear inside and out, and you always have spare parts on hand. But that strategy isn't for everybody. -- jm As I have HP-141's, an HP-8569, an 8566B and an 8562A, let me drop a few comments here. The 141's are the best deal for a hobbyist. You can acquire the slightly better 8552B IF section, and then get only the RF plug-in that suits your needs (an 8556, with it's built-in tracking generator, for a few Hz to 300 kHz, or an 8555, for 10 MHz through umpteen GHz, assuming you also get the external mixers). Unfortunately, by the time a hobbyist gets one of these, it has been abused and neglected by its last commercial owner. CRT burns are common, and the flood-gun analog memory may be very quirky. For an advanced hobbyist, either get an associated Polaroid scope camera, or build your own camera hood. You can capture a lot of transient things that way, and you can scan the pixs to input into your computer. Also, HP made a line of oscilloscope plug-ins that fit the 141 mainframe, so you can use the 141 as a multi-channel analog memory oscilloscope too. 141's are a pain in two ways; first, you have to externally store extra plug-ins, and secondly, the hard side handles make carrying one a painful experience beyond about 50 feet. Also, you tend to injure your fingertips sliding those bulky plug-ins in and out past the big metal front handles. The 141 may also be the last of the hobbyist repairable analyzers; newer analyzers use proprietary chips and are built too dense to let you get fingers and probes into them. The 8562A is old (1987) but a superb analyzer, 1 kHz to 18 GHz, all digital and synthesized. This will do everything you want, except drive a parallel or RS-232 printer directly. If you're smart enough to talk to it by IEEE-488, then you can do everything through the computer. Other 856x series units have lesser capabilities, but are still great analyzers, and just might be priced low enough for a very serious hobbyist. Also, the HP-859x series are very good, although some have odd frequency, memory and IO capabilities. All 856x & 859x series units are one-man portables, until your knuckles turn white and numb. The 8569 is, in my opinion, a transitional beast between the analog and digital worlds. It's not as stable and simple as the 8562A, although it's a leap above the 141. Since it's wide, it's also awkward to carry using it's handle. I'm not much of a fan of the 8569. The 8566B is HP's top-of-the-line analyzer. They threw down the benchmark for everyone else to try to meet. Mine is customized a bit, covering 20 Hz to 22 GHz, and with an external tracking pre-selector, optional detectors, programmable attenuators, RF path switching and low-noise pre-amps. My company has a number of somewhat more plain-vanilla 8566B's and 8566A's. There isn't anything I need to do that these units fall short of (uhh, with the help of some external IEEE-488 linked computers). OTOH, these are now obsolete, non-supported by Agilent, and need two guys to carry one. Mine is in a 60" tall dedicated rack. Typical used price is around $20k. Most companies will be better served with one of Agilent's newer EPA or SPA analyzers. Anritsu and Rohde & Schwartz are also making fine analyzers. IIRC, Leader makes an analyzer that a hobbyist may aspire to affording. I would say that a 141 is still the best hobbyist choice. A company needs to be sure that they get a usable item for their money, so buying on eBay is a gamble. A company should buy from some place like Tucker, where they get a warranty backed by a reputable source. Yeah, it initially costs more. But it's a lot safer than having to try to repair an analyzer when you need that analyzer to do the real work of your company. A hobbyist can afford to spend 50 to 100 hours to get something going; in a business environment, where the clock is always ticking, that's unacceptable. Ed wb6wsn |
"Ed Price" wrote in message news:tPmtb.4837$cX1.463@fed1read02...
