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Tektronix SUCKS!!!!!
Did they actually pull off that deal with GTE for service.
I was there training some of those ****ers. RP Jones wrote: Could it be they don't want to do anymore service, perhaps it cheaper just to replace those new off seas plastic cheap ones one under warrantee. I called them about a Tek 2232 and someone on the other end got all ****ed off, said call GTE for service ? "Frank Gilliland" wrote in message ... Tektronix is trying to manipulate the oscilloscope market. Today I learned from my local dealership that they are required by contract to destroy every scope which is traded in for a new Tektronix scope, regardless of age or condition. So if you decide to trade in that old scope for a Tektronix, know ahead of time that it is NOT going to end up in the hands of a ham, or of some kid learning and experimenting in electronics on a tight budget like I was thir... er, twenty years ago. No, Tektronix needs to raise their profits by destroying every used scope they can get their greedy little hands on, regardless of who feels the pinch! -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:36:38 -0500, Radioman wrote:
Come to think of it, HP ain't the old HP anymore, huh? They even advertise, The New HP! IIRC HP broke into several different companies - the one that makes computers absorbed Compaq (or was it the other way around) and the one that makes printer stuff is the "new HP". The one that made (from the start) and still makes some of the best test equipment now has a new name. It shudd'a been the other way around. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon |
I don't know I wasn't stupid enough to even think about calling GTE.
Actually "now that I remember" I had called Tek to enquire about a 465 B faceplate, this guy totally "lost his wig" before I even got to speak about owning a 2232. $^% 465 !! jokingly told me "THIS ISN'T SANFORD AND SON" I have since sold the 2232 and baught 465B and a little NLS battery operated (NLS are VERY very nice people, they sent me a manual, alignment/service procedure and schematic free!! ) I also have a 545 on a cart to I use in the basement (winter) people love looking at it :) -RP "private" wrote in message ... Did they actually pull off that deal with GTE for service. I was there training some of those ****ers. RP Jones wrote: Could it be they don't want to do anymore service, perhaps it cheaper just to replace those new off seas plastic cheap ones one under warrantee. I called them about a Tek 2232 and someone on the other end got all ****ed off, said call GTE for service ? "Frank Gilliland" wrote in message ... Tektronix is trying to manipulate the oscilloscope market. Today I learned from my local dealership that they are required by contract to destroy every scope which is traded in for a new Tektronix scope, regardless of age or condition. So if you decide to trade in that old scope for a Tektronix, know ahead of time that it is NOT going to end up in the hands of a ham, or of some kid learning and experimenting in electronics on a tight budget like I was thir... er, twenty years ago. No, Tektronix needs to raise their profits by destroying every used scope they can get their greedy little hands on, regardless of who feels the pinch! -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
"RP Jones" wrote in message .. .
I don't know I wasn't stupid enough to even think about calling GTE. Actually "now that I remember" I had called Tek to enquire about a 465 B faceplate, this guy totally "lost his wig" before I even got to speak about owning a 2232. $^% 465 !! jokingly told me "THIS ISN'T SANFORD AND SON" I have since sold the 2232 and baught 465B and a little NLS battery operated (NLS are VERY very nice people, they sent me a manual, alignment/service procedure and schematic free!! ) I also have a 545 on a cart to I use in the basement (winter) people love looking at it :) -RP "private" wrote in message ... Did they actually pull off that deal with GTE for service. I was there training some of those ****ers. RP Jones wrote: Could it be they don't want to do anymore service, perhaps it cheaper just to replace those new off seas plastic cheap ones one under warrantee. I called them about a Tek 2232 and someone on the other end got all ****ed off, said call GTE for service ? "Frank Gilliland" wrote in message ... Tektronix is trying to manipulate the oscilloscope market. Today I learned from my local dealership that they are required by contract to destroy every scope which is traded in for a new Tektronix scope, regardless of age or condition. So if you decide to trade in that old scope for a Tektronix, know ahead of time that it is NOT going to end up in the hands of a ham, or of some kid learning and experimenting in electronics on a tight budget like I was thir... er, twenty years ago. No, Tektronix needs to raise their profits by destroying every used scope they can get their greedy little hands on, regardless of who feels the pinch! -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- isn't it true that the older stuff is built like a battleship and isn't as proprietary and can be repaired with user obtainable parts? I always heard tek for scopes and hp for analyzers. Any thoughts on that? |
In (rec.radio.amateur.homebrew), gw wrote:
isn't it true that the older stuff is built like a battleship and isn't as proprietary and can be repaired with user obtainable parts? I always heard tek for scopes and hp for analyzers. Any thoughts on that? My experience is that HP scopes are OK-to-great, while Tek scopes are excellent-to-superb. Similarly, HP generators and analyzers are excellent-to-superb, while OK-to-great. There are other manufacturers that make excellent-to-superb hardware, such as Fluke. -- Mike Andrews Tired old sysadmin |
RP Jones wrote:
I don't know I wasn't stupid enough to even think about calling GTE. Actually "now that I remember" I had called Tek to enquire about a 465 B faceplate, this guy totally "lost his wig" before I even got to speak about owning a 2232. $^% 465 !! jokingly told me "THIS ISN'T SANFORD AND SON" The repair depot in Washington DC has one old guy who likes working on the older gear, and has some limited parts supply for them. Last year he spent an awful lot of time getting the 100V supply on my 610 video monitor working reliably, and I can strongly recommend the DC folks. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
With out doubt, most new hardware looks like its built to be thrown away
and crushed. "Built in absolesance" Its a dam shame ! Id agree on Tek for scopes and HP for analyzers, if you look on Ebay HP "as is" scopes with problems must out number the Tek's 10-1. (Many developed push button/switchpad related problems) "gw" wrote in message isn't it true that the older stuff is built like a battleship and isn't as proprietary and can be repaired with user obtainable parts? I always heard tek for scopes and hp for analyzers. Any thoughts on that? |
The saddest problems I have found with the HP gear is purely their own
fault. When they made the horizontal timing knobs for their 80's vintage scopes, they made them out of plastic, and carved large slots in the space between the outer part you turn with your fingers and the inner part that turns the knob. This left very little plastic to take the torque of turning the knob. Once they break there is no easy way of repairing them. The other big problem is their use of delrin gears with aluminum hubs just about everywhere. And after 15 years, they are all broken. The HP8640B is built like a tank, but everyone I have ever had came with several gears that had split due to shrinkage. -Chuck RP Jones wrote: With out doubt, most new hardware looks like its built to be thrown away and crushed. "Built in absolesance" Its a dam shame ! Id agree on Tek for scopes and HP for analyzers, if you look on Ebay HP "as is" scopes with problems must out number the Tek's 10-1. (Many developed push button/switchpad related problems) "gw" wrote in message isn't it true that the older stuff is built like a battleship and isn't as proprietary and can be repaired with user obtainable parts? I always heard tek for scopes and hp for analyzers. Any thoughts on that? |
Looked like English to me. What part of it did you not understand?
