QST
It's been a while since I posted all that bazooka data that made me stick to
dipoles, so here goes:
I've been using Hustlers mobile for almost 40 years and find them adequate;
The mast I bought in 1970 only recently failed.
I'm reworking my HF mobile installation around a TS-480HX and decided to
graduate to a screwdriver. I bought a Tarheel 200.
I prefer to operate a mobile antenna at it's resonant frequency and match to
the impedance of the transmission line with a transformer.
So here I present the resonant feedpoint impedances of a Hustler (small
resonators), the Tarheel 200 screwdriver and a 103" whip on a bug catcher on
a 54" Hustler base. All antennas on the same ball mount. Measurements by
MFJ. "Resonant" implies X=0.

band Hustler Screwdriver 103"/BugCatcher/54"
80 21 ohms 9 ohms 23 ohms
40 25 11 na
20 30 30
10 40 32

I really thought the huge bug catcher would do better.
The screwdriver shows encouraging results for signal improvement over the
others on 80 and 40.
Seems the diameter of that bottom conductor on the screwdriver makes a big
difference at the lower frequencies.
Since the TS-480HX has two antenna jacks, I think an additional small
screwdriver is in order; One for 80-20; One for 20-6.
73
H.
NQ5H

Nice numbers, Adam. I'm only interesetd in the Hustler. Are these all
with very small reactance?--That is, insignificant relative to the real
part?

I haven't measured yet, but this says that on 40 we have a 2 : 1 SWR and on
80 it is about 2.4 : 1...?

Please indicate how you got these numbers.

What vehicle ?
Where is the antenna mounted ?
What type of antenna mount ?
How is the feed line shield connected to the vehicle ? (I put a jumper from
the mount "ground" to the trunk lid to get rid of 20M flakies.)
How did you measure them -- assuming they are measured...?
--
Steve N, K,9;d, c. i My email has no u's.

"H. Adam Stevens, NQ5H" wrote in message
...
QST
It's been a while since I posted all that bazooka data that made me stick
to
dipoles, so here goes:
I've been using Hustlers mobile for almost 40 years and find them
adequate;
The mast I bought in 1970 only recently failed.
I'm reworking my HF mobile installation around a TS-480HX and decided to
graduate to a screwdriver. I bought a Tarheel 200.
I prefer to operate a mobile antenna at it's resonant frequency and match
to
the impedance of the transmission line with a transformer.
So here I present the resonant feedpoint impedances of a Hustler (small
resonators), the Tarheel 200 screwdriver and a 103" whip on a bug catcher
on
a 54" Hustler base. All antennas on the same ball mount. Measurements by
MFJ. "Resonant" implies X=0.

band Hustler Screwdriver 103"/BugCatcher/54"
80 21 ohms 9 ohms 23 ohms
40 25 11 na
20 30 30
10 40 32

I really thought the huge bug catcher would do better.
The screwdriver shows encouraging results for signal improvement over the
others on 80 and 40.
Seems the diameter of that bottom conductor on the screwdriver makes a big
difference at the lower frequencies.
Since the TS-480HX has two antenna jacks, I think an additional small
screwdriver is in order; One for 80-20; One for 20-6.
73
H.
NQ5H

Hi Steve

"Steve Nosko" wrote in message
...
Nice numbers, Adam. I'm only interesetd in the Hustler. Are these all
with very small reactance?--That is, insignificant relative to the real
part?

I haven't measured yet, but this says that on 40 we have a 2 : 1 SWR and
on
80 it is about 2.4 : 1...?

Please indicate how you got these numbers.

What vehicle ?
Dodge Durango

Where is the antenna mounted ?
Ball mount on the right rear where you can get at the back from in the car.

What type of antenna mount ?
ball

How is the feed line shield connected to the vehicle ? (I put a jumper
from
the mount "ground" to the trunk lid to get rid of 20M flakies.)
Coax connector of the ball mount and 2" copper strap. Feed is less than 1
foot.

How did you measure them -- assuming they are measured...?

MFJ analyzer measured R at resonance (reactance is zero)
I then use a toroidal autoformer to get 50 ohms.
73
H.
NQ5H

--
Steve N, K,9;d, c. i My email has no u's.

"H. Adam Stevens, NQ5H" wrote in message
...
QST
It's been a while since I posted all that bazooka data that made me
stick
to
dipoles, so here goes:
I've been using Hustlers mobile for almost 40 years and find them
adequate;
The mast I bought in 1970 only recently failed.
I'm reworking my HF mobile installation around a TS-480HX and decided to
graduate to a screwdriver. I bought a Tarheel 200.
I prefer to operate a mobile antenna at it's resonant frequency and
match
to
the impedance of the transmission line with a transformer.
So here I present the resonant feedpoint impedances of a Hustler (small
resonators), the Tarheel 200 screwdriver and a 103" whip on a bug
catcher
on
a 54" Hustler base. All antennas on the same ball mount. Measurements by
MFJ. "Resonant" implies X=0.

band Hustler Screwdriver 103"/BugCatcher/54"
80 21 ohms 9 ohms 23 ohms
40 25 11 na
20 30 30
10 40 32

I really thought the huge bug catcher would do better.
The screwdriver shows encouraging results for signal improvement over
the
others on 80 and 40.
Seems the diameter of that bottom conductor on the screwdriver makes a
big
difference at the lower frequencies.
Since the TS-480HX has two antenna jacks, I think an additional small
screwdriver is in order; One for 80-20; One for 20-6.
73
H.
NQ5H

Doesn't; the Screwdriver's low feedpoint impendence mean it will be less
efficient not more?
--
Radio K4ia
Craig "Buck"
Fredericksburg, VA USA
FISTS 6702 cc 788 Diamond 64
"H. Adam Stevens, NQ5H" wrote in message
...
QST
It's been a while since I posted all that bazooka data that made me stick
to
dipoles, so here goes:
I've been using Hustlers mobile for almost 40 years and find them
adequate;
The mast I bought in 1970 only recently failed.
I'm reworking my HF mobile installation around a TS-480HX and decided to
graduate to a screwdriver. I bought a Tarheel 200.
I prefer to operate a mobile antenna at it's resonant frequency and match
to
the impedance of the transmission line with a transformer.
So here I present the resonant feedpoint impedances of a Hustler (small
resonators), the Tarheel 200 screwdriver and a 103" whip on a bug catcher
on
a 54" Hustler base. All antennas on the same ball mount. Measurements by
MFJ. "Resonant" implies X=0.

band Hustler Screwdriver 103"/BugCatcher/54"
80 21 ohms 9 ohms 23 ohms
40 25 11 na
20 30 30
10 40 32

I really thought the huge bug catcher would do better.
The screwdriver shows encouraging results for signal improvement over the
others on 80 and 40.
Seems the diameter of that bottom conductor on the screwdriver makes a big
difference at the lower frequencies.
Since the TS-480HX has two antenna jacks, I think an additional small
screwdriver is in order; One for 80-20; One for 20-6.
73
H.
NQ5H

No
It means there is less loss resistance.
The radiation resistance on 80 and 40 of all these short antennas is tiny, a
very few ohms.
At resonance the measured resistance is the sum of radiation and loss
resistance.
Matching the impedance at resonance results in the greatest measured field
strength, at least in my front pasture;
So making the antenna resonant, then matching the impedance, is my preferred
approach.
Using reactances to do that is the same as the bazooka antenna: storing
energy in tank circuits; A lossy enterprise.
Funny thing about this stuff, I built my first crystal set in 1956, my first
transmitter in 1961 and I'm not bored yet.
73
H.
NQ5H

"Craig Buck" wrote in message
news:ZT1Pb.4811$ZJ1.4783@lakeread01...
Doesn't; the Screwdriver's low feedpoint impendence mean it will be less
efficient not more?
--
Radio K4ia
Craig "Buck"
Fredericksburg, VA USA
FISTS 6702 cc 788 Diamond 64
"H. Adam Stevens, NQ5H" wrote in message
...
QST
It's been a while since I posted all that bazooka data that made me
stick
to
dipoles, so here goes:
I've been using Hustlers mobile for almost 40 years and find them
adequate;
The mast I bought in 1970 only recently failed.
I'm reworking my HF mobile installation around a TS-480HX and decided to
graduate to a screwdriver. I bought a Tarheel 200.
I prefer to operate a mobile antenna at it's resonant frequency and
match
to
the impedance of the transmission line with a transformer.
So here I present the resonant feedpoint impedances of a Hustler (small
resonators), the Tarheel 200 screwdriver and a 103" whip on a bug
catcher
on
a 54" Hustler base. All antennas on the same ball mount. Measurements by
MFJ. "Resonant" implies X=0.

band Hustler Screwdriver 103"/BugCatcher/54"
80 21 ohms 9 ohms 23 ohms
40 25 11 na
20 30 30
10 40 32

I really thought the huge bug catcher would do better.
The screwdriver shows encouraging results for signal improvement over
the
others on 80 and 40.
Seems the diameter of that bottom conductor on the screwdriver makes a
big
difference at the lower frequencies.
Since the TS-480HX has two antenna jacks, I think an additional small
screwdriver is in order; One for 80-20; One for 20-6.
73
H.
NQ5H

