Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 8/31/2010 8:41 AM, Art Unwin wrote:

...
So John we now get to the final portion that closes the loop with
respect to radiation. The method of winding the coil is similar to a
solenoid without the central plunger. Around a solenoid is a shield to
retain the external magnetic field. This very arrangement is exactly
that of a Faraday shield but with two openings top and bottom and the
Faraday shield has the unique property of separating electric,magnetic
and time varying current into separate parts such that it is in effect
both a transmitter and receiver where as lternating current can be
used to form a tank circuit or alternatively
separate the time varying current back to drive a receiver. So the
same as what is required for a Faraday shield is also required for a
radiater which is a bleed line between the outside of the shield to
ground to remove static from the system. If one puts the solenoid or
Faraday shield over a
reflsector then we have two patterns each on a separate axis but
superimposed upon each other where the center plume relates to
gravity.
The above in no way violates existing laws for electrical components
and in fact support those in existence made by the Masters. All the
above enfolded by reviewing existing laws and expanding
thbe Gaussian static laws into dynamic form as the leader in the
resulting trail. Remember a vertical antenna must be tipped with
respect to Earth to reflect two vectors so it attains equilibrium.
Regards
Art Unwin KB9MZ.....xg
then one has a directional antenna which has two

Did anyone ever mention, you are a very prolific and productive writer?
And, I mean that in a good way, I do.

Regards,
JS

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Aug 31, 11:04*am, John Smith wrote:
On 8/31/2010 8:41 AM, Art Unwin wrote:



...
So John we now get to the final portion that closes the loop with
respect to radiation. The method of winding the coil is similar to a
solenoid without the central plunger. Around a solenoid is a shield to
retain the external magnetic field. This very arrangement is exactly
that of a Faraday shield but with two openings top and bottom and the
Faraday shield has the unique property of separating electric,magnetic
and time varying current into separate parts such that it is in effect
both a transmitter and receiver where as lternating current can be
used to form a tank circuit or alternatively
separate the time varying current back to drive a receiver. So the
same as what is required for a Faraday shield is also required for a
radiater which is a bleed line between the outside of the shield to
ground to remove static from the system. If one puts the solenoid or
Faraday shield over a
reflsector then we have two patterns each on a separate axis but
superimposed upon each other where the center plume relates to
gravity.
The above in no way violates existing laws for electrical components
and in fact support those in existence made by the Masters. All the
above enfolded by reviewing existing laws and expanding
thbe Gaussian static laws into dynamic form as the leader in the
resulting trail. Remember a vertical antenna must be tipped with
respect to Earth to reflect two vectors so it attains equilibrium.
Regards
Art Unwin KB9MZ.....xg
then one has a directional antenna which has two

Did anyone ever mention, you are a very prolific and productive writer?
* And, I mean that in a good way, I do.

Regards,
JS

John We live in a World that is not of our making.
It is us who search for the release of energy from that around us so
we can live the life we live. We have used electricity to create light
we did not generate the initial supply. Same goes for oil gas and wind
which uses the same two vectors supplied to us. But these energy
supplies are not enough to sustain the future and science cannot
produce new energy only to understand what is around us so that we can
then make the most of it.
Yes we use magnetic power to move friction to conserve energy by
levitation and what goes with that knowledge is the solenoid that
really is a double acting single cylinder that converts knowledge of
what we know into energy. The windmill uses the two vectors of the
weather straight and rotational and we know what the energy does
there. Now we have a faulty electrical grid system that must be
replaced and ideally Ac current is best for that but for the losses.
Now I point to a way of bypassing those same losses, a new ladder to
climb. By the way if you decide to make the antenna put a 20db
anttennuator in the line first to avoid destruction of the front end.
When I first connected up to 10 meters it wasn't open but the meter
shot over S9 forcing me to shut down quickly. When experiments with
superconductors for antennas 20 db improvement was noticed so one has
to be careful. A MRI can project a personal object being worn by a
patient
out of his clothing and thru a substantial wall so tread carefully.
Remember a lightning strike is nothing more than the static energy of
a particle seeking a place on Earth that it can rest after losing its
resting space created by updraft and temperature change. We know the
energy is there
the trick is to harness it.
Regards
Art

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Aug 31, 11:41*am, Art Unwin wrote:
On Aug 31, 11:04*am, John Smith wrote:



On 8/31/2010 8:41 AM, Art Unwin wrote:

...
So John we now get to the final portion that closes the loop with
respect to radiation. The method of winding the coil is similar to a
solenoid without the central plunger. Around a solenoid is a shield to
retain the external magnetic field. This very arrangement is exactly
that of a Faraday shield but with two openings top and bottom and the
Faraday shield has the unique property of separating electric,magnetic
and time varying current into separate parts such that it is in effect
both a transmitter and receiver where as lternating current can be
used to form a tank circuit or alternatively
separate the time varying current back to drive a receiver. So the
same as what is required for a Faraday shield is also required for a
radiater which is a bleed line between the outside of the shield to
ground to remove static from the system. If one puts the solenoid or
Faraday shield over a
reflsector then we have two patterns each on a separate axis but
superimposed upon each other where the center plume relates to
gravity.
The above in no way violates existing laws for electrical components
and in fact support those in existence made by the Masters. All the
above enfolded by reviewing existing laws and expanding
thbe Gaussian static laws into dynamic form as the leader in the
resulting trail. Remember a vertical antenna must be tipped with
respect to Earth to reflect two vectors so it attains equilibrium.
Regards
Art Unwin KB9MZ.....xg
then one has a directional antenna which has two

Did anyone ever mention, you are a very prolific and productive writer?
* And, I mean that in a good way, I do.

Regards,
JS

John We live in *a World that is not of our making.
It is us who search for the release of energy from that around us so
we can live the life we live. We have used electricity to create light
we did not generate the initial supply. Same goes for oil gas and wind
which uses the same two vectors supplied to us. But these energy
supplies are not enough to sustain the future and science cannot
produce new energy only to understand what is around us so that we can
then make the most of it.
Yes we use magnetic power to move friction to conserve energy by
levitation and what goes with that knowledge is the solenoid that
really is a double acting single cylinder that converts knowledge of
what we know into energy. The windmill uses the two vectors of the
weather straight and rotational and we know what the energy does
there. Now we have a faulty electrical grid system that must be
replaced and ideally Ac current is best for that but for the losses.
Now I point to a way of bypassing those same losses, a new ladder to
climb. By the way if you decide to make the antenna put a 20db
anttennuator in the line first to avoid destruction of the front end.
When I first connected up to 10 meters it wasn't open but the meter
shot over S9 forcing me to shut down quickly. When experiments with
superconductors for antennas 20 db improvement was noticed so one has
to be careful. A MRI can project a personal object being worn by a
patient
out of his clothing and thru a substantial wall so tread carefully.
Remember a lightning strike is nothing more than the static energy of
a particle seeking a place on Earth that it can rest after losing its
resting space created by updraft and temperature change. We know the
energy is there
the trick is to harness it.
Regards
Art

John
If we follow the pied piper on a well trodden trail then education is
plagerism at its worst.
Being like Jack with the bean stalk means curiousity leads you on a
path that is not well trodden but produces surprises and new vistas
never seen by man!
Heh I like how that sounds, very profound.

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 8/31/2010 9:59 AM, Art Unwin wrote:

...
John
If we follow the pied piper on a well trodden trail then education is
plagerism at its worst.
Being like Jack with the bean stalk means curiousity leads you on a
path that is not well trodden but produces surprises and new vistas
never seen by man!
Heh I like how that sounds, very profound.

Art,

You play to the choir.

Everyone who has found something new, has first had to surmount and
defeat ridicule and/or worse, before all claim him to be a genius. But,
doing such, surmounting/defeating ridicule, does not guarantee finding
something new.

There are many more men sitting in "nut houses", and "searching," than
there are discoveries to be made ... a wise man would tread the grounds
cautiously, as I have mentioned ... LOL

Regards,
JS

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Aug 31, 11:03*am, John Smith wrote:
On 8/31/2010 8:03 AM, Art Unwin wrote:

* ...

Regards
Art Unwin.....KB9MZ....xg

Art,

You waste your words on me. *I will only cop to a few things:

1) I believe the ether is real and it exists about us, in us, everywhere.
2) All our "real matter" was ripped from the ether and is just ether
existing in an altered state, "this all" is not "normal."
3) Although we can't "see" the ether (yet), we can make guesses from
its' apparent properties. *One important one, it is a superconductor.
EMF can, apparently, transverse it forever with no "loss" (some will
mention a "red shift", or "slowing", here.)
4) "Discovering" it will boost our economy, flood our markets with
uncountable new devices exploiting its' properties and raise mans'
scientific knowledge to unfathomable heights ...

