"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...

Hi Ken,

I don't see much advantage of one over the other, much less getting
into the benefits of BalUns and ladder line.

Any particular ratio only works if you actually observe that ratio
between line and load or source. This is unlikely if you are using
the antenna as an all bander (a distinction that is suspect in spite
of testimonials). A true all bander comes with issues, and knowing
those issues and responding to them allows all band operation.
However, you can achieve that status with a simple hank of wire, less
the appelation. In other words, you already have an all bander in
your dipole. It couldn't possibly work worse (or better) than the Van
Gordon except through choice of placement. In that regard, higher is
better, and it would seem you have plenty of length already.

IF it doesn't work (because it is whole wave on one band or the other)
you simply pair up a second in parallel (literally at the feed point)
and move on. The sad fact of it is, once you have a decent dipole up
(yours comes close enough), you have to invest many, many more dollars
and step up to a tower and beam to get to the next tier of
performance. Let's face it, few if any have towers supporting 80M
beams (and not many more with full-sized 40M beams).

On the other hand, 12 feet away from the feed point is awfully close.
This means you are literally part of the loss of the system (like a
hamster in a microwave). On the plus side, any high SWR would hardly
offer much loss over such a small run. However, such proximity often
leads to Common Mode issues (does your system refuse to tune some
bands? Even to folding back power?).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

The current antenna will tune up quickly and easily on all bands
from 160-6 meters. I was having some instability problems untill
I tied all equipment grounds to the copper baseboard heater pipe.

Before I did that I would see SWR changes when touching my
rig, my SWR meter, my tuner etc. Not now. I know the hot water
pipe is not supposed to be a good ground but this is working
extremely well.

So, how do you suggest I handle the transition between my coax
run from the tuner and the 450 ohm ladder line?

73's de Ken KG0WX

On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 23:08:16 -0700, "Ken Bessler"
wrote:


The current antenna will tune up quickly and easily on all bands
from 160-6 meters. I was having some instability problems untill
I tied all equipment grounds to the copper baseboard heater pipe.

Before I did that I would see SWR changes when touching my
rig, my SWR meter, my tuner etc. Not now. I know the hot water
pipe is not supposed to be a good ground but this is working
extremely well.

So, how do you suggest I handle the transition between my coax
run from the tuner and the 450 ohm ladder line?

73's de Ken KG0WX

Hi Ken,

Well, gee, I don't know how to put this, but I'd leave things alone.
There is almost nothing you can do that would be
measureable/noticeable from the other end in all likelihood -- unless
everything worked only because your antenna was nothing more than an
aircooled resistor. You could double your output and it would barely
nudge their S-meter.

Use an ordinary 1:1 Current BalUn (to answer your last question). Any
other value (one feels compelled to suggest 1:9) would be just as bad
over much of those frequencies as the 1:1 (except different
frequencies). The upshot of using a Current BalUn is the benefit of
its choking action and a 1:9 may not exhibit that as well; especially
if it is a Voltage BalUn construction.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...

Hi Ken,

Well, gee, I don't know how to put this, but I'd leave things alone.
There is almost nothing you can do that would be
measureable/noticeable from the other end in all likelihood -- unless
everything worked only because your antenna was nothing more than an
aircooled resistor. You could double your output and it would barely
nudge their S-meter.

Use an ordinary 1:1 Current BalUn (to answer your last question). Any
other value (one feels compelled to suggest 1:9) would be just as bad
over much of those frequencies as the 1:1 (except different
frequencies). The upshot of using a Current BalUn is the benefit of
its choking action and a 1:9 may not exhibit that as well; especially
if it is a Voltage BalUn construction.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Thanks for the info, Richard - I went to Eham.net and read the
reviews on the all bander. Not all were good so I started looking
at the other reviews for ideas. Found the MFJ-1788 G5RV
antenna. I'm usually a bit suspicious about MFJ products but
this one got good reviews.

So, what do you think about the G5RV for my situation? The
apex would be at 35' and the ends would be about 20' The 34'
of ladder line would reach my window feedpoint just fine then
I could make a coax choke (MFJ says 10 turns @ 4-6" dia) and
then feed it to my LDG tuner. the coax run would be about 8'.

A note on choke construction - I use plastic forms to wind the
coax then glue the turns together with superglue and baking
soda. I only have two smooth plastic forms avaiable - a 2-5/8"
and a 5 inch. So, I could make a 10 turn, 5" dia choke for this
new antenna.

Your thoughts?

Ken KG0WX

On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 08:51:34 -0700, "Ken Bessler"
wrote:

Thanks for the info, Richard - I went to Eham.net and read the
reviews on the all bander. Not all were good so I started looking
at the other reviews for ideas. Found the MFJ-1788 G5RV
antenna. I'm usually a bit suspicious about MFJ products but
this one got good reviews.

So, what do you think about the G5RV for my situation? The
apex would be at 35' and the ends would be about 20' The 34'
of ladder line would reach my window feedpoint just fine then
I could make a coax choke (MFJ says 10 turns @ 4-6" dia) and
then feed it to my LDG tuner. the coax run would be about 8'.

A note on choke construction - I use plastic forms to wind the
coax then glue the turns together with superglue and baking
soda. I only have two smooth plastic forms avaiable - a 2-5/8"
and a 5 inch. So, I could make a 10 turn, 5" dia choke for this
new antenna.

Your thoughts?

Ken KG0WX


Hi Ken,

Your recipe for a choke sounds quite suitable. Keep in mind all such
designs are optimized somewhere and marginal elsewhere. What you've
described will undoubtedly do the job, peaking in the 20-30M bands and
tapering to each side. The fact of the matter is that few measure
where their chokes resonate (thus providing the greatest isolation) or
how much Q they exhibit. Usually, the proof of isolation is found in
performance. That is, did it clear up transmissions getting into the
home electronics? If it did, no one will care the line still radiates
- unless such lax isolation fills in nulls you need in a pattern to
kill neighboring noise or strong stations.

As for the G5RV. It was designed to a length to be suitably tuned in
a majority of bands back in the stone age. Band plans have changed
somewhat (WARC and all) to confound that claim. That aside, the
combination of coax and ladder line was something of a marketing idea,
you are just as well off by simply using ladder line all the way back
to the tuner (or the BalUn heading into the tuner, make sure it is a
Current BalUn design, as the ones inside tuners are mickey mouse
Voltage designs). So, having stripped away the trademark coax/ladder
combo, you can progress to the next step and simply erect the highest
longest dipole and be done with it. You are going to be doing a
tune-up anyway, so having excess length draped through trees and
limping ground ward has no inherent merit. It won't hurt that much
either, but no magical properties will be observed through what we
call "appelation gain" (that extra 3dB because the vendor put a name
to it like G5RV).

A buddy of mine had the classic G5RV and it served suitably well
(coming no where close to his beam where the bands overlapped) until
one dark and stormy night when he encountered a higher than normal SWR
against a lot of power. The BalUn rattled like a mariachi after that
and the antenna was quite deaf.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC