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#1
June 27th 07, 10:02 PM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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20 gaussian questions for art
"art" wrote in message ups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:36, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message oups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:09, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 15:17, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 14:21, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 25 Jun, 13:10, "Dave" wrote: Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? Not necessary Dave. Richard is very familiar with the subject at hand as well as its underpinnings that can be understood by EEs and is providing a reference that will make all things clear. You asked for it and your wish is going to be granted in a clear and precise manner that you and the group have requested. You should now be able to build it yourself with out mumbo jumbo from me to confuse you. No need for me anymore, you now have an expert at your call. Don't forget Poyntings input. Art whats a 'Richard'?? I want to hear it straight from the source. I have asked over and over for you to define the terms and you can't put it into words this poor engineer can understand, so i thought we would try to build an example from the bottom up. but if you can't help with that then maybe the whole thing is just out of my reach and i should go back to good old yagis and phased arrays.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sounds reasonable if it sounds so reasonable, how many wires does it take?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As many as you want and have fun. The subject is dead. Let it go Join the boiling water saga that is where the action is Art no, this is my subject so i'll say when it's dead... i don't want to know how many i can use, i want to know the minimum number necessary.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - One ok, thats a start. assuming i want to operate on 14195khz, how long should the wire be?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Whatever wire you have throw it away and get a longer one ok, random length... can do. now how do i connect it to a piece of coax? |
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#2
June 27th 07, 10:13 PM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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20 gaussian questions for art
On 27 Jun, 14:02, "Dave" wrote:
"art" wrote in message ups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:36, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:09, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 15:17, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 14:21, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 25 Jun, 13:10, "Dave" wrote: Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? Not necessary Dave. Richard is very familiar with the subject at hand as well as its underpinnings that can be understood by EEs and is providing a reference that will make all things clear. You asked for it and your wish is going to be granted in a clear and precise manner that you and the group have requested. You should now be able to build it yourself with out mumbo jumbo from me to confuse you. No need for me anymore, you now have an expert at your call. Don't forget Poyntings input. Art whats a 'Richard'?? I want to hear it straight from the source. I have asked over and over for you to define the terms and you can't put it into words this poor engineer can understand, so i thought we would try to build an example from the bottom up. but if you can't help with that then maybe the whole thing is just out of my reach and i should go back to good old yagis and phased arrays.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sounds reasonable if it sounds so reasonable, how many wires does it take?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As many as you want and have fun. The subject is dead. Let it go Join the boiling water saga that is where the action is Art no, this is my subject so i'll say when it's dead... i don't want to know how many i can use, i want to know the minimum number necessary.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - One ok, thats a start. assuming i want to operate on 14195khz, how long should the wire be?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Whatever wire you have throw it away and get a longer one ok, random length... can do. now how do i connect it to a piece of coax?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - O.K. For the last time I will go along until such time it is obvious you have other intentions.So I start again. Make a dipole of random shapes and heights that is resonant at your design frequency. Note the radiator can be any length as long as it is resonant. For the sake of this discussion or interrogation let us use a plain half wave dipole. The feed coax feeds the dipole at it's center in the normal way. Art KB9MZ......XG |
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#3
June 27th 07, 10:24 PM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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20 gaussian questions for art
"art" wrote in message ups.com... On 27 Jun, 14:02, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message ups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:36, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:09, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 15:17, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 14:21, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 25 Jun, 13:10, "Dave" wrote: Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? Not necessary Dave. Richard is very familiar with the subject at hand as well as its underpinnings that can be understood by EEs and is providing a reference that will make all things clear. You asked for it and your wish is going to be granted in a clear and precise manner that you and the group have requested. You should now be able to build it yourself with out mumbo jumbo from me to confuse you. No need for me anymore, you now have an expert at your call. Don't forget Poyntings input. Art whats a 'Richard'?? I want to hear it straight from the source. I have asked over and over for you to define the terms and you can't put it into words this poor engineer can understand, so i thought we would try to build an example from the bottom up. but if you can't help with that then maybe the whole thing is just out of my reach and i should go back to good old yagis and phased arrays.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sounds reasonable if it sounds so reasonable, how many wires does it take?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As many as you want and have fun. The subject is dead. Let it go Join the boiling water saga that is where the action is Art no, this is my subject so i'll say when it's dead... i don't want to know how many i can use, i want to know the minimum number necessary.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - One ok, thats a start. assuming i want to operate on 14195khz, how long should the wire be?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Whatever wire you have throw it away and get a longer one ok, random length... can do. now how do i connect it to a piece of coax?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - O.K. For the last time I will go along until such time it is obvious you have other intentions.So I start again. Make a dipole of random shapes and heights that is resonant at your design frequency. Note the radiator can be any length as long as it is resonant. For the sake of this discussion or interrogation let us use a plain half wave dipole. The feed coax feeds the dipole at it's center in the normal way. Art KB9MZ......XG ok, so its a plain half wave dipole, fed with normal coax in the normal way. so what makes it 'gaussian'? |