Beyond that? *Who knows ... I think, at this time, your ramblings are
just as valid as any I could make, about it, the ether ... since yours
sounds so "crazy", I hesitate to go into such depths ... sorry ...
remember, "fools" (well, Einstein did) run where brave men fear to go ...

The "double helix", as it involves antennas, is only a trick to me.
And, use to coax certain actions/behaviors from an antenna. *It is
physical in existence and can affect antenna fields and other properties
... it is no more profound or magical than a gamma match, capacitive
hat, etc., sorry ... at this point, this is all I want to know.

Regards,
JS

John the question you raise with regard to the tank circuit is very
valid. But when a superconductor is used as a radiator removal of the
time varying current is consumed by losses
Let me propose the following, presently it is assumed that the super
conductor resistance goes to zero which embraces perpetual motion if
losses disappear. What if the current rose to the surface
like my antenna which is determined as the "Meissner effect". The
material is being bypassed
and replaced in the circuit by resistance traveling along the surface
which gives you the analogy of the long pendulum. One has to be wary
of embracing perpetual motion as in itself it destroys all we have
determined in physics.

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 8/31/2010 10:24 AM, Art Unwin wrote:

...
John the question you raise with regard to the tank circuit is very
valid. But when a superconductor is used as a radiator removal of the
time varying current is consumed by losses
Let me propose the following, presently it is assumed that the super
conductor resistance goes to zero which embraces perpetual motion if
losses disappear. What if the current rose to the surface
like my antenna which is determined as the "Meissner effect". The
material is being bypassed
and replaced in the circuit by resistance traveling along the surface
which gives you the analogy of the long pendulum. One has to be wary
of embracing perpetual motion as in itself it destroys all we have
determined in physics.

Art,

My buss travels another direction, I must leave you here ... good-day!

Regards,
JS

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Aug 31, 10:49*am, John Smith wrote:
Uh, huh, so that is what "... created man in Gods' image ..." means, the
double helix! *I'll be looking for one descending from Heaven soon!

Does God have DNA? If not, where did Jesus' Y DNA come from? If yes,
can God be killed?
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Aug 31, 11:41*am, Art Unwin wrote:
John We live in *a World that is not of our making.

Some of us exceptions seem to create our own reality. :)
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Aug 31, 5:24*pm, Art Unwin wrote:
On Aug 31, 11:03*am, John Smith wrote:



On 8/31/2010 8:03 AM, Art Unwin wrote:

* ...

Regards
Art Unwin.....KB9MZ....xg

Art,

You waste your words on me. *I will only cop to a few things:

1) I believe the ether is real and it exists about us, in us, everywhere.
2) All our "real matter" was ripped from the ether and is just ether
existing in an altered state, "this all" is not "normal."
3) Although we can't "see" the ether (yet), we can make guesses from
its' apparent properties. *One important one, it is a superconductor.
EMF can, apparently, transverse it forever with no "loss" (some will
mention a "red shift", or "slowing", here.)
4) "Discovering" it will boost our economy, flood our markets with
uncountable new devices exploiting its' properties and raise mans'
scientific knowledge to unfathomable heights ...

Beyond that? *Who knows ... I think, at this time, your ramblings are
just as valid as any I could make, about it, the ether ... since yours
sounds so "crazy", I hesitate to go into such depths ... sorry ...
remember, "fools" (well, Einstein did) run where brave men fear to go ....

The "double helix", as it involves antennas, is only a trick to me.
And, use to coax certain actions/behaviors from an antenna. *It is
physical in existence and can affect antenna fields and other properties
... it is no more profound or magical than a gamma match, capacitive
hat, etc., sorry ... at this point, this is all I want to know.

Regards,
JS

John the question you raise with regard to the tank circuit is very
valid. But when a superconductor is used as a radiator removal of the
time varying current is consumed by losses
Let me propose the following, presently it is assumed that the super
conductor resistance goes to zero which embraces perpetual motion if
losses disappear. What if the current rose to the surface
like my antenna which is determined as the "Meissner effect". The
material is being bypassed
and replaced in the circuit by resistance traveling along the surface
which gives you the analogy of the long pendulum. One has to be wary
of embracing perpetual motion as in itself it destroys all we have
determined in physics.

boy, i'm sorry i've been too busy to read this whole thread, sounds
like some great stuff... keep up the laughs, maybe by this weekend
i'll be able to catch up and enjoy it!

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

Cecil Moore wrote:
On Aug 31, 10:49 am, John Smith wrote:
Uh, huh, so that is what "... created man in Gods' image ..." means, the
double helix! I'll be looking for one descending from Heaven soon!

Does God have DNA? If not, where did Jesus' Y DNA come from? If yes,
can God be killed?

Can God make a burrito so hot that he can't eat it?

- Mike -

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

tom wrote:
On 8/30/2010 11:39 AM, Michael Coslo wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote:
On Aug 28, 3:26 pm, Art Unwin wrote:
Whoa!You are talking apples and oranges.

Of course, but apples and oranges are both particles. The old masters
were correct about the aether consisting of particles - they were just
wrong about the nature of the particles.

If someone hits you in the head with a frozen apple or a frozen orange
in the dark on a winter night, it is difficult to tell the difference.
Quantum physics has turned on the light.


You people are all barking up the wrong tree. Phlogiston theory is where
it is at. Everything since then is nothing but gobbldygook. Including
that Johnny come lately, Aether theory.

-73 de Mike N3LI -

Are you sure? I heard it was Orgone Energy. It has cool antenna-like
thingies that gather the Energy, too!

Careful, with blasphemy like that Cthlulu is a gonna getchya! 8^)

- Mike -

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 8/31/2010 3:54 PM, Cecil Moore wrote:

...
Does God have DNA? If not, where did Jesus' Y DNA come from? If yes,
can God be killed?
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Sorry, missed this earlier, must have hit, "mark newsgroup as read" a
bit prematurely ...

Well, just guessing, I'd say, it came from the "immaculate conception",
and Mary contributed ... but hey, mankinds DNA came form God ... I find
it a much better question to ask, "Is God a "true God" or an alien, or
alien race?"; And, "Would I be able to tell the difference if I ran
into either?" And then, there is the question, "Where did
God/alien-race come from?"

It ain't easy being human ...

Regards,
JS

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Sep 1, 10:28*am, John Smith wrote:
It ain't easy being human ...

Yep, conceptually knowing that one is going to die was so hard on our
ancestors that they had to invent the concept of an immortal soul with
an after-life, which is denied to our primate cousins who share 98% of
our DNA but don't know that they are going to die. My take is that it
is better to have lived and died (loved and lost) than never to have
lived (loved) at all.

Reminds me of the song, "Midnight Choir", by the Gatlin Brothers:

Will they have Mogen David in Heaven?
Dear Lord, we'd all like to know,
Will they have Mogen Davin in Heaven, sweet Jesus?
If they don't, who the hell wants to go?
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 9/1/2010 12:05 PM, Cecil Moore wrote:

...
Yep, conceptually knowing that one is going to die was so hard on our
ancestors that they had to invent the concept of an immortal soul with
an after-life, which is denied to our primate cousins who share 98% of
our DNA but don't know that they are going to die. My take is that it
is better to have lived and died (loved and lost) than never to have
lived (loved) at all.

Reminds me of the song, "Midnight Choir", by the Gatlin Brothers:

Will they have Mogen David in Heaven?
Dear Lord, we'd all like to know,
Will they have Mogen Davin in Heaven, sweet Jesus?
If they don't, who the hell wants to go?
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Cecil,

As you have presented this argument in the past, it cannot either be
proven, nor dis-proven--and must be considered.

If it were not for the fact that life is the sole "thing" which
possesses such unique qualities as to behave as something from a
conscious mind, something requiring more than nature to create it,
requiring more than accident to have achieved its' present state, I'd
have to give what you present much more weight. We must agree that
"things" look different to us, at least on this one subject.

As I stated, in slight different words, it is H*LL to be human ...

Regards,
JS

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 9/1/2010 9:32 AM, Michael Coslo wrote:
tom wrote:
On 8/30/2010 11:39 AM, Michael Coslo wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote:
On Aug 28, 3:26 pm, Art Unwin wrote:
Whoa!You are talking apples and oranges.

Of course, but apples and oranges are both particles. The old masters
were correct about the aether consisting of particles - they were just
wrong about the nature of the particles.

If someone hits you in the head with a frozen apple or a frozen orange
in the dark on a winter night, it is difficult to tell the difference.
Quantum physics has turned on the light.


You people are all barking up the wrong tree. Phlogiston theory is where
it is at. Everything since then is nothing but gobbldygook. Including
that Johnny come lately, Aether theory.

-73 de Mike N3LI -

Are you sure? I heard it was Orgone Energy. It has cool antenna-like
thingies that gather the Energy, too!

Careful, with blasphemy like that Cthlulu is a gonna getchya! 8^)

- Mike -

Well, that's not a problem anymore. My dog killed him a couple months
ago. It was an accident. And even if it wasn't, after you've seen your
dog kill Cthulhu what is there left to fear?

tom
K0TAR

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

tom wrote:
On 9/1/2010 9:32 AM, Michael Coslo wrote:
tom wrote:
On 8/30/2010 11:39 AM, Michael Coslo wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote:
On Aug 28, 3:26 pm, Art Unwin wrote:
Whoa!You are talking apples and oranges.

Of course, but apples and oranges are both particles. The old masters
were correct about the aether consisting of particles - they were just
wrong about the nature of the particles.

If someone hits you in the head with a frozen apple or a frozen orange
in the dark on a winter night, it is difficult to tell the difference.
Quantum physics has turned on the light.


You people are all barking up the wrong tree. Phlogiston theory is
where
it is at. Everything since then is nothing but gobbldygook. Including
that Johnny come lately, Aether theory.

-73 de Mike N3LI -

Are you sure? I heard it was Orgone Energy. It has cool antenna-like
thingies that gather the Energy, too!

Careful, with blasphemy like that Cthlulu is a gonna getchya! 8^)

- Mike -

Well, that's not a problem anymore. My dog killed him a couple months
ago. It was an accident. And even if it wasn't, after you've seen your
dog kill Cthulhu what is there left to fear?

Your dog is da man, Tom!

- Mike -

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

John Smith wrote:

As you have presented this argument in the past, it cannot either be
proven, nor dis-proven--and must be considered.

Looking into the modern theories of Aether, your statement is correct.


The problem I have with the new Aether theories is that they take the
intellectually inexpensive leap from science to something else.

Quote from Wikipedia

"John Bell suggests the aether was wrongly rejected on purely
philosophical grounds: "what is unobservable does not exist""

By which this time, we might as well fold the tents and go back to the
easy answer, because if we take that tack we already have all the
answers for everything in the universe.

There's an old New Yorker cartoon with a couple of scientists standing
at a blackboard. The blackboard is covered with aequations, and right in
the middle of them in paren is "And something really awesome happens",
folled by more equations. That to me is Aether theory.

Might as well just say the answer is because God wants it that way.


- Mike -

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 9/3/2010 5:43 AM, Michael Coslo wrote:

...
There's an old New Yorker cartoon with a couple of scientists standing
at a blackboard. The blackboard is covered with aequations, and right in
the middle of them in paren is "And something really awesome happens",
folled by more equations. That to me is Aether theory.

Might as well just say the answer is because God wants it that way.


- Mike -

A "leap of faith" is required for a belief in God, the beginning of a
religion. So, to me, most atheists look "religious" to me. Their
religion is akin to having two men walking along in some far flung
universe when they stumble upon a man-made car. The appraise it, toy
with it, climb in and take off.

Now, down the road, one man says to the other, This appears as if it was
made by god," the other mans says, "That is ridiculous, this obviously
evolved from the elements around, and simply natural laws seen to its'
creation."

The whole universe, everything we see, I must wonder if "it always was."
Or, if a thinking mind constructed it all, even down to constructing
the laws for it to exist in, then the bizarre question of my own
existence enters this wonderment. It is easy to say that the ether was,
is and always will be--we are born into it.

Atheists just have an easy way of accepting things. They look at all of
this/these "MIND-BLOWING MIRACLES", and just say, "Oh yeah, it is
natural for all this to exist, there is no such thing as an "absolute
nothing", it is a law that if you universe sized space, it is filled
with matter in an altered state from the ether."

And, even worse than that, many can't/don't even recognize an ether for
the matter to have been created from and exist within. I do admit, my
mind finds such simple acceptance shocking ...

