Jim Kelley wrote:
I'm surprised they ever ... discussed systems that have
standing waves, and nothing else.

I'm not surprised because you have obviously never cracked
open their books - tsk, tsk. Reference page 288 of "Optics",
by Hecht, 4th edition, 7.1.4 Standing Waves.

What's amazing is that you continue to insist on attributing
interference with supernatural powers - "redistribution"
being one, ...

Obviously, you have never read the following FSU web page:

micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/scienceopticsu/interference/waveinteractions/index.html

"... when two waves of equal amplitude and wavelength that are
180-degrees ... out of phase with each other meet, they are not
actually annihilated, ... All of the photon energy present in
these waves must somehow be recovered or *redistributed* in a
new direction, according to the law of energy conservation ...
Instead, upon meeting, the photons are *redistributed* to regions
that permit constructive interference, so the effect should be
considered as a *redistribution* of light waves and photon energy
rather than the spontaneous construction or destruction of light."

Exactly what is it about the *redistribution* of energy that you
don't understand?

... please describe if you would
how one would go about actually measuring standing wave current delay -
whatever that is.

I cannot improve on Hecht's words in "Optics":

"This is the equation for a STANDING or STATIONARY WAVE, as
opposed to a traveling wave. Its profile does not move through
space; ... It doesn't rotate at all, and the resultant wave
it represents doesn't progress through space - its a standing
wave."

In other words, "standing wave current delay" does not exist.
Only an ignorant fool would think that it could exist given
the equation for a standing wave. Yet this is the current
that w7el and w8ji tried to use to measure the delay through
a 75m mobile loading coil.

The suggestion sounds a little nutty to me, to be honest. Is it
possible that you might be mistaken about any of this?

I could be mistaken about your ulterior motive but it is hard
for me to accept the fact that you guys are just dumb as a stump.
I would rather think that you, w7el, and w8ji have a modicum
of intelligence and are merely engaged in a conspiracy to
hoodwink the uninitiated. Your motive for such is unclear.
--
73, Cecil, IEEE, OOTC, http://www.w5dxp.com

On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 20:35:00 -0500, Cecil Moore
engaged in a conspiracy

Hmm, Trilateral commission?
Freemasonry?
Area 51?
Symbionese Liberation Army?
Hussein's "Oil for Food?"
Illuminati?
Ulster Loyalist Central Coordination Committee?
Bilderberg Group?
the 4th Reich?
AUM Shinrikyo?
Animal Liberation Front?
Leon Czolgosz?
Gulf of Tonkin incident?
Hollow earth theory?
New World Order?
Rosicrucians?
Servants of the Paraclete?
Watergate?
The Nazi-American Money Plot?
There is a point in a loading coil antenna where the phase shift is
instantaneous? [and yet it moves.....]

Richard Clark wrote:
On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 20:35:00 -0500, Cecil Moore
engaged in a conspiracy

Hmm, Trilateral commission?

It was tongue-in-cheek humor, Richard.
--
73, Cecil, IEEE, OOTC, http://www.w5dxp.com

On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 05:55:34 -0500, Cecil Moore
wrote:

Richard Clark wrote:
On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 20:35:00 -0500, Cecil Moore
engaged in a conspiracy

Hmm, Trilateral commission?

It was tongue-in-cheek humor, Richard.

Ah! That is what you thought I was thinking you were thinking I
thought and you were wrong twice, right once and on the third hand was
a draw.

On Apr 14, 5:35*pm, Cecil Moore wrote:

I cannot improve on Hecht's words in "Optics":

You could still improve on your understanding of their meaning.

In other words, "standing wave current delay" does not exist.
Only an ignorant fool would think that it could exist given
the equation for a standing wave.

And yet you keep posting your calculations and claiming to have made
measurements. I was trying to be polite, but yes. Evidently we're in
agreement now?

ac6xg

Jim Kelley wrote:
And yet you keep posting your calculations and claiming to have made
measurements.

As have w7el and w8ji. All their measurements proved
is that standing wave current doesn't change phase
relative to the feedpoint current phase. They did
not measure the delay through a coil. They measured
the phase shift through the coil using a current that
doesn't change phase relative to the two measurement
points. The same thing happens with a wire.

To measure the actual delay through a coil, traveling
wave current must be used. I am apparently the only
one who ran that actual experiment. I guarantee if
anyone performs that experiment in a valid manner,
they will see similar results to mine. Here's the
setup that I used to measure a ~25 nS delay through
a 75m bugcatcher coil at 4 MHz.

http://www.w5dxp.com/coiltest.GIF

You should be able to achieve that setup in your
physics lab.
--
73, Cecil, IEEE, OOTC, http://www.w5dxp.com

On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 11:38:37 -0500, Cecil Moore
wrote:

setup that I used to measure a ~25 nS delay through
a 75m bugcatcher coil at 4 MHz.

http://www.w5dxp.com/coiltest.GIF

This is just a cartoon with the caption:
"Magik happens here."

Cecil Moore wrote:
Jim Kelley wrote:
And yet you keep posting your calculations and claiming to have made
measurements.

As have w7el and w8ji. All their measurements proved
is that standing wave current doesn't change phase
relative to the feedpoint current phase. They did
not measure the delay through a coil. They measured
the phase shift through the coil using a current that
doesn't change phase relative to the two measurement
points. The same thing happens with a wire.

To measure the actual delay through a coil, traveling
wave current must be used. I am apparently the only
one who ran that actual experiment. I guarantee if
anyone performs that experiment in a valid manner,
they will see similar results to mine. Here's the
setup that I used to measure a ~25 nS delay through
a 75m bugcatcher coil at 4 MHz.

http://www.w5dxp.com/coiltest.GIF

You should be able to achieve that setup in your
physics lab.

Did you figure out the Z0 of your coil using the Tesla coil
math, and then just assume there were no standing waves, or did
you prove the absence of standing waves through experiment?
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH

On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 10:08:21 -0700, "Tom Donaly"
wrote:

Cecil Moore wrote:
they will see similar results to mine.
Did you figure out the Z0 of your coil using the Tesla coil
math, and then just assume there were no standing waves, or did
you prove the absence of standing waves through experiment?

Hi Tom,

There is only the hint of a gejoken experiment. I notice nothing
other than a cartoon, and nothing in the way of instrumentation
described, much less the vaunted "results" (no doubt the final
metaphysical tabulation came from some alchemistry). Certainly no
antenna (nor dish reflector that matter). How it relates to a loaded
short monopole would probably provoke an essay as elaborate as the
coronation oratory for a pope.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Richard Clark wrote:
On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 10:08:21 -0700, "Tom Donaly"
wrote:

Cecil Moore wrote:
they will see similar results to mine.
Did you figure out the Z0 of your coil using the Tesla coil
math, and then just assume there were no standing waves, or did
you prove the absence of standing waves through experiment?

Hi Tom,

There is only the hint of a gejoken experiment. I notice nothing
other than a cartoon, and nothing in the way of instrumentation
described, much less the vaunted "results" (no doubt the final
metaphysical tabulation came from some alchemistry). Certainly no
antenna (nor dish reflector that matter). How it relates to a loaded
short monopole would probably provoke an essay as elaborate as the
coronation oratory for a pope.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Hi Richard,
Cecil has never been too effective when it comes to doing
experiments. When asked to do math, he's even more sunk. I'm surprised
he even managed to do a "gejoken" experiment.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH