"Penang" wrote in message
...
My background isn't on antenna making, in fact, my training is in
Chemical engineering, not physics.

But lately I've spent a lot of times consuming materials I dig from
the Net about antennas, in the effect to learn how to make an
excellent (effective?) wifi antenna.

Specifically, my interest is in the "broadcast" type of antenna ...
trying to find a way to "extend" the range of a typical wifi
basestation using antennas alone (maybe with the help of MIMO
antennas), without "range repeaters" or whatnots.

My brain is now fully clogged, and I'm having difficulties digesting
all the stuffs that I've gotten.

So I desperately need you help.

Is there a place (a forum, a website, a tutorial, and whatnots) where
one can learn about antennas, without having one's brain clogged up,
like mine right now?

What's your suggestion / opinion on how to construct an excellent
(pair) of MIMO antenna for wifi (802.11 b/g/n) ?

Thank you all !

Often gain type antennas already come with the unit. The problem is in
putting the antenna where it will do some good. The other problem is in
losing signal getting it from the AP to the antenna. You can easily lose
any gain from a good antenna in the cable and connectors. On the other hand
it is worth that just to be able to put the antenna where it will do some
good. If it is any consolation, Cat5/6 is cheaper and faster than the AP
itself. Still it is a pain to have to climb and do acrobatics just to push
a reset button. There are excellent base station type antennas, hardware
and feedline that can certainly optimize a signal for blocks away, but they
are expensive and must be properly planned and executed to avoid wasting it
all. There are all kinds of network issues to consider too.

This isn't amateur radio so it really isn't on topic. It sounds to me like
a business opportunity.
http://infotech.awardspace.com/

On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 01:25:44 GMT, "JB" wrote:

If it is any consolation, Cat5/6 is cheaper and faster than the AP
itself.

Sorta. I guess you haven't bought any CAT6 lately. I just blew $170
for a 1000ft roll of CAT6 at Home Depot. Add in, wall plates, RJ45
jacks, and jumpers, and I can probably buy 4 or 5 wireless routers for
the price.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:


Sorta. I guess you haven't bought any CAT6 lately. I just blew $170
for a 1000ft roll of CAT6 at Home Depot. Add in, wall plates, RJ45
jacks, and jumpers, and I can probably buy 4 or 5 wireless routers for
the price.

Cat vs. WiFi?

Isn't that kinda like comparing a hardwired phone with a cell? One I
can do without, the other I can't ...

Regards,
JS

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Jeff Liebermann wrote:


Sorta. I guess you haven't bought any CAT6 lately. I just blew $170
for a 1000ft roll of CAT6 at Home Depot. Add in, wall plates, RJ45
jacks, and jumpers, and I can probably buy 4 or 5 wireless routers for
the price.

Cat vs. WiFi?

Isn't that kinda like comparing a hardwired phone with a cell? One I
can do without, the other I can't ...

Regards,
JS

You both missed the point. What are you going to do with 4 or 5 wireless
routers stacked on top of a 8 port switch? I was talking about losses of
cat6 vs. expensive infrastructure. I hope nobody was thinking that 1000' of
hardline and connectors would be cheaper.

Really though, Jeff stated earlier that there is more to it than radios and
antennas. We had a community WISP out here. About as much headache as
running a cable company. If you are setting up for an IT show or if money
is no object, no problem. If you are trying to make a little money, I hope
there is a lot of dissatisfaction with the other ISPs in town. The one here
got bought out by major players and everyone went away.

What does he mean by community? A small town? A campus? A truck stop?
Unless it's a truck stop or food court, you will probably need a
constellation of AP's and all the network and coverage optimizing and
diagnostics to go with that.

Looking for advise here will probably give you a bigger headache What you
need is 4 or 5 bright stars to build out and run it for you.

JB wrote:

...
You both missed the point. What are you going to do with 4 or 5 wireless
routers stacked on top of a 8 port switch? I was talking about losses of
cat6 vs. expensive infrastructure. I hope nobody was thinking that 1000' of
hardline and connectors would be cheaper.
...

No, I don't think so. THE POINT is that the guy asked about particular
antennas. NOT for my advise on his plans, his love life, his Taro Card
reading, etc.

Now we are clear out here where you are advising him what is possible,
what equipment he should use, etc. What might be impossible. What well
be too expensive. That he might find he may have to make adjustments to
his original plan/design, etc.

I simply assume he can either handle it, or find these things out on the
way and have some interesting fun in solving the problems ...

I just don't see the same shoebox you do ...