jak "Bill Turner" wrote in message ... On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:21:29 GMT, "RP Jones" wrote: I had called Tek to enquire about a 465 B faceplate, this guy totally "lost his wig" before I even got to speak about owning a 2232. $^% 465 !! jokingly told me "THIS ISN'T SANFORD AND SON" __________________________________________________ _______ I've read the above several times and can't quite figure out what you're complaining about. Try it again in English. -- Bill, W6WRT |
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:46:28 -0500, Chuck Harris
wrote: The saddest problems I have found with the HP gear is purely their own fault. When they made the horizontal timing knobs for their 80's vintage scopes, they made them out of plastic, and carved large slots in the space between the outer part you turn with your fingers and the inner part that turns the knob. This left very little plastic to take the torque of turning the knob. Once they break there is no easy way of repairing them. That sounds just like the knobs used in the HT 32, 33, and SX101 series. They have a very thin flange, or lip around the front that is very fragile. I saw one on e-bay a couple days ago that was described as excellent, yet it had at least two sections of that lip missing. The other big problem is their use of delrin gears with aluminum hubs just about everywhere. And after 15 years, they are all broken. The HP8640B is built like a tank, but everyone I have ever had came with several gears that had split due to shrinkage. But Delrin is very easy to machine. Also unless the gears are of a very odd size (most are spur gears or a pair of 45 degree bevel gears) that can be replaced with something more modern and durable. I do like a lot of the new, lighter weight gear as I have a bad back. (Probably from man handling that old stuff that takes two good size men to load it into a trailer) Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member) www.rogerhalstead.com N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2) -Chuck RP Jones wrote: With out doubt, most new hardware looks like its built to be thrown away and crushed. "Built in absolesance" Its a dam shame ! Id agree on Tek for scopes and HP for analyzers, if you look on Ebay HP "as is" scopes with problems must out number the Tek's 10-1. (Many developed push button/switchpad related problems) "gw" wrote in message isn't it true that the older stuff is built like a battleship and isn't as proprietary and can be repaired with user obtainable parts? I always heard tek for scopes and hp for analyzers. Any thoughts on that? |
"RP Jones" wrote in message . ..
With out doubt, most new hardware looks like its built to be thrown away and crushed. "Built in absolesance" Its a dam shame ! Id agree on Tek for scopes and HP for analyzers, if you look on Ebay HP "as is" scopes with problems must out number the Tek's 10-1. (Many developed push button/switchpad related problems) "gw" wrote in message isn't it true that the older stuff is built like a battleship and isn't as proprietary and can be repaired with user obtainable parts? I always heard tek for scopes and hp for analyzers. Any thoughts on that? what is a good spectrum analyzer to have for a home shop in your opinion, and also what is a good scope to have and do you have to break the bank on this stuff? thanks. |
what is a good spectrum analyzer to have for a home shop in your opinion, and also what is a good scope to have and do you have to break the bank on this stuff? thanks. What specs do you want, and how much do you want to spend? The HP 141T series is great for technically-inclined hams. Very maintainable, very reliable once you understand its quirks, very competitive performance... and very big and heavy. Typically $1K or less on eBay for a working outfit. Tek's 492-497 series are also excellent analyzers. Newer and much more portable than the 141T series, but still easily maintainable (via parts units and aftermarket suppliers, not through Tek). Quite a bit more expensive in most cases. $2K - $7K depending on model and options. HP 8560-series analyzers are also very nice; I have no personal experience with these, though. Stay away from the cheaper (8557/8/9) HP units. Tek's older 491 is probably also best avoided in favor of the 141T line (this is probably where the saying "HP for analyzers" came from.) Tek analyzers from the 2780 series should also be avoided by most users. They are still extremely expensive ($7K and up), and like the older 490/2750 analyzers no parts or manuals can be ordered from Tek anymore. However, unlike the 490/2750 units, they can be calibrated only with special PC-based configurations connected to specific test sources via GPIB and running obsolete software. Worse, Tek supported them only via module exchange, never releasing any component-level schematics. These are very powerful instruments, but keeping a 2782 or 2784 running nowadays would be a serious, ongoing research project in itself. These were symptomatic of the "bean-counter" generation at Tek, where customer needs were considered secondary to high-priced, proprietary product support and finite market lifetime. -- jm ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.qsl.net/ke5fx Note: My E-mail address has been altered to avoid spam ------------------------------------------------------ |
johnm wrote in message ...
what is a good spectrum analyzer to have for a home shop in your opinion, and also what is a good scope to have and do you have to break the bank on this stuff? thanks. What specs do you want, and how much do you want to spend? The HP 141T series is great for technically-inclined hams. Very maintainable, very reliable once you understand its quirks, very competitive performance... and very big and heavy. Typically $1K or less on eBay for a working outfit. Tek's 492-497 series are also excellent analyzers. Newer and much more portable than the 141T series, but still easily maintainable (via parts units and aftermarket suppliers, not through Tek). Quite a bit more expensive in most cases. $2K - $7K depending on model and options. HP 8560-series analyzers are also very nice; I have no personal experience with these, though. Stay away from the cheaper (8557/8/9) HP units. Tek's older 491 is probably also best avoided in favor of the 141T line (this is probably where the saying "HP for analyzers" came from.) Tek analyzers from the 2780 series should also be avoided by most users. They are still extremely expensive ($7K and up), and like the older 490/2750 analyzers no parts or manuals can be ordered from Tek anymore. However, unlike the 490/2750 units, they can be calibrated only with special PC-based configurations connected to specific test sources via GPIB and running obsolete software. Worse, Tek supported them only via module exchange, never releasing any component-level schematics. These are very powerful instruments, but keeping a 2782 or 2784 running nowadays would be a serious, ongoing research project in itself. These were symptomatic of the "bean-counter" generation at Tek, where customer needs were considered secondary to high-priced, proprietary product support and finite market lifetime. -- jm ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.qsl.net/ke5fx Note: My E-mail address has been altered to avoid spam ------------------------------------------------------ how about a 8569b ? some guy has one on ebay now for about $3,000.00......i might pull the trigger on that one.....I would be using it for hf work. I was considering a 141t from tucker . it cost more but at least you know it works. i was going to get the 8552b and 8553b plugins with it. then you have to round up the connecting cables and manuals for them. comments? oh by the way i have read good things about the hp 8569b's. if they work. |