"John Miles" wrote in message ... In article , says... johnm wrote in message ... what is a good spectrum analyzer to have for a home shop in your opinion, and also what is a good scope to have and do you have to break the bank on this stuff? thanks. SNIP how about a 8569b ? some guy has one on ebay now for about $3,000.00......i might pull the trigger on that one.....I would be using it for hf work. I was considering a 141t from tucker . it cost more but at least you know it works. i was going to get the 8552b and 8553b plugins with it. then you have to round up the connecting cables and manuals for them. comments? oh by the way i have read good things about the hp 8569b's. if they work. My guess is that the 8569b would be a very passable unit. Its specs seem competitive with an optioned-out Tek 492 in most respects, except that it only goes down to 10 MHz (perhaps there's an underrange capability that lets it see lower frequencies?) That might be a concern if you're going to be using it mostly for HF work. SNIP The 141Ts at Tucker seem like a pretty good deal. I believe they all come with new CRTs. I personally like to buy broken models on eBay and fix them up. It's cheaper, you get really familiar with the gear inside and out, and you always have spare parts on hand. But that strategy isn't for everybody. -- jm As I have HP-141's, an HP-8569, an 8566B and an 8562A, let me drop a few comments here. The 141's are the best deal for a hobbyist. You can acquire the slightly better 8552B IF section, and then get only the RF plug-in that suits your needs (an 8556, with it's built-in tracking generator, for a few Hz to 300 kHz, or an 8555, for 10 MHz through umpteen GHz, assuming you also get the external mixers). Unfortunately, by the time a hobbyist gets one of these, it has been abused and neglected by its last commercial owner. CRT burns are common, and the flood-gun analog memory may be very quirky. For an advanced hobbyist, either get an associated Polaroid scope camera, or build your own camera hood. You can capture a lot of transient things that way, and you can scan the pixs to input into your computer. Also, HP made a line of oscilloscope plug-ins that fit the 141 mainframe, so you can use the 141 as a multi-channel analog memory oscilloscope too. 141's are a pain in two ways; first, you have to externally store extra plug-ins, and secondly, the hard side handles make carrying one a painful experience beyond about 50 feet. Also, you tend to injure your fingertips sliding those bulky plug-ins in and out past the big metal front handles. The 141 may also be the last of the hobbyist repairable analyzers; newer analyzers use proprietary chips and are built too dense to let you get fingers and probes into them. The 8562A is old (1987) but a superb analyzer, 1 kHz to 18 GHz, all digital and synthesized. This will do everything you want, except drive a parallel or RS-232 printer directly. If you're smart enough to talk to it by IEEE-488, then you can do everything through the computer. Other 856x series units have lesser capabilities, but are still great analyzers, and just might be priced low enough for a very serious hobbyist. Also, the HP-859x series are very good, although some have odd frequency, memory and IO capabilities. All 856x & 859x series units are one-man portables, until your knuckles turn white and numb. The 8569 is, in my opinion, a transitional beast between the analog and digital worlds. It's not as stable and simple as the 8562A, although it's a leap above the 141. Since it's wide, it's also awkward to carry using it's handle. I'm not much of a fan of the 8569. The 8566B is HP's top-of-the-line analyzer. They threw down the benchmark for everyone else to try to meet. Mine is customized a bit, covering 20 Hz to 22 GHz, and with an external tracking pre-selector, optional detectors, programmable attenuators, RF path switching and low-noise pre-amps. My company has a number of somewhat more plain-vanilla 8566B's and 8566A's. There isn't anything I need to do that these units fall short of (uhh, with the help of some external IEEE-488 linked computers). OTOH, these are now obsolete, non-supported by Agilent, and need two guys to carry one. Mine is in a 60" tall dedicated rack. Typical used price is around $20k. Most companies will be better served with one of Agilent's newer EPA or SPA analyzers. Anritsu and Rohde & Schwartz are also making fine analyzers. IIRC, Leader makes an analyzer that a hobbyist may aspire to affording. I would say that a 141 is still the best hobbyist choice. A company needs to be sure that they get a usable item for their money, so buying on eBay is a gamble. A company should buy from some place like Tucker, where they get a warranty backed by a reputable source. Yeah, it initially costs more. But it's a lot safer than having to try to repair an analyzer when you need that analyzer to do the real work of your company. A hobbyist can afford to spend 50 to 100 hours to get something going; in a business environment, where the clock is always ticking, that's unacceptable. Ed wb6wsn didn't the 141t's come out in the late 60's? I believe I read somewhere that the hp 8566b came out in 1995 and cost around $75,000 new, and like you stated I have read that it is the best spectrum analyzer ever built. I see them for about $10,000.00 to $12,000.00 starting on ebay but I would have some serious problems laying out that kind of money for a item on ebay. Thanks for the info. For all I know the 141t might serve my purposes just fine. I will look and see if tucker has one of those 8562a's though. |
"Ed Price" wrote in message news:tPmtb.4837$cX1.463@fed1read02...
