On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 11:02:48 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

I should feel guilty for encouraging this off topic discussion,
complete with topic drift, but I don't.

Hi Jeff,

I count it as adding value - even if it is for political education,
sewer management (I didn't mean for that juxtaposition, but Karma
seeks its own balance), and the parade of roses systems control. That
photo was a blast. Did you actually have to cross your feet as part
of the control heuristics?

At the end of Stiglitz's discussion on the cost of the war ($3 to $5
Trillion at a minimum), someone asked plaintively "Don't you have
something positive to offer us?" He responded "We will have a new
president soon."

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 11:11:13 -0700, Richard Clark
wrote:

...and the parade of roses systems control. That
photo was a blast. Did you actually have to cross your feet as part
of the control heuristics?


I'm slightly bow legged so crossing my feet is a more natural resting
position. The resting position was very important at the start of the
Rose Parade. The floats, horses, cars, etc all start getting
organized at about 4AM. The parade starts at 8AM. The floats are
never totally completed by New Year's day, so frantic last minute work
at the starting point was normal. At this point, none of those
involved have had more than one or two hours sleep, so a functional
sleeping position is a basic requirement. I installed padding on top
of the control panel for my feet.

I think I only managed to get about 30 minutes of sleep before the
unexpected happened. In 1968, we were behind an equestrian unit.
After standing in essentially the same spot for about 3 hours, the
horses deposited quite a pile of droppings on the pavement. There was
a false start somewhat before 8AM. All the floats and horses lurched
forward a few feet, placing our float directly over the pile. Besides
the smell, the real worry was what would happen if the leaky hydraulic
coupling mixed hot hydraulic fluid with horse dung. I was ready with
a large fire extinguisher. Fortunately, nothing happened but we all
nearly vomited from the stench.

If you look a the photo:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/jeffl/slides/RoseFloat01.html
you'll notice a large hinge point directly above my sleeping form.
Part of the animation was a young boy, sleeping in bed, who raises up
and scratches his eyes, when he sees the toys at the foot of the bed
come alive. The kid was huge, thus the giant hinge. It worked fairly
well throughout the parade. However, when drove the float back to
Pomona for disassembly, it was discovered that all the 5/8"(???) bolts
holding the boy to the hinge frame had halfway sheared through.

This is the current animation system:
http://cpprosefloat.org/site/page.php?23
In 1968, it was several partly insane students, flipping switches and
toggling valves by hand. Cal Poly tended to win the animation prizes.

To bring things back to ham radio antennas, we had a Motorola
Breakie-Backie "portable" radio in the float on 2 meters. Tubes,
vibrators, wet cells, and muscle. It sorta worked, but the chicken
wire covering the float made a very effective shield. The antenna
ended up hanging under the float as we didn't want it visible on top.
Someone saw the "loose wire" and clipped it off just before the start
of the parade. I made a replacement out of some baling wire. It
worked, but about half way through the parade, the vibrator power
supply quit. Oh well.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 11:11:13 -0700, Richard Clark
wrote:

...and the parade of roses systems control. That
photo was a blast. Did you actually have to cross your feet as part
of the control heuristics?


To bring things back to ham radio antennas, we had a Motorola
Breakie-Backie "portable" radio in the float on 2 meters.

It's a challenge to put antennas on floats and meet the TORC
requirements for only vegetable matter to be exposed. We got a special
dispensation for our 23cm ATV from the JPL float.

http://www.luxfamily.com/events/rose2005/roseatv.htm

On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 13:22:33 -0700, Jim Lux
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
To bring things back to ham radio antennas, we had a Motorola
Breakie-Backie "portable" radio in the float on 2 meters.

It's a challenge to put antennas on floats and meet the TORC
requirements for only vegetable matter to be exposed. We got a special
dispensation for our 23cm ATV from the JPL float.

http://www.luxfamily.com/events/rose2005/roseatv.htm

Things sure have changed in 40 years.

Nicely done float. How tall is it? We had stability problems with
some of the floats. The parade route was fine, but entering Victory
Park at the end was tricky. One year, some of the floats almost
tipped over.

Also, my fault tolerant memory has failed me once again. The snoozing
photo of me is from of the 1970 float:
http://cpprosefloat.org/site/plugins/autogallery/autogallery.php?show=7.Past%20Floats%2F350.1970.jp g
The float consisted of 3 islands, connected with big long throw
hydraulic rams. The float could be contracted to about 35 ft or
extended to 59.99999 ft. The fun part was turning the Orange Grove to
Colorado corner in front of the cameras, while simultaneously
extending the float. Some officials didn't know which way the float
was going to go and ran for cover.

The sheared hinge bolts were from the 1971 float:
http://cpprosefloat.org/site/plugins/autogallery/autogallery.php?show=7.Past%20Floats%2F340.1971.jp g
It also features an elephant toy, with targeting controls for a small
water pump and nozzle in the trunk. That was banned the following
year.



--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:38:46 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 13:22:33 -0700, Jim Lux
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
To bring things back to ham radio antennas, we had a Motorola
Breakie-Backie "portable" radio in the float on 2 meters.

It's a challenge to put antennas on floats and meet the TORC
requirements for only vegetable matter to be exposed. We got a special
dispensation for our 23cm ATV from the JPL float.

http://www.luxfamily.com/events/rose2005/roseatv.htm

Things sure have changed in 40 years.

Nicely done float. How tall is it? We had stability problems with
some of the floats. The parade route was fine, but entering Victory
Park at the end was tricky. One year, some of the floats almost
tipped over.