I was talking about radiation efficiency taking into account the ground
losses. The ARRL Antenna Book equation is Efficiency = Radiation Resistance
divided by the sum of Radiation Resistance + Ground loss + Coil loss. Plug
in a 6 ohm ground loss and whatever you want to assume for the coil loss.
The higher the radiation resistance the higher the efficiency. No?
--
Radio K4ia
Craig "Buck"
Fredericksburg, VA USA
FISTS 6702 cc 788 Diamond 64
"H. Adam Stevens" wrote in message
...
No
It means there is less loss resistance.
The radiation resistance on 80 and 40 of all these short antennas is tiny,
a
very few ohms.
At resonance the measured resistance is the sum of radiation and loss
resistance.
Matching the impedance at resonance results in the greatest measured field
strength, at least in my front pasture;
So making the antenna resonant, then matching the impedance, is my
preferred
approach.
Using reactances to do that is the same as the bazooka antenna: storing
energy in tank circuits; A lossy enterprise.
Funny thing about this stuff, I built my first crystal set in 1956, my
first
transmitter in 1961 and I'm not bored yet.
73
H.
NQ5H

"Craig Buck" wrote in message
news:ZT1Pb.4811$ZJ1.4783@lakeread01...
Doesn't; the Screwdriver's low feedpoint impendence mean it will be
less
efficient not more?
--
Radio K4ia
Craig "Buck"
Fredericksburg, VA USA
FISTS 6702 cc 788 Diamond 64
"H. Adam Stevens, NQ5H" wrote in message
...
QST
It's been a while since I posted all that bazooka data that made me
stick
to
dipoles, so here goes:
I've been using Hustlers mobile for almost 40 years and find them
adequate;
The mast I bought in 1970 only recently failed.
I'm reworking my HF mobile installation around a TS-480HX and decided
to
graduate to a screwdriver. I bought a Tarheel 200.
I prefer to operate a mobile antenna at it's resonant frequency and
match
to
the impedance of the transmission line with a transformer.
So here I present the resonant feedpoint impedances of a Hustler
(small
resonators), the Tarheel 200 screwdriver and a 103" whip on a bug
catcher
on
a 54" Hustler base. All antennas on the same ball mount. Measurements
by
MFJ. "Resonant" implies X=0.

band Hustler Screwdriver 103"/BugCatcher/54"
80 21 ohms 9 ohms 23 ohms
40 25 11 na
20 30 30
10 40 32

I really thought the huge bug catcher would do better.
The screwdriver shows encouraging results for signal improvement over
the
others on 80 and 40.
Seems the diameter of that bottom conductor on the screwdriver makes a
big
difference at the lower frequencies.
Since the TS-480HX has two antenna jacks, I think an additional small
screwdriver is in order; One for 80-20; One for 20-6.
73
H.
NQ5H

"H. Adam Stevens, NQ5H" wrote in message ...
QST
It's been a while since I posted all that bazooka data that made me stick to
dipoles, so here goes:
I've been using Hustlers mobile for almost 40 years and find them adequate;
The mast I bought in 1970 only recently failed.
I'm reworking my HF mobile installation around a TS-480HX and decided to
graduate to a screwdriver. I bought a Tarheel 200.
I prefer to operate a mobile antenna at it's resonant frequency and match to
the impedance of the transmission line with a transformer.
So here I present the resonant feedpoint impedances of a Hustler (small
resonators), the Tarheel 200 screwdriver and a 103" whip on a bug catcher on
a 54" Hustler base. All antennas on the same ball mount. Measurements by
MFJ. "Resonant" implies X=0.

band Hustler Screwdriver 103"/BugCatcher/54"
80 21 ohms 9 ohms 23 ohms
40 25 11 na
20 30 30
10 40 32

I really thought the huge bug catcher would do better.

I'm not sure if I'm getting the problem. Is the bugcatcher failing to
perform?
I would *think* the bugcatcher would be the best of the bunch
regardless of the thickness of the lower mast. Which is the best on
the air? That bugcatcher *should* be kickin butt on 80m compared to
the others. "I'm assuming the screwdriver is shorter". At the least,
it should be equal to the screwdriver. Normally, I would think
better...


The screwdriver shows encouraging results for signal improvement over the
others on 80 and 40.

Even the bugcatcher? Thats weird...
Seems the diameter of that bottom conductor on the screwdriver makes a big
difference at the lower frequencies.