Regards,
JS

On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 19:44:50 -0700, John Smith
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Sorta. I guess you haven't bought any CAT6 lately. I just blew $170
for a 1000ft roll of CAT6 at Home Depot. Add in, wall plates, RJ45
jacks, and jumpers, and I can probably buy 4 or 5 wireless routers for
the price.

Cat vs. WiFi?

Sure. We had a neighborhood LAN/WLAN for many years. It started out
as a neighborhood bootleg satellite TV and CATV distribution system in
the 1970's. Over the years, conduit, fiber, RG-6/u, CAT5, and
wireless were added. It does some TV, internet, VoIP, bungler alarm,
intercom, neighborhood watch, surveillance, and gaming[1]. I built
most of it myself. At it's height, we had about 15 houses wired into
the system (all sharing one DSL line). Health issues and general
laziness are limiting my ability and time to do installs, repairs,
troubleshooting, and cable chewing squirrel abatement. The price and
availability of DSL and cable had made it easy for individual owners
to get their own services. Due to the dense Redwood, Oak, and Douglas
Fir forest, wireless was rather problematic between some houses. So,
I resorted to horizontal drilling under the road, conduit, and lots of
scrap CAT5. There was no problem running 900ft between switched ports
as long as I kept the line protocol to 10baseT HDX.

The roll of CAT6 I previously mentioned is for rewiring a clients
office for all gigabit ethernet. Pricewise, is still cheaper than
fiber at gigabit rates.

Isn't that kinda like comparing a hardwired phone with a cell? One I
can do without, the other I can't ...

Maybe. The CTIA notes that 15% or more of cell phone use the cell
phone as their sole means of voice communications. (That's wrong
because they only consider if they do NOT also have a conventional
POTS line and ignore VoIP over broadband). Still, it's a growing
number that have elected to consider cellular as essential. Like all
analogies, the wired versus wi-fi will fall apart if you dig deep
enough. Still, there are sufficient similarities in function where
they can be considered alternatives.

I have a customer with a mostly wireless office. Everything from
desktop to 4 line phones are wireless. That's because the ancient
Victorian nightmare of a building they're in has no place to run CAT5
except the OUTSIDE of the building:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/SCZ%20Victorian%20wiring%20mess.html
The cost of running surface conduit either inside or outside was
prohibitive, so they went wireless.

I'm drifting off topic here, so let me get back to the original
"community" network. Running copper or fiber is an option if the
community is small enough, the local authorities are cooperative, and
density is high enough to avoid long runs. It's been done in small
towns and planned communities many times. It's far more cost
effective than wireless, mostly because wireless does not scale very
well. The same high density systems that work so well with wired
networking, cause interference and capacity issues with wireless. On
the negative side, copper has become so valuable, that running it in
3rd world countries has become a futile exercise. It will be stolen
as soon as it's installed. That's one reason that wireless phone
penetration in 3rd world countries tends to be very high, the
alternatives just don't work.

There's lots more to wired versus wireless, but this is not the time
or place to discuss them. If the "community" is huge, and copper is
not an alternative, then use Wi-Max, not Wi-Fi. If the community is
like my miniature neighborhood LAN/WLAN, use whatever his handy
including Wi-Fi.


[1] Just before its demise, my biggest problem was a bumper crop of
12-14 year olds, turning the system into a big chat room and gaming
network.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

"JB" wrote in
:

Still it is a pain to have to climb and do acrobatics just
to push a reset button.

If the unit has high dollar choices of hard ware use a DRAC 5
net card, our Dell servers use them, When you Telnet into them
and command a shutdown, it does not argue, it shuts down even
at the cost of head crash!!!! DRAC 5 is a robotic remote
control to the backend of whatever unit you are using it on.
It's like pulling the plug out of the wall, game over, the
unit automatically Restarts unless you send a shutdown - stay
down command. DRAC 5 cards are just as cheap as NIC cards and
install the same way. See if the WiFi transmitter had a DRAC 5
option when buying, Our high end cysco stuff comes with them.


--
Quote "Get SSL VPN services now, KEEP Government OUT of your
business... "

moronsbegone wrote:
If the unit has high dollar choices of hard ware use a DRAC 5
net card, our Dell servers use them, When you Telnet into them
and command a shutdown, it does not argue, it shuts down even
at the cost of head crash!!!!

In what universe does a hard shutdown cause a head crash?

The reason you don't want a hard shutdown (other than spyware
having to flush everything it has gathered out the network
interface) is to make sure everything gets written to disk.

Painful to lose the last few seconds worth of disk updates,
perhaps, but far from a head crash.

And, yes, remote management consoles are useful.