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Old January 6th 09, 11:00 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Default Installing a Ladder Line to the house

I've read some Q&A about ladder line and I didn't see exactly my
question. I want to run 450 ohm ladder line into the house. my tuner
has a built-in balun for a ladder line so I think I can just run the
ladder line all the way to the tuner.

How do I physically attach the ladder line to the house? All I can
think of is to nail it right through the spacers onto the side of the
house. But I don't know if the nails will interfere with transmission
at all.

A second that comes to mind when considering this setup: if I run the
ladder line all the way to the tuner, how do I ground it?


Thanks,
kb1odg

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Old January 6th 09, 11:30 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Default Installing a Ladder Line to the house

James barrett wrote:
How do I physically attach the ladder line to the house?


I use electric fence insulators.

A second that comes to mind when considering this setup: if I run the
ladder line all the way to the tuner, how do I ground it?


No RF ground required.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com
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Old January 7th 09, 05:44 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Default Installing a Ladder Line to the house

Some have tried using 1-ft lengths (or so) of PVC at the corners of the
house.
Cut a slot in one end of the PVC, put a nail-hole or two near the other
end - secure the line in the slot of the pvc using nylon ty-raps.

"James barrett" wrote in message
...
I've read some Q&A about ladder line and I didn't see exactly my
question. I want to run 450 ohm ladder line into the house. my tuner
has a built-in balun for a ladder line so I think I can just run the
ladder line all the way to the tuner.

How do I physically attach the ladder line to the house? All I can
think of is to nail it right through the spacers onto the side of the
house. But I don't know if the nails will interfere with transmission
at all.

A second that comes to mind when considering this setup: if I run the
ladder line all the way to the tuner, how do I ground it?


Thanks,
kb1odg



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Old January 7th 09, 06:33 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Default Installing a Ladder Line to the house

On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 14:00:43 -0800 (PST), James barrett
wrote:

How do I physically attach the ladder line to the house?


http://www.fishock.com/energizedFencing/insulators.htm
http://www.fencesafe.com/insulators.html
http://www.redhillgeneralstore.com/efwoodins.htm
etc. Search for "electric fence insulators".

If you want to be really creative, you could just build a spacer from
ABS or PVC pipe, using a flange mount at one end, and a hole drilled
in the pipe to support the wire. Maybe a plastic "T" at the end to
support both wires on one insulator. Be creative.

No ground required for a balanced system. However, methinks it's a
good idea to ground the radio and the antenna tuner case.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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Old January 7th 09, 02:22 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Default Installing a Ladder Line to the house

James barrett wrote:
I've read some Q&A about ladder line and I didn't see exactly my
question. I want to run 450 ohm ladder line into the house. my tuner
has a built-in balun for a ladder line so I think I can just run the
ladder line all the way to the tuner.

How do I physically attach the ladder line to the house? All I can
think of is to nail it right through the spacers onto the side of the
house. But I don't know if the nails will interfere with transmission
at all.

A second that comes to mind when considering this setup: if I run the
ladder line all the way to the tuner, how do I ground it?


Thanks,
kb1odg


Use coaxial cable to get through the wall, then a BalUn outside to
transition to the balanced transmission line.


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Old January 7th 09, 03:22 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Default Installing a Ladder Line to the house


"Dave" wrote in message
...
James barrett wrote:
I've read some Q&A about ladder line and I didn't see exactly my
question. I want to run 450 ohm ladder line into the house. my tuner
has a built-in balun for a ladder line so I think I can just run the
ladder line all the way to the tuner.

How do I physically attach the ladder line to the house? All I can
think of is to nail it right through the spacers onto the side of the
house. But I don't know if the nails will interfere with transmission
at all.

A second that comes to mind when considering this setup: if I run the
ladder line all the way to the tuner, how do I ground it?


Thanks,
kb1odg


Use coaxial cable to get through the wall, then a BalUn outside to
transition to the balanced transmission line.


--------

I'm running a Van Gordon All Bander dipole. It utilizes 450 twinlead from
the dipole, thru the barrier into the house and connects to the 4:1 balun in
my MFJ-989C manual roller inductor tuner.

Instead of drilling a hole through the cinder blocks of my basement wall
(finished), I made up a barrier insert from a piece of 2x4" lumber to fit
under the lip of my window. I drilled two holes through the 2x4" lumber
spaced at the same distance as the conductors in the twinlead. I then used a
router bit to connect the dots. A very thin router bit. In fact, I think it
was the bit from my cut in any direction saw that I bought several years ago
and can't think of the name of it at the moment. They were all the rage on
TV. It rotates like a drill bit or router bit. I hope you can follow me.

I made the cut in the barrier board for the twinlead tight enough that I
haven't even bothered to silicone up the gap, it is that tight.

I haven't had any problems with it at all. No fires, no arcing, no scorching
the wood. I think it would take a lot more power to do that than my 1kw
Ameritron AL-80A can produce.

Is it a PITA (Pain In The Ass)? Yes. But it gets me any band that I want,
including six meters (in fine fashion too). If you go the coax route, you'll
end up with a G5RV that won't take more than 200 watts without frying the
twinlead, or you'll end up with a trapped doublet that only gives you a few
kilohertz operating bandwidth on most bands. Chances are that some bands
will be unusable unless you have a good tuner (no, not an autotuner - they
don't have enough "swing").