I don't really buy it though. Shouldn't make *that* much difference.
Something seems weird to me....Not sure what it is though...MK

I played with the Hustler when it was introduced, and got the impression it
was a loser 40 years ago. I now wonder if that lower mast is purposely
lossy. Or maybe just accidentally lossy and they ran with it. Looks good
on SWR meters which hams are infamous for. I would modify your observation
about the diameter of the bottom section to: The RF impedance of the lower
section really counts. How about trying either a copper braid or tube
around the Hustler or a copper plated base section under the bug catcher and
see what that measures.

--
Crazy George
Remove N O and S P A M imbedded in return address
"H. Adam Stevens, NQ5H" wrote in message
...
QST
It's been a while since I posted all that bazooka data that made me stick
to
dipoles, so here goes:
I've been using Hustlers mobile for almost 40 years and find them
adequate;
The mast I bought in 1970 only recently failed.
I'm reworking my HF mobile installation around a TS-480HX and decided to
graduate to a screwdriver. I bought a Tarheel 200.
I prefer to operate a mobile antenna at it's resonant frequency and match
to
the impedance of the transmission line with a transformer.
So here I present the resonant feedpoint impedances of a Hustler (small
resonators), the Tarheel 200 screwdriver and a 103" whip on a bug catcher
on
a 54" Hustler base. All antennas on the same ball mount. Measurements by
MFJ. "Resonant" implies X=0.

band Hustler Screwdriver 103"/BugCatcher/54"
80 21 ohms 9 ohms 23 ohms
40 25 11 na
20 30 30
10 40 32

I really thought the huge bug catcher would do better.
The screwdriver shows encouraging results for signal improvement over the
others on 80 and 40.
Seems the diameter of that bottom conductor on the screwdriver makes a big
difference at the lower frequencies.
Since the TS-480HX has two antenna jacks, I think an additional small
screwdriver is in order; One for 80-20; One for 20-6.
73
H.
NQ5H

Building an antenna using a big copper pipe for the base is appealing.
It's the motor tune feature on 80 that attracted me to the screwdriver.
All a low SWR insures is that you aren't heating up your transmitter.
I use a field strength meter.
73
H.

"Crazy George" wrote in message
...
I played with the Hustler when it was introduced, and got the impression
it
was a loser 40 years ago. I now wonder if that lower mast is purposely
lossy. Or maybe just accidentally lossy and they ran with it. Looks good
on SWR meters which hams are infamous for. I would modify your
observation
about the diameter of the bottom section to: The RF impedance of the
lower
section really counts. How about trying either a copper braid or tube
around the Hustler or a copper plated base section under the bug catcher
and
see what that measures.

--
Crazy George
Remove N O and S P A M imbedded in return address
"H. Adam Stevens, NQ5H" wrote in message
...
QST
It's been a while since I posted all that bazooka data that made me
stick
to
dipoles, so here goes:
I've been using Hustlers mobile for almost 40 years and find them
adequate;
The mast I bought in 1970 only recently failed.
I'm reworking my HF mobile installation around a TS-480HX and decided to
graduate to a screwdriver. I bought a Tarheel 200.
I prefer to operate a mobile antenna at it's resonant frequency and
match
to
the impedance of the transmission line with a transformer.
So here I present the resonant feedpoint impedances of a Hustler (small
resonators), the Tarheel 200 screwdriver and a 103" whip on a bug
catcher
on
a 54" Hustler base. All antennas on the same ball mount. Measurements by
MFJ. "Resonant" implies X=0.

band Hustler Screwdriver 103"/BugCatcher/54"
80 21 ohms 9 ohms 23 ohms
40 25 11 na
20 30 30
10 40 32

I really thought the huge bug catcher would do better.
The screwdriver shows encouraging results for signal improvement over
the
others on 80 and 40.
Seems the diameter of that bottom conductor on the screwdriver makes a
big
difference at the lower frequencies.
Since the TS-480HX has two antenna jacks, I think an additional small
screwdriver is in order; One for 80-20; One for 20-6.
73
H.
NQ5H

Craig Buck wrote:
I was talking about radiation efficiency taking into account the ground
losses. The ARRL Antenna Book equation is Efficiency = Radiation Resistance
divided by the sum of Radiation Resistance + Ground loss + Coil loss. Plug
in a 6 ohm ground loss and whatever you want to assume for the coil loss.
The higher the radiation resistance the higher the efficiency. No?

For an 8 ft center-loaded whip on 75m, the ARRL Antenna Book gives 0.8 ohms
as the radiation resistance and 22 ohms as the feedpoint impedance. That's
an efficiency of about 3.6%, about 4 watts radiated for 100 watts input.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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