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#4
June 27th 07, 11:00 PM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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20 gaussian questions for art
On 27 Jun, 14:24, "Dave" wrote:
"art" wrote in message ups.com... On 27 Jun, 14:02, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message roups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:36, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:09, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 15:17, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 14:21, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 25 Jun, 13:10, "Dave" wrote: Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? Not necessary Dave. Richard is very familiar with the subject at hand as well as its underpinnings that can be understood by EEs and is providing a reference that will make all things clear. You asked for it and your wish is going to be granted in a clear and precise manner that you and the group have requested. You should now be able to build it yourself with out mumbo jumbo from me to confuse you. No need for me anymore, you now have an expert at your call. Don't forget Poyntings input. Art whats a 'Richard'?? I want to hear it straight from the source. I have asked over and over for you to define the terms and you can't put it into words this poor engineer can understand, so i thought we would try to build an example from the bottom up. but if you can't help with that then maybe the whole thing is just out of my reach and i should go back to good old yagis and phased arrays.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sounds reasonable if it sounds so reasonable, how many wires does it take?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As many as you want and have fun. The subject is dead. Let it go Join the boiling water saga that is where the action is Art no, this is my subject so i'll say when it's dead... i don't want to know how many i can use, i want to know the minimum number necessary.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - One ok, thats a start. assuming i want to operate on 14195khz, how long should the wire be?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Whatever wire you have throw it away and get a longer one ok, random length... can do. now how do i connect it to a piece of coax?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - O.K. For the last time I will go along until such time it is obvious you have other intentions.So I start again. Make a dipole of random shapes and heights that is resonant at your design frequency. Note the radiator can be any length as long as it is resonant. For the sake of this discussion or interrogation let us use a plain half wave dipole. The feed coax feeds the dipole at it's center in the normal way. Art KB9MZ......XG ok, so its a plain half wave dipole, fed with normal coax in the normal way. so what makes it 'gaussian'?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Because it's resonant at the desired frequency. This is the basic form of a Gaussian antenna which is also the starting point of a Yagi antenna if viewed as a single radiator Art |
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#5
June 27th 07, 11:28 PM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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20 gaussian questions for art
"art" wrote in message oups.com... On 27 Jun, 14:24, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message ups.com... On 27 Jun, 14:02, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message roups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:36, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:09, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 15:17, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 14:21, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 25 Jun, 13:10, "Dave" wrote: Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? Not necessary Dave. Richard is very familiar with the subject at hand as well as its underpinnings that can be understood by EEs and is providing a reference that will make all things clear. You asked for it and your wish is going to be granted in a clear and precise manner that you and the group have requested. You should now be able to build it yourself with out mumbo jumbo from me to confuse you. No need for me anymore, you now have an expert at your call. Don't forget Poyntings input. Art whats a 'Richard'?? I want to hear it straight from the source. I have asked over and over for you to define the terms and you can't put it into words this poor engineer can understand, so i thought we would try to build an example from the bottom up. but if you can't help with that then maybe the whole thing is just out of my reach and i should go back to good old yagis and phased arrays.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sounds reasonable if it sounds so reasonable, how many wires does it take?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As many as you want and have fun. The subject is dead. Let it go Join the boiling water saga that is where the action is Art no, this is my subject so i'll say when it's dead... i don't want to know how many i can use, i want to know the minimum number necessary.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - One ok, thats a start. assuming i want to operate on 14195khz, how long should the wire be?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Whatever wire you have throw it away and get a longer one ok, random length... can do. now how do i connect it to a piece of coax?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - O.K. For the last time I will go along until such time it is obvious you have other intentions.So I start again. Make a dipole of random shapes and heights that is resonant at your design frequency. Note the radiator can be any length as long as it is resonant. For the sake of this discussion or interrogation let us use a plain half wave dipole. The feed coax feeds the dipole at it's center in the normal way. Art KB9MZ......XG ok, so its a plain half wave dipole, fed with normal coax in the normal way. so what makes it 'gaussian'?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Because it's resonant at the desired frequency. This is the basic form of a Gaussian antenna which is also the starting point of a Yagi antenna if viewed as a single radiator Art so 'gaussian' == 'resonant' why didn't you say so in the first place? so a properly tuned yagi-uda array is a 'gaussian' antenna? |
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#6
June 28th 07, 12:11 AM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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20 gaussian questions for art
On 27 Jun, 15:28, "Dave" wrote:
"art" wrote in message oups.com... On 27 Jun, 14:24, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message roups.com... On 27 Jun, 14:02, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message roups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:36, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:09, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 15:17, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 14:21, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 25 Jun, 13:10, "Dave" wrote: Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? Not necessary Dave. Richard is very familiar with the subject at hand as well as its underpinnings that can be understood by EEs and is providing a reference that will make all things clear. You asked for it and your wish is going to be granted in a clear and precise manner that you and the group have requested. You should now be able to build it yourself with out mumbo jumbo from me to confuse you. No need for me anymore, you now have an expert at your call. Don't forget Poyntings input. Art whats a 'Richard'?? I want to hear it straight from the source. I have asked over and over for you to define the terms and you can't put it into words this poor engineer can understand, so i thought we would try to build an example from the bottom up. but if you can't help with that then maybe the whole thing is just out of my reach and i should go back to good old yagis and phased arrays.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sounds reasonable if it sounds so reasonable, how many wires does it take?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As many as you want and have fun. The subject is dead. Let it go Join the boiling water saga that is where the action is Art no, this is my subject so i'll say when it's dead... i don't want to know how many i can use, i want to know the minimum number necessary.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - One ok, thats a start. assuming i want to operate on 14195khz, how long should the wire be?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Whatever wire you have throw it away and get a longer one ok, random length... can do. now how do i connect it to a piece of coax?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - O.K. For the last time I will go along until such time it is obvious you have other intentions.So I start again. Make a dipole of random shapes and heights that is resonant at your design frequency. Note the radiator can be any length as long as it is resonant. For the sake of this discussion or interrogation let us use a plain half wave dipole. The feed coax feeds the dipole at it's center in the normal way. Art KB9MZ......XG ok, so its a plain half wave dipole, fed with normal coax in the normal way. so what makes it 'gaussian'?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Because it's resonant at the desired frequency. This is the basic form of a Gaussian antenna which is also the starting point of a Yagi antenna if viewed as a single radiator Art so 'gaussian' == 'resonant' why didn't you say so in the first place? so a properly tuned yagi-uda array is a 'gaussian' antenna?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - First David before I go on others may jump in and take the thread away from you. If that occurres we can talk via E mail so that you are not penalised They can use another thread in parallel which I will respond to. This thread will remain a civil and academic interrogation as you have requested. .......... No, I would not stretch things that far based on just one element or one piece of a jigsaw puzzle A Yagi array is based on an array of elements not just one. You wanted to procede in small steps as provided by you, specific and to the point. For starters a Yagi array is planar and a Gaussian array antenna can be and usually , from my research, is otherwise. Note the Gaussian element is of random shape and height but always resonant and not necessarily tied to a 1/2 wl. Art |
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#7
June 28th 07, 05:26 PM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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20 gaussian questions for art
On 27 Jun, 16:11, art wrote:
On 27 Jun, 15:28, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message roups.com... On 27 Jun, 14:24, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message roups.com... On 27 Jun, 14:02, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message roups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:36, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:09, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 15:17, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 14:21, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 25 Jun, 13:10, "Dave" wrote: Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? Not necessary Dave. Richard is very familiar with the subject at hand as well as its underpinnings that can be understood by EEs and is providing a reference that will make all things clear. You asked for it and your wish is going to be granted in a clear and precise manner that you and the group have requested. You should now be able to build it yourself with out mumbo jumbo from me to confuse you. No need for me anymore, you now have an expert at your call. Don't forget Poyntings input. Art whats a 'Richard'?? I want to hear it straight from the source. I have asked over and over for you to define the terms and you can't put it into words this poor engineer can understand, so i thought we would try to build an example from the bottom up. but if you can't help with that then maybe the whole thing is just out of my reach and i should go back to good old yagis and phased arrays.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sounds reasonable if it sounds so reasonable, how many wires does it take?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As many as you want and have fun. The subject is dead. Let it go Join the boiling water saga that is where the action is Art no, this is my subject so i'll say when it's dead... i don't want to know how many i can use, i want to know the minimum number necessary.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - One ok, thats a start. assuming i want to operate on 14195khz, how long should the wire be?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Whatever wire you have throw it away and get a longer one ok, random length... can do. now how do i connect it to a piece of coax?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - O.K. For the last time I will go along until such time it is obvious you have other intentions.So I start again. Make a dipole of random shapes and heights that is resonant at your design frequency. Note the radiator can be any length as long as it is resonant. For the sake of this discussion or interrogation let us use a plain half wave dipole. The feed coax feeds the dipole at it's center in the normal way. Art KB9MZ......XG ok, so its a plain half wave dipole, fed with normal coax in the normal way. so what makes it 'gaussian'?