Barrett wrote:
The jumper is on in the unit and all the batteries are in there correct
position. The link for the MFJ-259Z on the W&S site is
http://www.wsplc.com/cgi-bin/ss00000...=14&ACTION.y=3

They won't even charge in my Smart charger. They just shut down the charging
as if there no good, but they are supposed to be brand new. Just borrowed
some 1800mA and these are charging fine in the MFJ-259, so it looks like the
problem is with the batteries. I have never experienced this with these type
of batteries before only NiCad's.
=======================================
Suggest you allow a say 100 mA current to flow through the individual
(new)batteries , monitoring the voltage across the battery.
As soon as the voltage is 1.2 V you can further charge in your automatic
charger.
When fully charged , discharge either in your automatic charger or
manually (with a 12 to 15 Ohms resistor) ,down to
1Volt and recharge. The (new) batteries should then work well.

New NiMH batteries often need a few manually imposed charging
/discharging cycles before working properly.

Good Luck

Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH

Can some one give me an idea on how long these 2600mA should last in the
MFJ-259 when left on without turning off?

Thanks


"Highland Ham" wrote in message
...
Barrett wrote:
The jumper is on in the unit and all the batteries are in there correct
position. The link for the MFJ-259Z on the W&S site is
http://www.wsplc.com/cgi-bin/ss00000...=14&ACTION.y=3

They won't even charge in my Smart charger. They just shut down the
charging as if there no good, but they are supposed to be brand new. Just
borrowed some 1800mA and these are charging fine in the MFJ-259, so it
looks like the problem is with the batteries. I have never experienced
this with these type of batteries before only NiCad's.
=======================================
Suggest you allow a say 100 mA current to flow through the individual
(new)batteries , monitoring the voltage across the battery.
As soon as the voltage is 1.2 V you can further charge in your automatic
charger.
When fully charged , discharge either in your automatic charger or
manually (with a 12 to 15 Ohms resistor) ,down to
1Volt and recharge. The (new) batteries should then work well.

New NiMH batteries often need a few manually imposed charging
/discharging cycles before working properly.

Good Luck

Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH

In article ,
Barrett wrote:

Can some one give me an idea on how long these 2600mA should last in the
MFJ-259 when left on without turning off?

One manufacturer's data writeup (for the Twicell batteries) says "The
amount of electricity which a [NiMH] battery loses through
self-discharge at 40 degrees C in one day following full charge is
approximately 5% of the rated capacity."

If it lost this same percentage of its total charge every day, the
battery would be completely self-discharged in about three weeks.

If it lost 5% of its current charge level per day, it'd be down to 50%
charge in a couple of weeks, maybe to 25% at the end of a month.

Even if the self-discharge rate is as low as 2% per day, you'd find
them with little charge remaining after a couple of months.

The high-capacity, fast-self-discharging NiMH cells seem to be a
reasonable choice for certain application - those in which you expect
to drain 'em within a few days of use, and will need to recharge them
regularly in any case. Photo-flash applications, or listen-and-talk
applications in a portable radio, or that sort of thing.

They're a poor choice for occasional-use or standby applications.

If you're using your MFJ-259 for several hours per week, standard 2600
NiMH cells may be a good choice. If you use the analyzer only
occasionally, I think you'll be happier with either NiCd, or
low-self-discharge 2000/2100 NiMH.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

Barrett wrote:
I don't think that my MFJ-259Z is charging properly. Its new and it has been
on charge for over 6 hours and all the batteries are still reading 0 Volts.
I'm using the PSU that came with it. It works fine from the PSU but doesn't
seem to be charging. The switch inside for charging is turned on.. Can some

I'm not familiar with that analyzer but the websites indicate it uses AA
cells--presumably rechargable ones have been supplied with your 259Z. One
thing to check is that the cells are correctly inserted (sorry but it
happens often!) and that they're not protected by little plastic covers on
the positive terminals. Rechargable batteries that come with new
equipment often have tiny bits of plastic that have to be removed by the
end user. This isn't always mentioned in manuals.

If it's brand new and has never worked with the batteries alone, you might
have a manufacturing defect--they're not unknown in MFJ gear, not that I'm
knocking MFJ. You'd want to take a quick look at the charge/no-charge
switch, the bypass (if there is one) on the connector for the PSU on the
radio, etc.--simple things easily visible. You might also try charging
the AA cells in a standard charger, and seeing if the 259Z then works
properly with the batteries--if that doesn't work, it might be the cells
you have and not the analyzer itself.

HTH! 73 de AC4RD

_______________________________________________
Ken Kuzenski AC4RD atsign mindspring dotsign com
_______________________________________________
All disclaimers apply, see? www.duke.edu/~kuzen001

I have had the batteries on charge in the MFJ-259Z for over a day now. The
jumper inside the unit is on for charging. The batteries were at 12.6V when
put on charge and are still 12.6V. The PSU is working fine. Because I can
run the unit off the PSU that came with it.

Any ideas on what can be wrong with it now?

Thanks


wrote in message
...
Barrett wrote:
I don't think that my MFJ-259Z is charging properly. Its new and it has
been
on charge for over 6 hours and all the batteries are still reading 0
Volts.
I'm using the PSU that came with it. It works fine from the PSU but
doesn't
seem to be charging. The switch inside for charging is turned on.. Can
some

I'm not familiar with that analyzer but the websites indicate it uses AA
cells--presumably rechargable ones have been supplied with your 259Z. One
thing to check is that the cells are correctly inserted (sorry but it
happens often!) and that they're not protected by little plastic covers on
the positive terminals. Rechargable batteries that come with new
equipment often have tiny bits of plastic that have to be removed by the
end user. This isn't always mentioned in manuals.

If it's brand new and has never worked with the batteries alone, you might
have a manufacturing defect--they're not unknown in MFJ gear, not that I'm
knocking MFJ. You'd want to take a quick look at the charge/no-charge
switch, the bypass (if there is one) on the connector for the PSU on the
radio, etc.--simple things easily visible. You might also try charging
the AA cells in a standard charger, and seeing if the 259Z then works
properly with the batteries--if that doesn't work, it might be the cells
you have and not the analyzer itself.

HTH! 73 de AC4RD

_______________________________________________
Ken Kuzenski AC4RD atsign mindspring dotsign com
_______________________________________________
All disclaimers apply, see? www.duke.edu/~kuzen001

"Barrett" wrote in message
...
I have had the batteries on charge in the MFJ-259Z for over a day now. The
jumper inside the unit is on for charging. The batteries were at 12.6V when
put on charge and are still 12.6V. The PSU is working fine. Because I can
run the unit off the PSU that came with it.

Any ideas on what can be wrong with it now?

Thanks


wrote in message
...
Barrett wrote:
I don't think that my MFJ-259Z is charging properly. Its new and it has
been
on charge for over 6 hours and all the batteries are still reading 0
Volts.
I'm using the PSU that came with it. It works fine from the PSU but
doesn't
seem to be charging. The switch inside for charging is turned on.. Can
some

I'm not familiar with that analyzer but the websites indicate it uses AA
cells--presumably rechargable ones have been supplied with your 259Z.
One
thing to check is that the cells are correctly inserted (sorry but it
happens often!) and that they're not protected by little plastic covers
on
the positive terminals. Rechargable batteries that come with new
equipment often have tiny bits of plastic that have to be removed by the
end user. This isn't always mentioned in manuals.

If it's brand new and has never worked with the batteries alone, you
might
have a manufacturing defect--they're not unknown in MFJ gear, not that
I'm
knocking MFJ. You'd want to take a quick look at the charge/no-charge
switch, the bypass (if there is one) on the connector for the PSU on the
radio, etc.--simple things easily visible. You might also try charging
the AA cells in a standard charger, and seeing if the 259Z then works
properly with the batteries--if that doesn't work, it might be the cells
you have and not the analyzer itself.

HTH! 73 de AC4RD

_______________________________________________
Ken Kuzenski AC4RD atsign mindspring dotsign com
_______________________________________________
All disclaimers apply, see? www.duke.edu/~kuzen001

1] You might want to contact MFJ and see if they can supply you with a
schematic of the unit. Usually with minimum knowledge and a Volt/Ohm/Meter,
you should be able to check some internal voltages, and or check the
operations of transistors/voltage regulators, and or internal fuses.
2] If you don't want to open up the box, contact MFJ and see how much
they want to repair the unit.. They seem to be reasonable folks..

I might send it back, its only 9 days old and I did inform them by email
within the 7 days from purchase about the trouble with the batteries. If it
was an easy fix I might do it myself. But I'm unsure to what is causing it.


"Howard W3CQH" wrote in message
...

"Barrett" wrote in message
...
I have had the batteries on charge in the MFJ-259Z for over a day now. The
jumper inside the unit is on for charging. The batteries were at 12.6V
when put on charge and are still 12.6V. The PSU is working fine. Because I
can run the unit off the PSU that came with it.

Any ideas on what can be wrong with it now?

Thanks


wrote in message
...
Barrett wrote:
I don't think that my MFJ-259Z is charging properly. Its new and it has
been
on charge for over 6 hours and all the batteries are still reading 0
Volts.
I'm using the PSU that came with it. It works fine from the PSU but
doesn't
seem to be charging. The switch inside for charging is turned on.. Can
some

I'm not familiar with that analyzer but the websites indicate it uses AA
cells--presumably rechargable ones have been supplied with your 259Z.
One
thing to check is that the cells are correctly inserted (sorry but it
happens often!) and that they're not protected by little plastic covers
on
the positive terminals. Rechargable batteries that come with new
equipment often have tiny bits of plastic that have to be removed by the
end user. This isn't always mentioned in manuals.

If it's brand new and has never worked with the batteries alone, you
might
have a manufacturing defect--they're not unknown in MFJ gear, not that
I'm
knocking MFJ. You'd want to take a quick look at the charge/no-charge
switch, the bypass (if there is one) on the connector for the PSU on the
radio, etc.--simple things easily visible. You might also try charging
the AA cells in a standard charger, and seeing if the 259Z then works
properly with the batteries--if that doesn't work, it might be the cells
you have and not the analyzer itself.

HTH! 73 de AC4RD

_______________________________________________
Ken Kuzenski AC4RD atsign mindspring dotsign com
_______________________________________________
All disclaimers apply, see? www.duke.edu/~kuzen001

1] You might want to contact MFJ and see if they can supply you with a
schematic of the unit. Usually with minimum knowledge and a
Volt/Ohm/Meter, you should be able to check some internal voltages, and or
check the operations of transistors/voltage regulators, and or internal
fuses.
2] If you don't want to open up the box, contact MFJ and see how much
they want to repair the unit.. They seem to be reasonable folks..

I have had the batteries on charge in the MFJ-259Z for over a day now. The
jumper inside the unit is on for charging. The batteries were at 12.6V when
put on charge and are still 12.6V. The PSU is working fine. Because I can
run the unit off the PSU that came with it.

Any ideas on what can be wrong with it now?

It certainly sounds to me as if the charging circuit is not working,
or is not working effectively.

12.6 volts is 1.26 volts per cell, which is what I'd expect to see in
the no-load or light-load case of a NiMH with a fractional charge
(maybe half-charged?). The cell voltage will rise, as charging
continues, to as high as 1.4 volts or more (depending on charging
current).

It could be that the charging circuit simply isn't working at all.

It's also possible that the charging circuit is only delivering (by
error or design) just enough of a trickle charge to prevent an
exernally-charged NiMH battery from self-discharging. If the
battery is only receiving 10-20 mA, this would be the case - the
battery will essentially *never* recharge itself completely under
these conditions.

There's a real tradeoff with NiMH cells. Any simple charger which is
capable of recharging them in a reasonable amount of time (say, a day
or less) should *not* be left hooked up to them indefinitely - it'll
overcharge them and significantly shorten their life. Conversely, a
simple charger which *can* be left hooked up for days at a time, will
not recharge a dead battery rapidly enough to be useful.

Charger circuits *can* switch between two charging modes (fast and
maintenance) but it requires quite a bit more complexity.

So... what to do now. My suggestions:

[1] First, measure the voltage across each individual cell in the
battery. If they're all around 1.25 or so, then the cells are
probably OK, and the problem is in the charging.

If you find that most of the cells have a higher voltage, and one
is very low, then that one cell is junk and should be recycled and
replaced.