Also, my fault tolerant memory has failed me once again. The snoozing
photo of me is from of the 1970 float:
http://cpprosefloat.org/site/plugins/autogallery/autogallery.php?show=7.Past%20Floats%2F350.1970.jp g
The float consisted of 3 islands, connected with big long throw
hydraulic rams. The float could be contracted to about 35 ft or
extended to 59.99999 ft. The fun part was turning the Orange Grove to
Colorado corner in front of the cameras, while simultaneously
extending the float. Some officials didn't know which way the float
was going to go and ran for cover.

The sheared hinge bolts were from the 1971 float:
http://cpprosefloat.org/site/plugins/autogallery/autogallery.php?show=7.Past%20Floats%2F340.1971.jp g
It also features an elephant toy, with targeting controls for a small
water pump and nozzle in the trunk. That was banned the following
year.

70 & 71? Maybe you met Dave Steinfeld of TORRA . I worked with him
for some years back in the day (80's).

On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 20:12:00 -0700, JosephKK
wrote:

70 & 71? Maybe you met Dave Steinfeld of TORRA . I worked with him
for some years back in the day (80's).

Nope. I don't recall the name. I only associated with radicals,
leftists, protesters, anarchists, dissidents, draft dodgers, and a few
engineers. If he was anything resembling a normal student, I probably
didn't meet him. Also, I don't think that TORRA existed in 1971 and
befo
http://www.torra.us/id4.html
There were very few active hams involved in construction of the floats
at Cal Poly Pomona. I think there were only 2 or 3 electrical
engineering students involved. At the time, the design and
construction was dominated by Agricultural Business Mgmt students. It
was easy to tell the difference. Engineers wore cowboy boots and ABM
students wore suits, string ties, and carried brief a case.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

JosephKK wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:38:46 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 13:22:33 -0700, Jim Lux
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
To bring things back to ham radio antennas, we had a Motorola
Breakie-Backie "portable" radio in the float on 2 meters.
It's a challenge to put antennas on floats and meet the TORC
requirements for only vegetable matter to be exposed. We got a special
dispensation for our 23cm ATV from the JPL float.

http://www.luxfamily.com/events/rose2005/roseatv.htm
Things sure have changed in 40 years.

Nicely done float. How tall is it? We had stability problems with
some of the floats. The parade route was fine, but entering Victory
Park at the end was tricky. One year, some of the floats almost
tipped over.

Don't recall how tall it was, but it laid back down to get under the
overpass at the end of the route. It was built by professional float
builders (Phoenix)
http://floatcam.caltech.edu/ has a link to video clips during
construction, etc.


70 & 71? Maybe you met Dave Steinfeld of TORRA . I worked with him
for some years back in the day (80's).

Would that be WA6ZVE? He works in the RF Cal lab here at JPL.

On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 11:07:22 -0700, Jim Lux
wrote:

Don't recall how tall it was, but it laid back down to get under the
overpass at the end of the route. It was built by professional float
builders (Phoenix)
http://floatcam.caltech.edu/ has a link to video clips during
construction, etc.

My Real Media player is having its usual bad day. I'll look at it
later.

I forgot about the overpass. That would be a problem. One year,
someone built a float over a large fork lift. The plan was to lower
it at the overpass and again at the park entrance (due to overhanging
wires). When the forks were lowered, the skin of the float was
shredded. Someone used baling wire to tie together the ends of the
chicken wire skin at the junction. Oops.

Cal Poly traded space in the Rose Palace with D.E. Bent and Sons. I
think he retired in about 1978. We supplied him with surplus labor
(mostly for decorating and handling flowers) in trade for floor space
and "borrowing" tools. It was a very professional operation.

One of the funniest things was watching Disney Animation attempt to
build their first animated float. Everyone expected big things from
them due to their experience at Disneyland. As expected, the float
had more moving parts than stationary. Just one problem; Disney ran
on pneumatics instead of hydraulics.

The centerpiece of their design was a rather large globe with a
satellite spinning around it. The globe was bisected at the equator
with a cantilever rod supporting the satellite. It, and other moving
parts, sorta worked. Then, they added the flowers and watered them.
That added lots of weight, which they hadn't expected. The support
rod bent and had to be reinforced. Instead of smoothly orbiting the
planet, the satellite lurched and jerked its way around the globe. The
pneumatics could not overcome the added friction. The pressure just
built up and up until the satellite suddenly lurched free. This was
repeated every minute or so. I vaguely recall that it finally died
about half way through the parade when some hose or fitting finally
broke from the concussions. By then, all the flowers had been
catapulted off anyway.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 11:07:22 -0700, Jim Lux
wrote:

JosephKK wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:38:46 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 13:22:33 -0700, Jim Lux
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
To bring things back to ham radio antennas, we had a Motorola
Breakie-Backie "portable" radio in the float on 2 meters.
It's a challenge to put antennas on floats and meet the TORC
requirements for only vegetable matter to be exposed. We got a special
dispensation for our 23cm ATV from the JPL float.

http://www.luxfamily.com/events/rose2005/roseatv.htm
Things sure have changed in 40 years.

Nicely done float. How tall is it? We had stability problems with
some of the floats. The parade route was fine, but entering Victory
Park at the end was tricky. One year, some of the floats almost
tipped over.

Don't recall how tall it was, but it laid back down to get under the
overpass at the end of the route. It was built by professional float
builders (Phoenix)
http://floatcam.caltech.edu/ has a link to video clips during
construction, etc.


70 & 71? Maybe you met Dave Steinfeld of TORRA . I worked with him
for some years back in the day (80's).

Would that be WA6ZVE? He works in the RF Cal lab here at JPL.


That call sign sounds right. The home / station address matches the
lookup to my address book. That is a good enough match for me.