what is a good spectrum analyzer to have for a home shop in your opinion, and also what is a good scope to have and do you have to break the bank on this stuff? thanks. A tek 7000 mainframe is my spectrum analyzer, and backup scope. I have a 7L5 plugin for 0-5MHz, and 7L13 for 0.1 to 1800 MHz I also have the companion tracking generator. This stuff was all aquired piecemeal at hamfests, and in total, probably set me back $1k. I've had it for (eek!) 13 years! The 7000 series is getting long in the tooth, but there's a ton of plugins out there cheap, and they are very nice instruments. Generally, get the best scope you can afford, and "give till it hurts". :) My current scope is a TDS-420 4 channel DSO. It wasn't cheap, except in relative terms, but it's my main tool for earning a living, and I wouldn't want to work with less. Depending on what you want to do with it, you might be ok with a 100 or even 60 MHz non-storage analog scope. You want the bandwidth to be the frequency you'll be working at. Assuming 11M applications, I'd say 60 would be marginal, 100 definitely better. Also, GET GOOD PROBES! I just re-probed at Dayton this year, I think I spent $800 or so on probes. I got two sets of very nice probes (8 probes total) plus a set of lesser quality "everyday" probes that I use when I'm not really pushing the limits. Save the good ones for when it matters. Some old BNC cable with clipleads will work at audio, but you wouldn't want to debug a switching power supply with it! |
"John Miles" wrote in message ... In article , says... johnm wrote in message ... what is a good spectrum analyzer to have for a home shop in your opinion, and also what is a good scope to have and do you have to break the bank on this stuff? thanks. SNIP how about a 8569b ? some guy has one on ebay now for about $3,000.00......i might pull the trigger on that one.....I would be using it for hf work. I was considering a 141t from tucker . it cost more but at least you know it works. i was going to get the 8552b and 8553b plugins with it. then you have to round up the connecting cables and manuals for them. comments? oh by the way i have read good things about the hp 8569b's. if they work. My guess is that the 8569b would be a very passable unit. Its specs seem competitive with an optioned-out Tek 492 in most respects, except that it only goes down to 10 MHz (perhaps there's an underrange capability that lets it see lower frequencies?) That might be a concern if you're going to be using it mostly for HF work. SNIP The 141Ts at Tucker seem like a pretty good deal. I believe they all come with new CRTs. I personally like to buy broken models on eBay and fix them up. It's cheaper, you get really familiar with the gear inside and out, and you always have spare parts on hand. But that strategy isn't for everybody. -- jm As I have HP-141's, an HP-8569, an 8566B and an 8562A, let me drop a few comments here. The 141's are the best deal for a hobbyist. You can acquire the slightly better 8552B IF section, and then get only the RF plug-in that suits your needs (an 8556, with it's built-in tracking generator, for a few Hz to 300 kHz, or an 8555, for 10 MHz through umpteen GHz, assuming you also get the external mixers). Unfortunately, by the time a hobbyist gets one of these, it has been abused and neglected by its last commercial owner. CRT burns are common, and the flood-gun analog memory may be very quirky. For an advanced hobbyist, either get an associated Polaroid scope camera, or build your own camera hood. You can capture a lot of transient things that way, and you can scan the pixs to input into your computer. Also, HP made a line of oscilloscope plug-ins that fit the 141 mainframe, so you can use the 141 as a multi-channel analog memory oscilloscope too. 141's are a pain in two ways; first, you have to externally store extra plug-ins, and secondly, the hard side handles make carrying one a painful experience beyond about 50 feet. Also, you tend to injure your fingertips sliding those bulky plug-ins in and out past the big metal front handles. The 141 may also be the last of the hobbyist repairable analyzers; newer analyzers use proprietary chips and are built too dense to let you get fingers and probes into them. The 8562A is old (1987) but a superb analyzer, 1 kHz to 18 GHz, all digital and synthesized. This will do everything you want, except drive a parallel or RS-232 printer directly. If you're smart enough to talk to it by IEEE-488, then you can do everything through the computer. Other 856x series units have lesser capabilities, but are still great analyzers, and just might be priced low enough for a very serious hobbyist. Also, the HP-859x series are very good, although some have odd frequency, memory and IO capabilities. All 856x & 859x series units are one-man portables, until your knuckles turn white and numb. The 8569 is, in my opinion, a transitional beast between the analog and digital worlds. It's not as stable and simple as the 8562A, although it's a leap above the 141. Since it's wide, it's also awkward to carry using it's handle. I'm not much of a fan of the 8569. The 8566B is HP's top-of-the-line analyzer. They threw down the benchmark for everyone else to try to meet. Mine is customized a bit, covering 20 Hz to 22 GHz, and with an external tracking pre-selector, optional detectors, programmable attenuators, RF path switching and low-noise pre-amps. My company has a number of somewhat more plain-vanilla 8566B's and 8566A's. There isn't anything I need to do that these units fall short of (uhh, with the help of some external IEEE-488 linked computers). OTOH, these are now obsolete, non-supported by Agilent, and need two guys to carry one. Mine is in a 60" tall dedicated rack. Typical used price is around $20k. Most companies will be better served with one of Agilent's newer EPA or SPA analyzers. Anritsu and Rohde & Schwartz are also making fine analyzers. IIRC, Leader makes an analyzer that a hobbyist may aspire to affording. I would say that a 141 is still the best hobbyist choice. A company needs to be sure that they get a usable item for their money, so buying on eBay is a gamble. A company should buy from some place like Tucker, where they get a warranty backed by a reputable source. Yeah, it initially costs more. But it's a lot safer than having to try to repair an analyzer when you need that analyzer to do the real work of your company. A hobbyist can afford to spend 50 to 100 hours to get something going; in a business environment, where the clock is always ticking, that's unacceptable. Ed wb6wsn |
"Ed Price" wrote in message news:tPmtb.4837$cX1.463@fed1read02...
"John Miles" wrote in message ... In article , says... johnm wrote in message ... what is a good spectrum analyzer to have for a home shop in your opinion, and also what is a good scope to have and do you have to break the bank on this stuff? thanks. SNIP how about a 8569b ? some guy has one on ebay now for about $3,000.00......i might pull the trigger on that one.....I would be using it for hf work. I was considering a 141t from tucker . it cost more but at least you know it works. i was going to get the 8552b and 8553b plugins with it. then you have to round up the connecting cables and manuals for them. comments? oh by the way i have read good things about the hp 8569b's. if they work. My guess is that the 8569b would be a very passable unit. Its specs seem competitive with an optioned-out Tek 492 in most respects, except that it only goes down to 10 MHz (perhaps there's an underrange capability that lets it see lower frequencies?) That might be a concern if you're going to be using it mostly for HF work. SNIP The 141Ts at Tucker seem like a pretty good deal. I believe they all come with new CRTs. I personally like to buy broken models on eBay and fix them up. It's cheaper, you get really familiar with the gear inside and out, and you always have spare parts on hand. But that strategy isn't for everybody. -- jm As I have HP-141's, an HP-8569, an 8566B and an 8562A, let me drop a few comments here. The 141's are the best deal for a hobbyist. You can acquire the slightly better 8552B IF section, and then get only the RF plug-in that suits your needs (an 8556, with it's built-in tracking generator, for a few Hz to 300 kHz, or an 8555, for 10 MHz through umpteen GHz, assuming you also get the external mixers). Unfortunately, by the time a hobbyist gets one of these, it has been abused and neglected by its last commercial owner. CRT burns are common, and the flood-gun analog memory may be very quirky. For an advanced hobbyist, either get an associated Polaroid scope camera, or build your own camera hood. You can capture a lot of transient things that way, and you can scan the pixs to input into your computer. Also, HP made a line of oscilloscope plug-ins that fit the 141 mainframe, so you can use the 141 as a multi-channel analog memory oscilloscope too. 141's are a pain in two ways; first, you have to externally store extra plug-ins, and secondly, the hard side handles make carrying one a painful experience beyond about 50 feet. Also, you tend to injure your fingertips sliding those bulky plug-ins in and out past the big metal front handles. The 141 may also be the last of the hobbyist repairable analyzers; newer analyzers use proprietary chips and are built too dense to let you get fingers and probes into them. The 8562A is old (1987) but a superb analyzer, 1 kHz to 18 GHz, all digital and synthesized. This will do everything you want, except drive a parallel or RS-232 printer directly. If you're smart enough to talk to it by IEEE-488, then you can do everything through the computer. Other 856x series units have lesser capabilities, but are still great analyzers, and just might be priced low enough for a very serious hobbyist. Also, the HP-859x series are very good, although some have odd frequency, memory and IO capabilities. All 856x & 859x series units are one-man portables, until your knuckles turn white and numb. The 8569 is, in my opinion, a transitional beast between the analog and digital worlds. It's not as stable and simple as the 8562A, although it's a leap above the 141. Since it's wide, it's also awkward to carry using it's handle. I'm not much of a fan of the 8569. The 8566B is HP's top-of-the-line analyzer. They threw down the benchmark for everyone else to try to meet. Mine is customized a bit, covering 20 Hz to 22 GHz, and with an external tracking pre-selector, optional detectors, programmable attenuators, RF path switching and low-noise pre-amps. My company has a number of somewhat more plain-vanilla 8566B's and 8566A's. There isn't anything I need to do that these units fall short of (uhh, with the help of some external IEEE-488 linked computers). OTOH, these are now obsolete, non-supported by Agilent, and need two guys to carry one. Mine is in a 60" tall dedicated rack. Typical used price is around $20k. Most companies will be better served with one of Agilent's newer EPA or SPA analyzers. Anritsu and Rohde & Schwartz are also making fine analyzers. IIRC, Leader makes an analyzer that a hobbyist may aspire to affording. I would say that a 141 is still the best hobbyist choice. A company needs to be sure that they get a usable item for their money, so buying on eBay is a gamble. A company should buy from some place like Tucker, where they get a warranty backed by a reputable source. Yeah, it initially costs more. But it's a lot safer than having to try to repair an analyzer when you need that analyzer to do the real work of your company. A hobbyist can afford to spend 50 to 100 hours to get something going; in a business environment, where the clock is always ticking, that's unacceptable. Ed wb6wsn didn't the 141t's come out in the late 60's? I believe I read somewhere that the hp 8566b came out in 1995 and cost around $75,000 new, and like you stated I have read that it is the best spectrum analyzer ever built. I see them for about $10,000.00 to $12,000.00 starting on ebay but I would have some serious problems laying out that kind of money for a item on ebay. Thanks for the info. For all I know the 141t might serve my purposes just fine. I will look and see if tucker has one of those 8562a's though. |
"Ed Price" wrote in message news:tPmtb.4837$cX1.463@fed1read02...
"John Miles" wrote in message ... In article , says... johnm wrote in message ... what is a good spectrum analyzer to have for a home shop in your opinion, and also what is a good scope to have and do you have to break the bank on this stuff? thanks. SNIP how about a 8569b ? some guy has one on ebay now for about $3,000.00......i might pull the trigger on that one.....I would be using it for hf work. I was considering a 141t from tucker . it cost more but at least you know it works. i was going to get the 8552b and 8553b plugins with it. then you have to round up the connecting cables and manuals for them. comments? oh by the way i have read good things about the hp 8569b's. if they work. My guess is that the 8569b would be a very passable unit. Its specs seem competitive with an optioned-out Tek 492 in most respects, except that it only goes down to 10 MHz (perhaps there's an underrange capability that lets it see lower frequencies?) That might be a concern if you're going to be using it mostly for HF work. SNIP The 141Ts at Tucker seem like a pretty good deal. I believe they all come with new CRTs. I personally like to buy broken models on eBay and fix them up. It's cheaper, you get really familiar with the gear inside and out, and you always have spare parts on hand. But that strategy isn't for everybody. -- jm As I have HP-141's, an HP-8569, an 8566B and an 8562A, let me drop a few comments here. The 141's are the best deal for a hobbyist. You can acquire the slightly better 8552B IF section, and then get only the RF plug-in that suits your needs (an 8556, with it's built-in tracking generator, for a few Hz to 300 kHz, or an 8555, for 10 MHz through umpteen GHz, assuming you also get the external mixers). Unfortunately, by the time a hobbyist gets one of these, it has been abused and neglected by its last commercial owner. CRT burns are common, and the flood-gun analog memory may be very quirky. For an advanced hobbyist, either get an associated Polaroid scope camera, or build your own camera hood. You can capture a lot of transient things that way, and you can scan the pixs to input into your computer. Also, HP made a line of oscilloscope plug-ins that fit the 141 mainframe, so you can use the 141 as a multi-channel analog memory oscilloscope too. 141's are a pain in two ways; first, you have to externally store extra plug-ins, and secondly, the hard side handles make carrying one a painful experience beyond about 50 feet. Also, you tend to injure your fingertips sliding those bulky plug-ins in and out past the big metal front handles. The 141 may also be the last of the hobbyist repairable analyzers; newer analyzers use proprietary chips and are built too dense to let you get fingers and probes into them. The 8562A is old (1987) but a superb analyzer, 1 kHz to 18 GHz, all digital and synthesized. This will do everything you