Running a piece of coax into twinlead with an antenna with high SWR can
generate high enough voltages to punch a hole through the coax' dielectric.
After that hole has been made, the voltage needed to jump that arc from then
on will be much lower, meaning that your signal will sound crappy and you
may have problems with your rig.

I put up with the 450 ohm twinlead all of the way into the house because it
provides me with the most bands in the smallest space. It will also handle a
kilowatt without protest.

Oh, I haven't seen a 4:1 balun that is worth what it costs to ship to your
door that sells for less than $139. I've gone through three brands lately.
Brands that were supposed to be (and used to be) top shelf. Makes me wish I
had held on to the good one that I bought years ago. That'll learn me.

Good luck.


Ed, N2ECW


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Old January 7th 09, 03:23 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Default Installing a Ladder Line to the house

James,
Since it's been a while since ladder line has been in common use,
there aren't many 'standard' ways of doing things in common usage
anymore. So, as long as you keep a few things in mind, your
imagination will supply you with any number of 'ways' to do things.
Sharp bends, being close to metal things, and 'deforming' the feed
line's shape too much are things to avoid. After that, it's more or
less whatever you can think of, sort of. Lot's of 'wiggle' room in
that, your millage may vary, etc.
Good luck.
- 'Doc
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Old January 7th 09, 03:25 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Default Installing a Ladder Line to the house

In message , Dave
writes
James barrett wrote:
I've read some Q&A about ladder line and I didn't see exactly my
question. I want to run 450 ohm ladder line into the house. my tuner
has a built-in balun for a ladder line so I think I can just run the
ladder line all the way to the tuner.
How do I physically attach the ladder line to the house? All I can
think of is to nail it right through the spacers onto the side of the
house. But I don't know if the nails will interfere with transmission
at all.
A second that comes to mind when considering this setup: if I run
the
ladder line all the way to the tuner, how do I ground it?
Thanks,
kb1odg


Use coaxial cable to get through the wall, then a BalUn outside to
transition to the balanced transmission line.


Baluns don't like 'funny' impedances. Better to use 75 ohm twin through
the wall. If you don't have any lying around, maybe a bit of domestic
twin power cable/cord could be pressed into service.
--
Ian
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Old January 7th 09, 04:36 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Posts: 219
Default Installing a Ladder Line to the house

On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:22:19 +0000, Dave wrote:

James barrett wrote:
I've read some Q&A about ladder line and I didn't see exactly my
question. I want to run 450 ohm ladder line into the house. my tuner
has a built-in balun for a ladder line so I think I can just run the
ladder line all the way to the tuner.

How do I physically attach the ladder line to the house? All I can
think of is to nail it right through the spacers onto the side of the
house. But I don't know if the nails will interfere with transmission
at all.

A second that comes to mind when considering this setup: if I run the
ladder line all the way to the tuner, how do I ground it?


Thanks,
kb1odg


Use coaxial cable to get through the wall, then a BalUn outside to
transition to the balanced transmission line.


I've had good luck bringing 450-ohm line through the window using
MFJ's 4602 window feed through board. It has ceramic feed through
insulators for the balanced line, more feedthrough's for a random
wire, three coax lines and a ground wire. Even includes weather
stripping and a burgler bar.

Bob
k5qwg
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Old January 7th 09, 05:30 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Default Installing a Ladder Line to the house

On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 14:00:43 -0800 (PST), James barrett
wrote:

I've read some Q&A about ladder line and I didn't see exactly my
question. I want to run 450 ohm ladder line into the house. my tuner
has a built-in balun for a ladder line so I think I can just run the
ladder line all the way to the tuner.

How do I physically attach the ladder line to the house? All I can
think of is to nail it right through the spacers onto the side of the
house. But I don't know if the nails will interfere with transmission
at all.

A second that comes to mind when considering this setup: if I run the
ladder line all the way to the tuner, how do I ground it?


Thanks,
kb1odg

James,
You don't mention whether your antenna is resonant or not.
Nor do you mention where your feed line enters the house.

I use 600 ohm ladder line to feed my 220 foot dipole from Antenna
tuner to Ten Tec L Tuner located near a basement window.

There are a number of problems that I have solved since my antenna
is between two trees about 300 feet apart.

I support it using Dacron rope at both ends. One end is fixed.
the other goes through a pulley to a 40 lb sealed box of cat litter.
This helps to prevent the destruction of the antenna by wind-
whipped trees.


The antenna may be overkill: #10 copperweld and W7FY feed line.
However, 40 lbs does not keep the antenna from flexing +-6-8 feet..
You need spring action of some sort to prevent the feed line from
being ripped loose from the house or point to which it is first
attached.

I use plain string/twine to make an attachment from house to a
spreader in the line. The string is adjusted so that the line is
straight to the point where the string is attached to the house entry
point and so that the line above where the string is attached is
"draped" providing the ability for the antenna to go up or down 6-8
feet from its normal position. Under NE ice conditions it does drop
that much and in high winds it can go up the 8 feet.

I bring the line into the house through a basement window in
which a Plexiglas insert has feed through insulators for external
ground and the feed line. The string limits tension and flex on those
insulators.

Feed line from the insulators goes to the tuner when operating
and to ground when not.

There are feed line lightning arrestors that use spark plugs as
grounding elements. I have not used these as I am worried
that standing wave voltage nodes that I have on the line might trigger
the spark plugs when running high power since I use the antenna
from 160-10 on CW and SSB.

If you have questions about my arrangement, I'll be happy to try
to answer them.

Ed, N5EI


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