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Because it's resonant at the desired frequency. This is the basic form of a Gaussian antenna which is also the starting point of a Yagi antenna if viewed as a single radiator Art so 'gaussian' == 'resonant' why didn't you say so in the first place? so a properly tuned yagi-uda array is a 'gaussian' antenna?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - First David before I go on others may jump in and take the thread away from you. If that occurres we can talk via E mail so that you are not penalised They can use another thread in parallel which I will respond to. This thread will remain a civil and academic interrogation as you have requested. ......... No, I would not stretch things that far based on just one element or one piece of a jigsaw puzzle A Yagi array is based on an array of elements not just one. You wanted to procede in small steps as provided by you, specific and to the point. For starters a Yagi array is planar and a Gaussian array antenna can be and usually , from my research, is otherwise. Note the Gaussian element is of random shape and height but always resonant and not necessarily tied to a 1/2 wl. Art- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - For those you may be interested I did not move to E mail it was just that the interogation stopped after my last response. Why I do not know but at least you know that the thread stopping was not due to anything on my part. Obviously this thread is now dead. Regards Art |
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#8
June 28th 07, 08:42 PM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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20 gaussian questions for art
"art" wrote in message oups.com... On 27 Jun, 15:28, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message oups.com... On 27 Jun, 14:24, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message roups.com... On 27 Jun, 14:02, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message roups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:36, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:09, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 15:17, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 14:21, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 25 Jun, 13:10, "Dave" wrote: Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? Not necessary Dave. Richard is very familiar with the subject at hand as well as its underpinnings that can be understood by EEs and is providing a reference that will make all things clear. You asked for it and your wish is going to be granted in a clear and precise manner that you and the group have requested. You should now be able to build it yourself with out mumbo jumbo from me to confuse you. No need for me anymore, you now have an expert at your call. Don't forget Poyntings input. Art whats a 'Richard'?? I want to hear it straight from the source. I have asked over and over for you to define the terms and you can't put it into words this poor engineer can understand, so i thought we would try to build an example from the bottom up. but if you can't help with that then maybe the whole thing is just out of my reach and i should go back to good old yagis and phased arrays.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sounds reasonable if it sounds so reasonable, how many wires does it take?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As many as you want and have fun. The subject is dead. Let it go Join the boiling water saga that is where the action is Art no, this is my subject so i'll say when it's dead... i don't want to know how many i can use, i want to know the minimum number necessary.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - One ok, thats a start. assuming i want to operate on 14195khz, how long should the wire be?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Whatever wire you have throw it away and get a longer one ok, random length... can do. now how do i connect it to a piece of coax?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - O.K. For the last time I will go along until such time it is obvious you have other intentions.So I start again. Make a dipole of random shapes and heights that is resonant at your design frequency. Note the radiator can be any length as long as it is resonant. For the sake of this discussion or interrogation let us use a plain half wave dipole. The feed coax feeds the dipole at it's center in the normal way. Art KB9MZ......XG ok, so its a plain half wave dipole, fed with normal coax in the normal way. so what makes it 'gaussian'?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Because it's resonant at the desired frequency. This is the basic form of a Gaussian antenna which is also the starting point of a Yagi antenna if viewed as a single radiator Art so 'gaussian' == 'resonant' why didn't you say so in the first place? so a properly tuned yagi-uda array is a 'gaussian' antenna?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - First David before I go on others may jump in and take the thread away from you. If that occurres we can talk via E mail so that you are not penalised They can use another thread in parallel which I will respond to. This thread will remain a civil and academic interrogation as you have requested. ......... No, I would not stretch things that far based on just one element or one piece of a jigsaw puzzle A Yagi array is based on an array of elements not just one. You wanted to procede in small steps as provided by you, specific and to the point. For starters a Yagi array is planar and a Gaussian array antenna can be and usually , from my research, is otherwise. Note the Gaussian element is of random shape and height but always resonant and not necessarily tied to a 1/2 wl. Art no, the interrogation isn't over... it was just my bedtime. ok, so ignore the yagi for now. you classify a resonant random length wire as a gaussian element. is there any other essential characteristic besides resonance? How does 'equilibrium' fit into the description? |
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#9
July 1st 07, 05:59 AM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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20 gaussian questions for art
Dave wrote:
"art" wrote in message - Show quoted text - Because it's resonant at the desired frequency. This is the basic form of a Gaussian antenna which is also the starting point of a Yagi antenna if viewed as a single radiator Art so 'gaussian' == 'resonant' why didn't you say so in the first place? so a properly tuned yagi-uda array is a 'gaussian' antenna? Art has obviously never designed or built a yagi. A yagi's driven element is as likely to be resonant right at the design frequency when seen as a separate element as a wet shoe. Sometimes it will be, but don't bet on it. tom K0TAR |
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