[2] Get a digital multimeter with small alligator-clip leads. Set it
on its "DC current" scale, remove the charging jumper in the MFJ,
and connect the two leads of the multimeter to the two pins that
had been jumpered together (stick a bit of paper between them to
prevent the multimeter leads from shorting). Plug the MFJ into
its wallwart (with the power switch turned off) and read the
current on your DMM. This will tell you how much current is
flowing into the battery through the charging circuit (assuming
that it's a simple linear charger and not a pulse-charger).

If the current consistently reads zero, then the charger is not
working at all.

If it's charging at a rate of below 50 mA, then it's just a
maintenance trickle-charger... sufficient to keep charged
batteries alive in standby mode, but insufficient to recharge them
in any reasonable amount of time. You'll need to do the major
charging using an external charger.

If it's charging at 100-200 mA, then it'll take a day or more to
fully recharge.

If it's charging at over 200 mA, then it'll recharge effectively
in under a day, but should *not* be left hooked up indefinitely...
it'll overcharge the batteries and shorten their service life.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

Hi Dave



I checked the voltages in all the cells and they were all even voltages.
The batteries should be ok.



I checked the current on the two pins like you said and there was no
reading.

I checked the voltage on the two pins. No voltage on the outside pin and 5
volts on the middle pin.

I checked the voltage coming from the charger and its 18 volts.

I checked the voltage from the + side to the - side of the battery pack with
the charger on and got the 12.6 volts.

I checked the voltage from the + side to the - side of the battery pack with
the charger off and unplugged and got 12.6 volts.

I checked the voltage from the battery pack with the charger on and using
the case as the ground. It was 17.9 volts.



The charger says output voltage 12VDC 300mA 3.6VA.



Hope you can point me in the right direction. Do you know what sort of
voltages I should expect when it's charging properly?



Many thanks



Barrett






"Dave Platt" wrote in message
...
I have had the batteries on charge in the MFJ-259Z for over a day now.
The
jumper inside the unit is on for charging. The batteries were at 12.6V
when
put on charge and are still 12.6V. The PSU is working fine. Because I can
run the unit off the PSU that came with it.

Any ideas on what can be wrong with it now?

It certainly sounds to me as if the charging circuit is not working,
or is not working effectively.

12.6 volts is 1.26 volts per cell, which is what I'd expect to see in
the no-load or light-load case of a NiMH with a fractional charge
(maybe half-charged?). The cell voltage will rise, as charging
continues, to as high as 1.4 volts or more (depending on charging
current).

It could be that the charging circuit simply isn't working at all.

It's also possible that the charging circuit is only delivering (by
error or design) just enough of a trickle charge to prevent an
exernally-charged NiMH battery from self-discharging. If the
battery is only receiving 10-20 mA, this would be the case - the
battery will essentially *never* recharge itself completely under
these conditions.

There's a real tradeoff with NiMH cells. Any simple charger which is
capable of recharging them in a reasonable amount of time (say, a day
or less) should *not* be left hooked up to them indefinitely - it'll
overcharge them and significantly shorten their life. Conversely, a
simple charger which *can* be left hooked up for days at a time, will
not recharge a dead battery rapidly enough to be useful.

Charger circuits *can* switch between two charging modes (fast and
maintenance) but it requires quite a bit more complexity.

So... what to do now. My suggestions:

[1] First, measure the voltage across each individual cell in the
battery. If they're all around 1.25 or so, then the cells are
probably OK, and the problem is in the charging.

If you find that most of the cells have a higher voltage, and one
is very low, then that one cell is junk and should be recycled and
replaced.

[2] Get a digital multimeter with small alligator-clip leads. Set it
on its "DC current" scale, remove the charging jumper in the MFJ,
and connect the two leads of the multimeter to the two pins that
had been jumpered together (stick a bit of paper between them to
prevent the multimeter leads from shorting). Plug the MFJ into
its wallwart (with the power switch turned off) and read the
current on your DMM. This will tell you how much current is
flowing into the battery through the charging circuit (assuming
that it's a simple linear charger and not a pulse-charger).

If the current consistently reads zero, then the charger is not
working at all.

If it's charging at a rate of below 50 mA, then it's just a
maintenance trickle-charger... sufficient to keep charged
batteries alive in standby mode, but insufficient to recharge them
in any reasonable amount of time. You'll need to do the major
charging using an external charger.