"John Miles" wrote in message ... In article , says... johnm wrote in message ... what is a good spectrum analyzer to have for a home shop in your opinion, and also what is a good scope to have and do you have to break the bank on this stuff? thanks. SNIP how about a 8569b ? some guy has one on ebay now for about $3,000.00......i might pull the trigger on that one.....I would be using it for hf work. I was considering a 141t from tucker . it cost more but at least you know it works. i was going to get the 8552b and 8553b plugins with it. then you have to round up the connecting cables and manuals for them. comments? oh by the way i have read good things about the hp 8569b's. if they work. My guess is that the 8569b would be a very passable unit. Its specs seem competitive with an optioned-out Tek 492 in most respects, except that it only goes down to 10 MHz (perhaps there's an underrange capability that lets it see lower frequencies?) That might be a concern if you're going to be using it mostly for HF work. SNIP The 141Ts at Tucker seem like a pretty good deal. I believe they all come with new CRTs. I personally like to buy broken models on eBay and fix them up. It's cheaper, you get really familiar with the gear inside and out, and you always have spare parts on hand. But that strategy isn't for everybody. -- jm As I have HP-141's, an HP-8569, an 8566B and an 8562A, let me drop a few comments here. The 141's are the best deal for a hobbyist. You can acquire the slightly better 8552B IF section, and then get only the RF plug-in that suits your needs (an 8556, with it's built-in tracking generator, for a few Hz to 300 kHz, or an 8555, for 10 MHz through umpteen GHz, assuming you also get the external mixers). Unfortunately, by the time a hobbyist gets one of these, it has been abused and neglected by its last commercial owner. CRT burns are common, and the flood-gun analog memory may be very quirky. For an advanced hobbyist, either get an associated Polaroid scope camera, or build your own camera hood. You can capture a lot of transient things that way, and you can scan the pixs to input into your computer. Also, HP made a line of oscilloscope plug-ins that fit the 141 mainframe, so you can use the 141 as a multi-channel analog memory oscilloscope too. 141's are a pain in two ways; first, you have to externally store extra plug-ins, and secondly, the hard side handles make carrying one a painful experience beyond about 50 feet. Also, you tend to injure your fingertips sliding those bulky plug-ins in and out past the big metal front handles. The 141 may also be the last of the hobbyist repairable analyzers; newer analyzers use proprietary chips and are built too dense to let you get fingers and probes into them. The 8562A is old (1987) but a superb analyzer, 1 kHz to 18 GHz, all digital and synthesized. This will do everything you want, except drive a parallel or RS-232 printer directly. If you're smart enough to talk to it by IEEE-488, then you can do everything through the computer. Other 856x series units have lesser capabilities, but are still great analyzers, and just might be priced low enough for a very serious hobbyist. Also, the HP-859x series are very good, although some have odd frequency, memory and IO capabilities. All 856x & 859x series units are one-man portables, until your knuckles turn white and numb. The 8569 is, in my opinion, a transitional beast between the analog and digital worlds. It's not as stable and simple as the 8562A, although it's a leap above the 141. Since it's wide, it's also awkward to carry using it's handle. I'm not much of a fan of the 8569. The 8566B is HP's top-of-the-line analyzer. They threw down the benchmark for everyone else to try to meet. Mine is customized a bit, covering 20 Hz to 22 GHz, and with an external tracking pre-selector, optional detectors, programmable attenuators, RF path switching and low-noise pre-amps. My company has a number of somewhat more plain-vanilla 8566B's and 8566A's. There isn't anything I need to do that these units fall short of (uhh, with the help of some external IEEE-488 linked computers). OTOH, these are now obsolete, non-supported by Agilent, and need two guys to carry one. Mine is in a 60" tall dedicated rack. Typical used price is around $20k. Most companies will be better served with one of Agilent's newer EPA or SPA analyzers. Anritsu and Rohde & Schwartz are also making fine analyzers. IIRC, Leader makes an analyzer that a hobbyist may aspire to affording. I would say that a 141 is still the best hobbyist choice. A company needs to be sure that they get a usable item for their money, so buying on eBay is a gamble. A company should buy from some place like Tucker, where they get a warranty backed by a reputable source. Yeah, it initially costs more. But it's a lot safer than having to try to repair an analyzer when you need that analyzer to do the real work of your company. A hobbyist can afford to spend 50 to 100 hours to get something going; in a business environment, where the clock is always ticking, that's unacceptable. Ed wb6wsn wow! I just looked at the tucker catalogue and the 8562a's are going for $17,000.00. Looks like they don't want to give that one away either. Seems like if you want a nice analyzer for your home shop you had better go out and get yourself a home equity loan because you are going to need it... do you know anything about the hp 180t series mainframes with assorted plugins? They have some of those also. |
"gw" wrote in message m... "Ed Price" wrote in message news:tPmtb.4837$cX1.463@fed1read02... "John Miles" wrote in message ... In article , says... johnm wrote in message ... what is a good spectrum analyzer to have for a home shop in your SNIP wow! I just looked at the tucker catalogue and the 8562a's are going for $17,000.00. Looks like they don't want to give that one away either. Seems like if you want a nice analyzer for your home shop you had better go out and get yourself a home equity loan because you are going to need it... do you know anything about the hp 180t series mainframes with assorted plugins? They have some of those also. IIRC, the 180 mainframe was a different form-factor than the 141. The 180 stacked up a bit more like a big oscilloscope. Ed wb6wsn |
