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AM electromagnetic waves: 20 KHz modulation frequency on an astronomically-low carrier frequency
"Radium" wrote in message ps.com... On Jun 29, 9:15 pm, John Smith I wrote: Radium wrote: WTF are you thinking when you describe the 20 Khz signal as, "a pure-sine-wave-tone] with a frequency of 20 KHz and an amplitude of 1-watt-per-meter-squared" One square meter of copper wire squared, a squared meter of modulation xfrmr ... ? Sorry that should be 1 X [10^-6] Watts-per-m^2 http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/GBSSC...nd/u11l2b.html 1 X [10^-6] Watts-per-m^2 is about the loudness of a "normal conversation" according to the above link. F-------------------king typos!!!!!!!!!! Your question sounds like one of a high school physics student attempting to ask a seemingly logical--yet complex question, and of no real world value. Your ability at obfuscation is only mundane ... If what you say is true, you have an interest, what is the purpose of your question? My basic question is if I have an AM receiver which receives signals on a carrier frequency of Fc, is it mathematically-possible for me to receive a modulator signal -- on that station -- of a frequency higher than Fc? If not, then why? If not, then how are the submarines which use ELFs [Extremely Low carrier Frequencies around 3 to 30 Hz] able to perform voice communications? I just stretched the question out to astronomical extremes. I have a habit of doing that. Radium It is not possible to modulate a carrier frequency at a frequency higher than the carrier frequency. It wouldn't be a carrier frequency then, the higher frequency would become the carrier frequency by default. ELF communications are carried out at very slow data rates, only a few characters per hour at best. Normal demodulation techniques are useless at these frequencies and messages are received by what amounts to comparing the noise levels on a given very narrow frequency band over long periods. Computers are easily capable of performing this task. Messages are generally sent as 3 character codes which are then looked up in a code book to read the full text of the message. Each message can take half an hour or more to send. Only a very limited set of pre arranged messages can be passed but this is enough to tell a sub to approach the surface and establish line of sight comms direct to a satellite, when more detailed messages can be passed securely and at high speeds on higher frequencies (i.e voice and data communications). Voice comms cannot be passed at VLF or ELF frequencies. Nuclear subs are extremely autonomous. There is no quick way to establish communications once they have left port and submerged. It is possible to communicate at a base band frequency of 0Hz. This is what happens when you talk down a hard wired telephone or intercom. At a telephone exchange (switching centre), the signals from each line are modulated onto a higher frequency for onward transmission down a trunk wire cable or fibre optic cable. The multiplexed high frequency modulated signals are down converted back to audio frequencies once they reach the intended destination. It is also possible to transmit this signal through the air (at incredibly low efficiencies and powers). The miles of cables snaking through the trenches in World War One were so long that messages could be intercepted by the enemy listening in without any direct connection to the system. A good ground connection and half a mile of wire rolled out across no mans land was sufficient to pick up the signals from the other side. Systems were also discovered which employed two widely separated ground connections and avoided the need to send men out on a suicide mission to carry wires towards the enemy trenches. Mike G0ULI |
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AM electromagnetic waves: 20 KHz modulation frequency on an astronomically-low carrier frequency
On Jun 30, 3:32 am, "Mike Kaliski" wrote:
It is not possible to modulate a carrier frequency at a frequency higher than the carrier frequency. Why not? I am getting conflicting answers. Some say it's possible to modulate a carrier frequency at a frequency higher than the carrier frequency, others say it isn't. Who is right? |
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AM electromagnetic waves: 20 KHz modulation frequency on an astronomically-lowcarrier frequency
Radium wrote:
... I am getting conflicting answers. Some say it's possible to modulate a carrier frequency at a frequency higher than the carrier frequency, others say it isn't. Who is right? Radium: Use simple logic, you can modulate a dc (0 Hz) with higher freq (voice), (hint, your telephone line is an example) right? However, when you get into RF--possible, usable, desirable are seperate and distinct things. Again, with simple logic, modulating a 30 CPS signal with limited voice freq (say 5K wide) is going to create a LOT of harmonics and mixed signals, ain't it? Suggesting a very wide band receiver would be needed to begin with ... in my humble opinion, and for various reasons, NO, it is NOT possible ... Regards, JS |
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AM electromagnetic waves: 20 KHz modulation frequency on an astronomically-low carrier frequency
On Jun 30, 12:55 pm, John Smith I wrote:
Radium wrote: ... I am getting conflicting answers. Some say it's possible to modulate a carrier frequency at a frequency higher than the carrier frequency, others say it isn't. Who is right? Radium: Use simple logic, you can modulate a dc (0 Hz) with higher freq (voice), (hint, your telephone line is an example) right? However, when you get into RF--possible, usable, desirable are seperate and distinct things. Again, with simple logic, modulating a 30 CPS signal with limited voice freq (say 5K wide) is going to create a LOT of harmonics and mixed signals, ain't it? Suggesting a very wide band receiver would be needed to begin with ... in my humble opinion, and for various reasons, NO, it is NOT possible ... Regards, JS |
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AM electromagnetic waves: 20 KHz modulation frequency on an astronomically-low carrier frequency
On Jun 30, 12:55 pm, John Smith I wrote:
Use simple logic, you can modulate a dc (0 Hz) with higher freq (voice), (hint, your telephone line is an example) right? The telephone does not use either AM or FM. It is simply the electrical equivalent of the sound that gets into the microphone. You input a 1 KHz tone into the microphone, telephone lines will carry a 1 KHz AC current to the destination. The louder the sound into the microphone, the stronger the amperage in the telephone lines. |
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AM electromagnetic waves: 20 KHz modulation frequency on anastronomically-low carrier frequency
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AM electromagnetic waves: 20 KHz modulation frequency on an astronomically-lowcarrier frequency
Radium wrote:
You input a 1 KHz tone into the microphone, telephone lines will carry a 1 KHz AC current to the destination. The louder the sound into the microphone, the stronger the amperage in the telephone lines. On a side note, its actually voltage modulation towards the subscribe and current modulation back to the central office. The earpiece is a high impedance (2,000 ohm) device that responds to voltage variations. The carbon microphone element 220 to 200 ohms modulates the talk battery current. |
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AM electromagnetic waves: 20 KHz modulation frequency on an astronomically-lowcarrier frequency
Radium wrote:
.... You miss the simple point, the dc is the carrier ... instead of dc, you could put a 1 hz signal on the line and modulate it with your voice, indeed, you can put a 30 hz signal on the line and modulate it with your voice--if you can tollerate a bad 30 hz hum! But, who knows, perhaps you are tone deaf to the 30 hz hum and would like it ... JS |
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AM electromagnetic waves: 20 KHz modulation frequency on anastronomically-low carrier frequency
On 6/30/07 11:25 PM, in article , "John Smith
I" wrote: Radium wrote: ... You miss the simple point, the dc is the carrier ... instead of dc, you could put a 1 hz signal on the line and modulate it with your voice, indeed, you can put a 30 hz signal on the line and modulate it with your voice--if you can tollerate a bad 30 hz hum! But, who knows, perhaps you are tone deaf to the 30 hz hum and would like it ... JS But you miss the basic point...... The topic was Amplitude Modulation. |
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AM electromagnetic waves: 20 KHz modulation frequency on an astronomically-lowcarrier frequency
Don Bowey wrote:
[pure crap!] "In the mid-1870s, a form of amplitude modulation—initially called "undulatory currents"—was the first method to successfully produce quality audio over telephone lines. Beginning with Reginald Fessenden's audio demonstrations in the early 1900s, it was also the original method used for audio radio transmissions, and remains in use by some forms of radio communication—"AM" is often used to refer to the mediumwave broadcast band (see AM radio)." Taken from this URL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplitude_modulation And, please read the WHOLE PAGE before making a larger idiot of yourself ... JS |
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