Looks like W8JI type of response: I am right, I will not respond to
questions and arguments and my is last word!"

Fact 1. - When hairpin or beta match is inserted in the driven element or
any resonant half wave dipole, it has current flowing through it.

Fact 2. That element has to be shortened if resonance is to be maintained,
which means that it is a center inductive loading element, hairpin, beta
match is the part of the antenna standing wave circuit.

Fact 3. There is current that would more, less belong to the antenna element
flowing in the hairpin, folded on itself and on right angle to driven
element, not contributing to overall current distribution. That can be seen
in my EZNEC model in the article. That portion of the current is not in line
with the rest of the element, it is missing from as to compared to full size
element and therefore efficiency is slightly lower (middle part of the
cosine wave is "missing" folded with hairpin). On typical 40m dipole, as I
modeled, it accounts for about 0.2 dB loss.

The original argument was is the beta match lossy or not.
My modeling of the real situation is ignored, also findings and experimental
verification of others who replaced hairpins with solenoid coils is ignored.
What you are "arguing" is that if you place the matching network in the
driven element (now you even lengthen it) that there is no loss.
http://www.k3bu.us/beta_match.htm
Is my modeling of 40m dipole wrong? Where? On dipole it shows about 0.2 dB
loss, which gets bit more when used in multielement array.

If you are denying that there is a RF antenna current flowing in the Beta
match hairpin, then you are denying reality and I rest my case. No point of
arguing or discussing when you do not show where I am wrong, but you offer
"proof" by juggling matching components at the feedpoint. We are talking
about hairpin that is part of the antenna element, has current flowing in
the system and it has feedline attached at the feedpoint of element and
hairpin. No tricks with coils or capacitors inserted half wave somewhere.

73 Yuri, K3BU.us

We are not arguing loss due to loading, we are arguing - does hairpin beta
match contribute to the loss in the system or not.
I mentioned that there are better alternatives, if one choses to be less
lossy.


"Wes" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Feb 10, 7:27 pm, "Yuri Blanarovich" wrote:

My previous ISP sold me off to a new one. SInce that time I've had no
end of email problems and in addition the new guys don't provide
newsgroups, so I've been reduced to using Google Groups. Yuch.

I spent too much time composing a response to Yuri's last post and
then did not see it appear after posting. I will not waste further
time, but in a nutshell I offered another case using the self-
reactance of the DE as part of the matching network.

In this example, to avoid any "loss due to loading" resulting from
shortening the DE, I *lengthen* the DE to obtain an inductive
reactance for the series arm of an L-network and then use a shunt
capacitor for the second matching element.

The model is he

http://www.k6mhe.com/n7ws/N7WS_Yagi_Lengthened.EZ

Run the analysis, and add a shunt 195 pF and see what you get.

Regards,

Wes N7WS