"gw" wrote in message om... "Ed Price" wrote in message news:tPmtb.4837$cX1.463@fed1read02... "John Miles" wrote in message ... In article , says... johnm wrote in message ... what is a good spectrum analyzer to have for a home shop in your opinion, and also what is a good scope to have and do you have to break the bank on this stuff? thanks. SNIP The 141Ts at Tucker seem like a pretty good deal. I believe they all come with new CRTs. I personally like to buy broken models on eBay and fix them up. It's cheaper, you get really familiar with the gear inside and out, and you always have spare parts on hand. But that strategy isn't for everybody. -- jm As I have HP-141's, an HP-8569, an 8566B and an 8562A, let me drop a few comments here. The 141's are the best deal for a hobbyist. You can acquire the slightly better 8552B IF section, and then get only the RF plug-in that suits your needs (an 8556, with it's built-in tracking generator, for a few Hz to 300 kHz, or an 8555, for 10 MHz through umpteen GHz, assuming you also get the external mixers). Unfortunately, by the time a hobbyist gets one of these, it has been abused and neglected by its last commercial owner. CRT burns are common, and the flood-gun analog memory may be very quirky. For an advanced hobbyist, either get an associated Polaroid scope camera, or build your own camera hood. You can capture a lot of transient things that way, and you can scan the pixs to input into your computer. Also, HP made a line of oscilloscope plug-ins that fit the 141 mainframe, so you can use the 141 as a multi-channel analog memory oscilloscope too. 141's are a pain in two ways; first, you have to externally store extra plug-ins, and secondly, the hard side handles make carrying one a painful experience beyond about 50 feet. Also, you tend to injure your fingertips sliding those bulky plug-ins in and out past the big metal front handles. The 141 may also be the last of the hobbyist repairable analyzers; newer analyzers use proprietary chips and are built too dense to let you get fingers and probes into them. The 8562A is old (1987) but a superb analyzer, 1 kHz to 18 GHz, all digital and synthesized. This will do everything you want, except drive a parallel or RS-232 printer directly. If you're smart enough to talk to it by IEEE-488, then you can do everything through the computer. Other 856x series units have lesser capabilities, but are still great analyzers, and just might be priced low enough for a very serious hobbyist. Also, the HP-859x series are very good, although some have odd frequency, memory and IO capabilities. All 856x & 859x series units are one-man portables, until your knuckles turn white and numb. The 8569 is, in my opinion, a transitional beast between the analog and digital worlds. It's not as stable and simple as the 8562A, although it's a leap above the 141. Since it's wide, it's also awkward to carry using it's handle. I'm not much of a fan of the 8569. The 8566B is HP's top-of-the-line analyzer. They threw down the benchmark for everyone else to try to meet. Mine is customized a bit, covering 20 Hz to 22 GHz, and with an external tracking pre-selector, optional detectors, programmable attenuators, RF path switching and low-noise pre-amps. My company has a number of somewhat more plain-vanilla 8566B's and 8566A's. There isn't anything I need to do that these units fall short of (uhh, with the help of some external IEEE-488 linked computers). OTOH, these are now obsolete, non-supported by Agilent, and need two guys to carry one. Mine is in a 60" tall dedicated rack. Typical used price is around $20k. Most companies will be better served with one of Agilent's newer EPA or SPA analyzers. Anritsu and Rohde & Schwartz are also making fine analyzers. IIRC, Leader makes an analyzer that a hobbyist may aspire to affording. I would say that a 141 is still the best hobbyist choice. A company needs to be sure that they get a usable item for their money, so buying on eBay is a gamble. A company should buy from some place like Tucker, where they get a warranty backed by a reputable source. Yeah, it initially costs more. But it's a lot safer than having to try to repair an analyzer when you need that analyzer to do the real work of your company. A hobbyist can afford to spend 50 to 100 hours to get something going; in a business environment, where the clock is always ticking, that's unacceptable. Ed wb6wsn didn't the 141t's come out in the late 60's? I believe I read somewhere that the hp 8566b came out in 1995 and cost around $75,000 new, and like you stated I have read that it is the best spectrum analyzer ever built. I see them for about $10,000.00 to $12,000.00 starting on ebay but I would have some serious problems laying out that kind of money for a item on ebay. Thanks for the info. For all I know the 141t might serve my purposes just fine. I will look and see if tucker has one of those 8562a's though. A 140 series, with a round face CRT came out in the early 70's. The 141, with a rectangular face, hit around 1975. The 8566 was around 1991, IIRC. Unless you get extraordinarily lucky (and when does that ever happen), all but the 141 series is priced beyond the hobbyist. Maybe some of those 8562's or 859x's will be still working in 5 years or so when they hit the surplus market. Till then, hobbyists are still pretty much in the analog SA world. Ed wb6wsn I wouldn't buy an 8566B on eBay; I can't cross my fingers that hard. |
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