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Old April 7th 07, 05:17 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Default Constructive interference in radiowave propagation

On 7 Apr 2007 08:55:58 -0700, "Keith Dysart" wrote:

If the waves are mutually incoherent, there is
NO interference which means no effect on each other.
Constructive and destructive interference is
impossible between two mutually incoherent waves
(under ordinary experimental conditions).


By "NO interference" did you mean "sufficiently close to zero
that it can be ignored for engineering purposes", or "exactly
zero"?


Hi Keith,

Your question of parsing "NO" reveals one of those binary shifts in an
otherwise analog word that has me puzzled too. There is also the
amusing "mutually incoherent" redundancy. Aside from these sophisms,
there is a conceptual, quixotic tilting at windmills in the phrase:
no effect on each other

as if waves ever affected each other (irrespective of coherence -
mutuality notwithstanding).

If the past is an indicator of future activity, this topic is about to
split into other discussion with a desperate attempt to appear to be
answering for these strange theses.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC
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Old April 7th 07, 05:48 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Default Constructive interference in radiowave propagation

Richard Clark wrote:
There is also the
amusing "mutually incoherent" redundancy.


Not my words, Richard - they are straight from Born and Wolf.
Do you really think Born and Wolf would engage in "redundancy"
if it were meaningless. Suggest that you learn the difference
between mutually inclusive and mutually exclusive.

Aside from these sophisms,
there is a conceptual, quixotic tilting at windmills in the phrase:
no effect on each other

as if waves ever affected each other (irrespective of coherence -
mutuality notwithstanding).


Coherent waves can and do affect each other. It's called
interference where the sum of the intensities is different
from the intensity of the sums. Incidentally, the intensity
of the sums is the mistake you made when you calculated
the reflection from non-reflective glass to be brighter
than the surface of the sun.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com
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Old April 7th 07, 05:56 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Default Constructive interference in radiowave propagation

Cecil Moore wrote:
Incidentally, the intensity of the sums

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
is the mistake you made when you calculated
the reflection from non-reflective glass to be brighter
than the surface of the sun.


Sorry, that should be the "sum of the intensities".
The intensity of the sums is the way to correctly
calculate total intensity. The sum of the intensities
yields an incorrect answer as Richard earlier discovered
with his "reflections brighter than the surface of the
sun" calculation.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com
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Old April 7th 07, 06:43 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Default Constructive interference in radiowave propagation

On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 11:48:23 -0500, Cecil Moore
wrote:

There is also the
amusing "mutually incoherent" redundancy.


Not my words, Richard - they are straight from Born and Wolf.
Do you really think Born and Wolf would engage in "redundancy"
if it were meaningless.


Poor language is not excused by example. Being meaningless I leave to
your interpretations, however.

This only reveal two incidents that are amusements.

Are you sleeping with Born and Wolf now?
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Old April 7th 07, 06:59 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Default Constructive interference in radiowave propagation

Richard Clark wrote:
Poor language is not excused by example. Being meaningless I leave to
your interpretations, however.


You seem to have missed (Born and Wolf)'s point.
Between coherent and mutually incoherent is
a span of signals which they call partially
incoherent. There are degrees of incoherency
as can be seen from your postings. :-)
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com


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Old April 8th 07, 01:31 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Default Constructive interference in radiowave propagation

On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 17:59:03 GMT, Cecil Moore
wrote:

Between coherent and mutually incoherent is
a span of signals which they call partially
incoherent.


As Reggie would say

"BAFFLEGAB!"
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Old April 8th 07, 04:45 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Default Constructive interference in radiowave propagation

On Apr 7, 7:31 pm, Richard Clark wrote:
On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 17:59:03 GMT, Cecil Moore
wrote:

Between coherent and mutually incoherent is
a span of signals which they call partially
incoherent.


That should have been "partially coherent".

As Reggie would say "BAFFLEGAB!"


Don't blame me - blame Born and Wolf - whom a lot of people respect.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

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Old April 8th 07, 12:57 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Default Constructive interference in radiowave propagation

On Apr 7, 11:45 pm, "Cecil Moore" wrote:
On Apr 7, 7:31 pm, Richard Clark wrote:

On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 17:59:03 GMT, Cecil Moore
wrote:


Between coherent and mutually incoherent is
a span of signals which they call partially
incoherent.


That should have been "partially coherent".

As Reggie would say "BAFFLEGAB!"


Don't blame me - blame Born and Wolf - whom a lot of people respect.


Do Born and Wolf offer crisp definitions of the boundaries
between coherent, partially coherent, and mutually incoherent?

Or is it a continuum arbitrarily divided into 3 regions for
the purposes of discussion?

....Keith

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