want, except drive a parallel or RS-232 printer directly. If you're smart enough to talk to it by IEEE-488, then you can do everything through the computer. Other 856x series units have lesser capabilities, but are still great analyzers, and just might be priced low enough for a very serious hobbyist. Also, the HP-859x series are very good, although some have odd frequency, memory and IO capabilities. All 856x & 859x series units are one-man portables, until your knuckles turn white and numb. The 8569 is, in my opinion, a transitional beast between the analog and digital worlds. It's not as stable and simple as the 8562A, although it's a leap above the 141. Since it's wide, it's also awkward to carry using it's handle. I'm not much of a fan of the 8569. The 8566B is HP's top-of-the-line analyzer. They threw down the benchmark for everyone else to try to meet. Mine is customized a bit, covering 20 Hz to 22 GHz, and with an external tracking pre-selector, optional detectors, programmable attenuators, RF path switching and low-noise pre-amps. My company has a number of somewhat more plain-vanilla 8566B's and 8566A's. There isn't anything I need to do that these units fall short of (uhh, with the help of some external IEEE-488 linked computers). OTOH, these are now obsolete, non-supported by Agilent, and need two guys to carry one. Mine is in a 60" tall dedicated rack. Typical used price is around $20k. Most companies will be better served with one of Agilent's newer EPA or SPA analyzers. Anritsu and Rohde & Schwartz are also making fine analyzers. IIRC, Leader makes an analyzer that a hobbyist may aspire to affording. I would say that a 141 is still the best hobbyist choice. A company needs to be sure that they get a usable item for their money, so buying on eBay is a gamble. A company should buy from some place like Tucker, where they get a warranty backed by a reputable source. Yeah, it initially costs more. But it's a lot safer than having to try to repair an analyzer when you need that analyzer to do the real work of your company. A hobbyist can afford to spend 50 to 100 hours to get something going; in a business environment, where the clock is always ticking, that's unacceptable. Ed wb6wsn wow! I just looked at the tucker catalogue and the 8562a's are going for $17,000.00. Looks like they don't want to give that one away either. Seems like if you want a nice analyzer for your home shop you had better go out and get yourself a home equity loan because you are going to need it... do you know anything about the hp 180t series mainframes with assorted plugins? They have some of those also. |
"gw" wrote in message m... "Ed Price" wrote in message news:tPmtb.4837$cX1.463@fed1read02... "John Miles" wrote in message ... In article , says... johnm wrote in message ... what is a good spectrum analyzer to have for a home shop in your SNIP wow! I just looked at the tucker catalogue and the 8562a's are going for $17,000.00. Looks like they don't want to give that one away either. Seems like if you want a nice analyzer for your home shop you had better go out and get yourself a home equity loan because you are going to need it... do you know anything about the hp 180t series mainframes with assorted plugins? They have some of those also. IIRC, the 180 mainframe was a different form-factor than the 141. The 180 stacked up a bit more like a big oscilloscope. Ed wb6wsn |
"gw" wrote in message om... "Ed Price" wrote in message news:tPmtb.4837$cX1.463@fed1read02... "John Miles" wrote in message ... In article , says... johnm wrote in message ... what is a good spectrum analyzer to have for a home shop in your opinion, and also what is a good scope to have and do you have to break the bank on this stuff? thanks. SNIP The 141Ts at Tucker seem like a pretty good deal. I believe they all come with new CRTs. I personally like to buy broken models on eBay and fix them up. It's cheaper, you get really familiar with the gear inside and out, and you always have spare parts on hand. But that strategy isn't for everybody. -- jm As I have HP-141's, an HP-8569, an 8566B and an 8562A, let me drop a few comments here. The 141's are the best deal for a hobbyist. You can acquire the slightly better 8552B IF section, and then get only the RF plug-in that suits your needs (an 8556, with it's built-in tracking generator, for a few Hz to 300 kHz, or an 8555, for 10 MHz through umpteen GHz, assuming you also get the external mixers). Unfortunately, by the time a hobbyist gets one of these, it has been abused and neglected by its last commercial owner. CRT burns are common, and the flood-gun analog memory may be very quirky. For an advanced hobbyist, either get an associated Polaroid scope camera, or build your own camera hood. You can capture a lot of transient things that way, and you can scan the pixs to input into your computer. Also, HP made a line of oscilloscope plug-ins that fit the 141 mainframe, so you can use the 141 as a multi-channel analog memory oscilloscope too. 141's are a pain in two ways; first, you have to externally store extra plug-ins, and secondly, the hard side handles make carrying one a painful experience beyond about 50 feet. Also, you tend to injure your fingertips sliding those bulky plug-ins in and out past the big metal front handles. The 141 may also be the last of the hobbyist repairable analyzers; newer analyzers use proprietary chips and are built too dense to let you get fingers and probes into them. The 8562A is old (1987) but a superb analyzer, 1 kHz to 18 GHz, all digital and synthesized. This will do everything you want, except drive a parallel or RS-232 printer directly. If you're smart enough to talk to it by IEEE-488, then you can do everything through the computer. Other 856x series units have lesser capabilities, but are still great analyzers, and just might be priced low enough for a very serious hobbyist. Also, the HP-859x series are very good, although some have odd frequency, memory and IO capabilities. All 856x & 859x series units are one-man portables, until your knuckles turn white and numb. The 8569 is, in my opinion, a transitional beast between the analog and digital worlds. It's not as stable and simple as the 8562A, although it's a leap above the 141. Since it's wide, it's also awkward to carry using it's handle. I'm not much of a fan of the 8569. The 8566B is HP's top-of-the-line analyzer. They threw down the benchmark for everyone else to try to meet. Mine is customized a bit, covering 20 Hz to 22 GHz, and with an external tracking pre-selector, optional detectors, programmable attenuators, RF path switching and low-noise pre-amps. My company has a number of somewhat more plain-vanilla 8566B's and 8566A's. There isn't anything I need to do that these units fall short of (uhh, with the help of some external IEEE-488 linked computers). OTOH, these are now obsolete, non-supported by Agilent, and need two guys to carry one. Mine is in a 60" tall dedicated rack. Typical used price is around $20k. Most companies will be better served with one of Agilent's newer EPA or SPA analyzers. Anritsu and Rohde & Schwartz are also making fine analyzers. IIRC, Leader makes an analyzer that a hobbyist may aspire to affording. I would say that a 141 is still the best hobbyist choice. A company needs to be sure that they get a usable item for their money, so buying on eBay is a gamble. A company should buy from some place like Tucker, where they get a warranty backed by a reputable source. Yeah, it initially costs more. But it's a lot safer than having to try to repair an analyzer when you need that analyzer to do the real work of your company. A hobbyist can afford to spend 50 to 100 hours to get something going; in a business environment, where the clock is always ticking, that's unacceptable. Ed wb6wsn didn't the 141t's come out in the late 60's? I believe I read somewhere that the hp 8566b came out in 1995 and cost around $75,000 new, and like you stated I have read that it is the best spectrum analyzer ever built. I see them for about $10,000.00 to $12,000.00 starting on ebay but I would have some serious problems laying out that kind of money for a item on ebay. Thanks for the info. For all I know the 141t might serve my purposes just fine. I will look and see if tucker has one of those 8562a's though. A 140 series, with a round face CRT came out in the early 70's. The 141, with a rectangular face, hit around 1975. The 8566 was around 1991, IIRC. Unless you get extraordinarily lucky (and when does that ever happen), all but the 141 series is priced beyond the hobbyist. Maybe some of those 8562's or 859x's will be still working in 5 years or so when they hit the surplus market. Till then, hobbyists are still pretty much in the analog SA world. Ed wb6wsn I wouldn't buy an 8566B on eBay; I can't cross my fingers that hard. |
In article nqutb.6159$cX1.4086@fed1read02, Ed Price wrote:
A 140 series, with a round face CRT came out in the early 70's. The 141, with a rectangular face, hit around 1975. The 8566 was around 1991, IIRC. The 141 weighs a ton, but it's rock solid stable, it sells for reasonable money at hamfests, and it's not that hard to get repaired. Also, I think the Singer spectrum analyzers of that era are underrated and sell for very low sums considering how good they are. When I first used one, I was amazed at how birdie-free it was (although admittedly this was 30 years ago, and all of our standards for birdies are a bit higher). Unless you get extraordinarily lucky (and when does that ever happen), all but the 141 series is priced beyond the hobbyist. Maybe some of those 8562's or 859x's will be still working in 5 years or so when they hit the surplus market. Till then, hobbyists are still pretty much in the analog SA world. You know, I like the analogue SA gear. I like analogue scopes too. I see a lot of wideband hand-held receivers like the Icom R10, some of which have crude LCD panadaptor displays. Has anyone used any of these as cheap spectrum analyzers? If so, what is the one that will give me the best resolution possible? I don't much care about the front end sensitivity. I can live with some serious limitations in order to have something I can carry in my pocket. It would be very nice to have a spectrum analyzer I can carry up to the top of the tower with me to poke around at the head amps before taking the whole thing down. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
No, there is no person so named. Would you prefer that he had used the sort
of expletives that those symbols generally represent? Have you never seen profanity annotated that way (think: comic strip)? The 'Sanford & Son' reference was made by the service rep, apparently referring to the gall of the OP, for wasting the rep's valuable time asking for information about equipment that he (the rep) considered to be nothing but junk (you'll recall the TV series of that name was about a junk dealer). Does that wrap it up for you...or--OP--did I get that right? jak "Bill Turner" wrote in message ... On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:58:52 -0600, "jakdedert" wrote: Looked like English to me. What part of it did you not understand? jak __________________________________________________ _______ 1. The part about calling regarding a 465 faceplate and the guy losing his wig before he got to speak about the 2232. Can you say "non sequitur"? 2. Is there a person named "$^% 465 !!"? This person apparently makes jokes about Sanford and Son. What does this have to do with ordering parts from Tektronix? 3. If you *can* make sense out of his post, I worry about you. :-) -- Bill, W6WRT |
johnm wrote:
I heard someone on the test-equipment reflector (http://www.qth.net) was going to fabricate some replacement 8640B gears out of metal. You might check with that list to see if it ever happened. Dunno, but the guy at www.odometergears.com has been VERY happy to fabricate plastic instrument gears for me, for fairly little money. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
Thanks to Ed for the good advice.
I've got an HP 140T. As far as I know, the only difference between it and the 141T is that the CRT in mine is a conventional one with long-persistence phosphor rather than a storage tube. It uses the same plug-in units as the 141T. I find it to be very usable, and don't really miss storage capability at all. I think the tube is a lot more trouble-free than a storage type unit. So I recommend that you don't turn down a 140T if you come across one -- and you might even have a better chance of getting a unit with a working display than with a 141T. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Ed Price wrote: [Lots of good advice] |
Roy Lewallen wrote in message ...
Thanks to Ed for the good advice. I've got an HP 140T. As far as I know, the only difference between it and the 141T is that the CRT in mine is a conventional one with long-persistence phosphor rather than a storage tube. It uses the same plug-in units as the 141T. I find it to be very usable, and don't really miss storage capability at all. I think the tube is a lot more trouble-free than a storage type unit. So I recommend that you don't turn down a 140T if you come across one -- and you might even have a better chance of getting a unit with a working display than with a 141T. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Ed Price wrote: [Lots of good advice] well it is amazing i think how some of these units retain their resale value even though the companies that made them do not service them or back them......man who was the brainiac that thought about how to implement this scam? incidentally some guy tried to sell a stolen hp unit he lifted over at his job at nasa.......on ebay.....the final price was i think about $3,000.00....for a 35,000 dollar unit i thing they said on the news......he got arrested and the guy who bought it on ebay needless to say didn't get the deal he was trying to get.....which makes me wonder how many stolen items are listed on ebay and are sold there? |
"gw" wrote in message om... Roy Lewallen wrote in message ... Thanks to Ed for the good advice. I've got an HP 140T. As far as I know, the only difference between it and the 141T is that the CRT in mine is a conventional one with long-persistence phosphor rather than a storage tube. It uses the same plug-in units as the 141T. I find it to be very usable, and don't really miss storage capability at all. I think the tube is a lot more trouble-free than a storage type unit. So I recommend that you don't turn down a 140T if you come across one -- and you might even have a better chance of getting a unit with a working display than with a 141T. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Ed Price wrote: [Lots of good advice] well it is amazing i think how some of these units retain their resale value even though the companies that made them do not service them or back them......man who was the brainiac that thought about how to implement this scam? Designing and building a product to provide many years of use, and then capable of being repaired without access to unique components and/or exotic service equipment, is a concept so rare as to be thought a scam. Ed wb6wsn |
Ed Price wrote:
Designing and building a product to provide many years of use, and then capable of being repaired without access to unique components and/or exotic service equipment, is a concept so rare as to be thought a scam. Ed wb6wsn Imagine your cell phone if it was designed to be repaired, and used only common components. It would be the size of a briefcase. Do you think cell phones would be popular if they had to be briefcase sized? What about spectrum analyzers that needed to be contained in several 6 foot high rack cabinets? Is the world better or worse now that a 100MHz oscilloscope can be made the size of a paper back book? -Chuck, WA3UQV |
Chuck Harris wrote:
Ed Price wrote: Designing and building a product to provide many years of use, and then capable of being repaired without access to unique components and/or exotic service equipment, is a concept so rare as to be thought a scam. Ed wb6wsn Imagine your cell phone if it was designed to be repaired, and used only common components. It would be the size of a briefcase. Do you think cell phones would be popular if they had to be briefcase sized? What about spectrum analyzers that needed to be contained in several 6 foot high rack cabinets? Is the world better or worse now that a 100MHz oscilloscope can be made the size of a paper back book? -Chuck, WA3UQV Most of the chips in cell phones are off the shelf parts, and there are places that do repair cell phones. RMS Communications in Ocala, Florida rebuilds thousands of pagers and cell phones every week. I know several techs who worked there, and they were telling me about the equipment they had available at each work station. One problem with new RF and test equipment is the firmware programmed into chips isn't readily available to program replacement parts. Another problem is the short production life for some parts. If you build a product for over two years, you either do "Lifetime purchases", or redesign boards to use the next round of parts. What is real fun is a base product with up to 100 different sets of software, depending on the customers specifications. Its hard enough to keep it straight on the factory floor, let alone trying to do it in the field. -- Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
"Bill Turner" wrote in message ... On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 19:15:09 -0600, "jakdedert" wrote: No, there is no person so named. Would you prefer that he had used the sort of expletives that those symbols generally represent? Have you never seen profanity annotated that way (think: comic strip)? I've never seen "465" included in symbolic profanity before. Remove that and the rest becomes recognizable. Didn't notice that...finger must've slipped off the shift key. The 'Sanford & Son' reference was made by the service rep, apparently referring to the gall of the OP, for wasting the rep's valuable time asking for information about equipment that he (the rep) considered to be nothing but junk (you'll recall the TV series of that name was about a junk dealer). Pretty obscure, but makes sense now. Does that wrap it up for you...or--OP--did I get that right? Got it all, thanks. Plain 'ol English beats speaking in tongues though. Actually, this was kind of fun. Maybe we should all start posting with obscure references and irregular grammar. Not. Glad to be of service. Actually I think the obscure reference was actually a paraphrased quotation of the service rep, which the OP repeated...probably should have used quote marks there to clear it up. jak -- Bill, W6WRT |
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Most of the chips in cell phones are off the shelf parts, and there are places that do repair cell phones. RMS Communications in Ocala, Florida rebuilds thousands of pagers and cell phones every week. I know several techs who worked there, and they were telling me about the equipment they had available at each work station. Most of the parts in a tek scope are off the shelf too, but like the cell phone, there are one or two show stoppers. For the cell phone, it is the microprocessor with its combination mask and flash programming. I know a guy that repairs pagers, but you cannot convince me that it is a profitable business.... The way he moaned about the cost of my fixing his RF signal generator gives me a clue. One problem with new RF and test equipment is the firmware programmed into chips isn't readily available to program replacement parts. Another problem is the short production life for some parts. If you build a product for over two years, you either do "Lifetime purchases", or redesign boards to use the next round of parts. What is real fun is a base product with up to 100 different sets of software, depending on the customers specifications. Its hard enough to keep it straight on the factory floor, let alone trying to do it in the field. It is even worse in the space field, where by the time a part is qualified, and a satellite is made, the part is stone cold obsolete. -Chuck |
On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:30:40 -0800, "Ed Price"
wrote: Designing and building a product to provide many years of use, and then capable of being repaired without access to unique components and/or exotic service equipment, is a concept so rare as to be thought a scam. Can anyone recommend a decent commercial vector network analyser and spectrum analyser that one can repair oneself if necessary and hopefully keep them up and running for ever? -- "I expect history will be kind to me, since I intend to write it." - Winston Churchill |
Chuck Harris wrote in message ...
Michael A. Terrell wrote: Most of the chips in cell phones are off the shelf parts, and there are places that do repair cell phones. RMS Communications in Ocala, Florida rebuilds thousands of pagers and cell phones every week. I know several techs who worked there, and they were telling me about the equipment they had available at each work station. Most of the parts in a tek scope are off the shelf too, but like the cell phone, there are one or two show stoppers. For the cell phone, it is the microprocessor with its combination mask and flash programming. I know a guy that repairs pagers, but you cannot convince me that it is a profitable business.... The way he moaned about the cost of my fixing his RF signal generator gives me a clue. One problem with new RF and test equipment is the firmware programmed into chips isn't readily available to program replacement parts. Another problem is the short production life for some parts. If you build a product for over two years, you either do "Lifetime purchases", or redesign boards to use the next round of parts. What is real fun is a base product with up to 100 different sets of software, depending on the customers specifications. Its hard enough to keep it straight on the factory floor, let alone trying to do it in the field. It is even worse in the space field, where by the time a part is qualified, and a satellite is made, the part is stone cold obsolete. -Chuck hmm, kind of like buying a computer ...in a few mounths it is obsolete...on the tektroix and hp stuff.......you would think that they would be feeling the heat from asia like everyone else.....just how much profit is there in a unit that sells new for $75,000.00? and why may i ask after 10 to 15 years it still sells for heavy cash.... |
"Ed Price" wrote in message news:nO_tb.9428$cX1.8536@fed1read02...
"gw" wrote in message om... Roy Lewallen wrote in message ... Thanks to Ed for the good advice. I've got an HP 140T. As far as I know, the only difference between it and the 141T is that the CRT in mine is a conventional one with long-persistence phosphor rather than a storage tube. It uses the same plug-in units as the 141T. I find it to be very usable, and don't really miss storage capability at all. I think the tube is a lot more trouble-free than a storage type unit. So I recommend that you don't turn down a 140T if you come across one -- and you might even have a better chance of getting a unit with a working display than with a 141T. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Ed Price wrote: [Lots of good advice] well it is amazing i think how some of these units retain their resale value even though the companies that made them do not service them or back them......man who was the brainiac that thought about how to implement this scam? Designing and building a product to provide many years of use, and then capable of being repaired without access to unique components and/or exotic service equipment, is a concept so rare as to be thought a scam. Ed wb6wsn well ed what are your thoughts on a hp 8590? bueno o no bueno? |
gw wrote:
hmm, kind of like buying a computer ...in a few mounths it is obsolete...on the tektroix and hp stuff.......you would think that they would be feeling the heat from asia like everyone else.....just how much profit is there in a unit that sells new for $75,000.00? and why may i ask after 10 to 15 years it still sells for heavy cash.... When you look at the price of a $75,000 unit, consider this: First, the test equipment market is really rather small, nothing like the consumer electronics market, and second, bleeding edge technology test equipment requires some serious money to develop. Tektronix and HP have historically been positioned right in the front of the technology wave. So, a unit that sells for $75,000 may have cost $20 million to develop to where it could be manufactured. It probably only has a market life of 1000 units. Then the actual manufacture of the product costs something. A good round figure is the ratio of parts cost to sale price is 3x to 4x. Labor figures in at about equal to parts cost. -20,000,000 to develop -25,000 x 1000 units = -25,000,000 parts cost -25,000 x 1000 units = -25,000,000 labor cost 75,000 x 1000 units = +75,000,000 sales price of instrument ------------------------------------------------------------- Bottom line +$5,000,000 Take that $5 million, and subtract some for advertising, and service, and you haven't got much left. Granted these numbers are just guesses, but I have been doing small quantity manufacture for a lot of years, and these kinds of ratios come up again and again. As to why the Tektronix and HP stuff commands a high price in the used market, the reason is simple, the gear is high quality, has very high capabilities, and the price of a new replacement is also high. -Chuck |
Chuck Harris wrote:
I know a guy that repairs pagers, but you cannot convince me that it is a profitable business.... The way he moaned about the cost of my fixing his RF signal generator gives me a clue. -Chuck Believe what you want, but the place has around 100 employees, and was looking at buying the old L3-Com/Microdyne complex to expand into its 120,000+ square feet of buildings and acres of land for parking. They are bigger than Microdyne was when it closed the complex and moved to Pennsylvania. If there is no money in repairing pager and cell phones, why do they want to buy property which is priced at 1.6 million dollars? Here is the listing for the complex: http://www.foxfirerealty.com/showlis...tid=17779&id=2 -- Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
I'm not trying to be difficult Michael. The reason I have trouble
seeing how this is a money making venture is the low price of cell phones and pagers. When a Cell phone lists for $99, how much time can a technician really spend fixing it? In the repair business, the maximum repair price you can charge a customer has to be less than 40% of the cost of new, or they will always walk away. If they walk away, and give you their phones for free, then perhaps you could make a little bit fixing it and selling it, but really, now, tracphone sells refurbished nokia 5185i's for $39. There is not much margine in that. Who pays for the time necessary for the technician to open the phone, diagnose the problem, unsolder the offending module, test the phone, reassemble, and pack? You would have to pay your technicians less than $10 per hour! -Chuck Michael A. Terrell wrote: Chuck Harris wrote: I know a guy that repairs pagers, but you cannot convince me that it is a profitable business.... The way he moaned about the cost of my fixing his RF signal generator gives me a clue. -Chuck Believe what you want, but the place has around 100 employees, and was looking at buying the old L3-Com/Microdyne complex to expand into its 120,000+ square feet of buildings and acres of land for parking. They are bigger than Microdyne was when it closed the complex and moved to Pennsylvania. If there is no money in repairing pager and cell phones, why do they want to buy property which is priced at 1.6 million dollars? Here is the listing for the complex: http://www.foxfirerealty.com/showlis...tid=17779&id=2 |
Chuck Harris wrote:
I'm not trying to be difficult Michael. The reason I have trouble seeing how this is a money making venture is the low price of cell phones and pagers. When a Cell phone lists for $99, how much time can a technician really spend fixing it? In the repair business, the maximum repair price you can charge a customer has to be less than 40% of the cost of new, or they will always walk away. If they walk away, and give you their phones for free, then perhaps you could make a little bit fixing it and selling it, but really, now, tracphone sells refurbished nokia 5185i's for $39. There is not much margine in that. Who pays for the time necessary for the technician to open the phone, diagnose the problem, unsolder the offending module, test the phone, reassemble, and pack? You would have to pay your technicians less than $10 per hour! -Chuck It is run like a factory, not one up repairs. That makes a huge difference. The techs don't disassemble the units. the production people do a quick test, clean up the cases, and send the boards to be repaired. A lot of repairs are new crystals, or reprogramming the synthesizer, or replacing a bad LCD display which is done before a tech sees it. Also, they do large runs of the same unit, then do a different model. Also, some only need a few pieces of the case replaced, and the password cracked so it can be reprogrammed in the field. They have service contracts where someone ships a 1000 pagers or 100 cell phones and they repair what they can in a fixed time. They either return the bad units, or replace them with their own stock of repaired units, depending on the contract. they also repair a lot of older models and sell them overseas. -- Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
"Chuck Harris" wrote in message ... Ed Price wrote: Designing and building a product to provide many years of use, and then capable of being repaired without access to unique components and/or exotic service equipment, is a concept so rare as to be thought a scam. Ed wb6wsn Imagine your cell phone if it was designed to be repaired, and used only common components. It would be the size of a briefcase. Do you think cell phones would be popular if they had to be briefcase sized? What about spectrum analyzers that needed to be contained in several 6 foot high rack cabinets? Is the world better or worse now that a 100MHz oscilloscope can be made the size of a paper back book? -Chuck, WA3UQV We were talking about repair and service equipment, not consumer items. A consumer item is expected to have a short life-cycle, and repairability is often not a concern. I never saw "multi-six-foot-rack analyzers"; the oldest & biggest I can recall were Singer FIM analyzers, which were about 24" wide by 30" tall and deep, and took four guys to move them (and the plug-in RF heads were a one-man lift!). OTOH, everything inside was reachable and easily repairable. If that 100 MHz scope can be built to have a reasonable cost to lifetime ratio, then it could be considered a consumer item, and a non-repairable investment. But to me, if I have to pay $10k or more for a piece of test equipment, it had better last quite a few years and allow me to do re-calibration and even moderately severe repair. Ed |
"gw" wrote in message om... "Ed Price" wrote in message news:nO_tb.9428$cX1.8536@fed1read02... "gw" wrote in message om... Roy Lewallen wrote in message ... Thanks to Ed for the good advice. I've got an HP 140T. As far as I know, the only difference between it and the 141T is that the CRT in mine is a conventional one with long-persistence phosphor rather than a storage tube. It uses the same plug-in units as the 141T. I find it to be very usable, and don't really miss storage capability at all. I think the tube is a lot more trouble-free than a storage type unit. So I recommend that you don't turn down a 140T if you come across one -- and you might even have a better chance of getting a unit with a working display than with a 141T. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Ed Price wrote: [Lots of good advice] well it is amazing i think how some of these units retain their resale value even though the companies that made them do not service them or back them......man who was the brainiac that thought about how to implement this scam? Designing and building a product to provide many years of use, and then capable of being repaired without access to unique components and/or exotic service equipment, is a concept so rare as to be thought a scam. Ed wb6wsn well ed what are your thoughts on a hp 8590? bueno o no bueno? A very good analyzer series, but generally still priced out of the hobbyist market. Reasonably portable, and ruggedly built. Performance is generally a bit lower than the 856x series, but still very respectable. Much more useful than a hobbyist-affordable 141 analyzer, and easier and more versatile than an older 8569 analyzer. Unless your needs are exotic, the 859x series will be a good industrial choice. Ed wb6wsn |
"Paul Burridge" wrote in message ... On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:30:40 -0800, "Ed Price" wrote: Designing and building a product to provide many years of use, and then capable of being repaired without access to unique components and/or exotic service equipment, is a concept so rare as to be thought a scam. Can anyone recommend a decent commercial vector network analyser and spectrum analyser that one can repair oneself if necessary and hopefully keep them up and running for ever? -- "I expect history will be kind to me, since I intend to write it." - Winston Churchill For the spectrum analyzer part, the best a hobbyist can usually afford is an HP-141, with a few plug-ins (IIRC, they offered a total of 6, collect the whole set!). And you will need the HP manuals (some of which are available free from the US Army LOGSA site). And you will need some other basic and decent lab gear (scope, counter, DMM, sig gens) to do the job right. Sorry, but I can't comment on any Network Analyzers. Ed wb6wsn |
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