If it's charging at 100-200 mA, then it'll take a day or more to
fully recharge.

If it's charging at over 200 mA, then it'll recharge effectively
in under a day, but should *not* be left hooked up indefinitely...
it'll overcharge the batteries and shorten their service life.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

If you are really having this much trouble troubleshooting the unit and it
is still under warranty - for a couple of bucks in postage you should send
it back to MFJ for the warranty repairs... If you continue to try and get
into the unit you may end up VOIDing the warranty and then it will cost you
a BUNCH of bucks to get it repaired!

"Barrett" wrote in message
...
Hi Dave



I checked the voltages in all the cells and they were all even voltages.
The batteries should be ok.



I checked the current on the two pins like you said and there was no
reading.

I checked the voltage on the two pins. No voltage on the outside pin and 5
volts on the middle pin.

I checked the voltage coming from the charger and its 18 volts.

I checked the voltage from the + side to the - side of the battery pack
with the charger on and got the 12.6 volts.

I checked the voltage from the + side to the - side of the battery pack
with the charger off and unplugged and got 12.6 volts.

I checked the voltage from the battery pack with the charger on and using
the case as the ground. It was 17.9 volts.



The charger says output voltage 12VDC 300mA 3.6VA.



Hope you can point me in the right direction. Do you know what sort of
voltages I should expect when it's charging properly?



Many thanks



Barrett






"Dave Platt" wrote in message
...
I have had the batteries on charge in the MFJ-259Z for over a day now.
The
jumper inside the unit is on for charging. The batteries were at 12.6V
when
put on charge and are still 12.6V. The PSU is working fine. Because I can
run the unit off the PSU that came with it.

Any ideas on what can be wrong with it now?

It certainly sounds to me as if the charging circuit is not working,
or is not working effectively.

12.6 volts is 1.26 volts per cell, which is what I'd expect to see in
the no-load or light-load case of a NiMH with a fractional charge
(maybe half-charged?). The cell voltage will rise, as charging
continues, to as high as 1.4 volts or more (depending on charging
current).

It could be that the charging circuit simply isn't working at all.

It's also possible that the charging circuit is only delivering (by
error or design) just enough of a trickle charge to prevent an
exernally-charged NiMH battery from self-discharging. If the
battery is only receiving 10-20 mA, this would be the case - the
battery will essentially *never* recharge itself completely under
these conditions.

There's a real tradeoff with NiMH cells. Any simple charger which is
capable of recharging them in a reasonable amount of time (say, a day
or less) should *not* be left hooked up to them indefinitely - it'll
overcharge them and significantly shorten their life. Conversely, a
simple charger which *can* be left hooked up for days at a time, will
not recharge a dead battery rapidly enough to be useful.

Charger circuits *can* switch between two charging modes (fast and
maintenance) but it requires quite a bit more complexity.

So... what to do now. My suggestions:

[1] First, measure the voltage across each individual cell in the
battery. If they're all around 1.25 or so, then the cells are
probably OK, and the problem is in the charging.

If you find that most of the cells have a higher voltage, and one
is very low, then that one cell is junk and should be recycled and
replaced.

[2] Get a digital multimeter with small alligator-clip leads. Set it
on its "DC current" scale, remove the charging jumper in the MFJ,
and connect the two leads of the multimeter to the two pins that
had been jumpered together (stick a bit of paper between them to
prevent the multimeter leads from shorting). Plug the MFJ into
its wallwart (with the power switch turned off) and read the
current on your DMM. This will tell you how much current is
flowing into the battery through the charging circuit (assuming
that it's a simple linear charger and not a pulse-charger).

If the current consistently reads zero, then the charger is not
working at all.

If it's charging at a rate of below 50 mA, then it's just a
maintenance trickle-charger... sufficient to keep charged
batteries alive in standby mode, but insufficient to recharge them
in any reasonable amount of time. You'll need to do the major
charging using an external charger.

If it's charging at 100-200 mA, then it'll take a day or more to
fully recharge.

If it's charging at over 200 mA, then it'll recharge effectively
in under a day, but should *not* be left hooked up indefinitely...
it'll overcharge the batteries and shorten their service life.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!