Regards,
JS

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Sep 3, 7:43*am, Michael Coslo wrote:
Might as well just say the answer is because God wants it that way.

Please note: As ignorance is slowly alleviated (over the centuries)
that option slowly disappears. Did you see this?

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/...-god-big-bang/
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Sep 3, 10:19*am, John Smith wrote:
*They look at all of this/these "MIND-BLOWING MIRACLES", ...

What if faith and belief in "MIND-BLOWING MIRACLES" is simply the
result of ignorance?
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 9/3/2010 10:44 AM, Cecil Moore wrote:

...
What if faith and belief in "MIND-BLOWING MIRACLES" is simply the
result of ignorance?
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Let me look around a bit ... hmm, well, ignorance seems to be bliss, and
in vogue! Public servants have even made it stylish! ROFLOL

Regards,
JS

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 9/3/2010 10:44 AM, Cecil Moore wrote:

...
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Seriously, though, the real question is "Where did the ether come from?"
(and, everything else which is composed of it.) You can see how far we
are from even being able to pose that question; We have to "discover
it" first. It is actually a little premature to be having intelligent
conversations, debates, discussions, etc. until there is something to
have them about!

Regards,
JS

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 9/3/2010 10:39 AM, Cecil Moore wrote:
On Sep 3, 7:43 am, Michael wrote:
Might as well just say the answer is because God wants it that way.

Please note: As ignorance is slowly alleviated (over the centuries)
that option slowly disappears. Did you see this?

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/...-god-big-bang/
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Excellent article. States my premise well, especially:

"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will
create itself from nothing," the professor said in his new book, in a
challenge to traditional religious beliefs.

I am aware of no such proofs of such a law; And, Hawkings only presents
another religion for us to join-- "The Order of the Law of Spontaneous
Creation."

Don't need more religions, need answers here. Don't need to convert
science to a "football game" where you choose your side and root for it
.... Hawkings proposes I make a leap of faith not even I can stomach ...

Regards,
JS

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Sep 3, 1:35*pm, John Smith wrote:
On 9/3/2010 10:39 AM, Cecil Moore wrote:

On Sep 3, 7:43 am, Michael *wrote:
Might as well just say the answer is because God wants it that way.

Please note: As ignorance is slowly alleviated (over the centuries)
that option slowly disappears. Did you see this?

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/...ng-picks-physi...
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Excellent article. *States my premise well, especially:

"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will
create itself from nothing," the professor said in his new book, in a
challenge to traditional religious beliefs.

I am aware of no such proofs of such a law; *And, Hawkings only presents
another religion for us to join-- "The Order of the Law of Spontaneous
Creation."

Don't need more religions, need answers here. *Don't need to convert
science to a "football game" where you choose your side and root for it
... Hawkings proposes I make a leap of faith not even I can stomach ...

Regards,
JS

John. Some are looking for an explanation for the existance of the
horizontal vector between two mediums. I do not know the originality
of that particular finding. I do know that a horizontal vector exists
in radio ie surface wave. Naturally some scientists would want to know
the other medium that allows this to happen and others have not
provided an explanation, so there is scientific reasoning on both
sides
Now Art came along and expanded Gaussian static law to make it dynamic
and equal to Maxwells equations on radiation. Thus was established the
presence of galactic particles resting on all diamagnetic surfaces on
earth, bearing in mind that diamagnetic material composes 99% as well
as the mantle of Earth of Earth ( Bismuth). Now that I have described
the other "medium" in question I will leave it to scientists to
determine and understand the questions arising from the double slit
experiment
which in these days of denial may take another 100 years. Remember,
the presence of particles is well established outside classical
physics and partical physics and now we can all agree that what can be
accellerated must consist of mass.
This thus dismisses the silliness of radiation being created by a wave
which is only an adjective decribing the movement of same in
abundance.
Like the "o" ring in the space vehicle scientists deride what
engineers accept as normal.

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Sep 3, 1:14*pm, John Smith wrote:
Seriously, though, the real question is "Where did the ether come from?"

Apparently, human intelligence and logic has not yet evolved to be
able to handle such questions although Ayn Rand came close decades
ago.

John, since you asked that question about what caused the ether, you
obviously must believe in the principle of "first cause", i.e.
everything has to have a cause. To avoid being a hypocrite, you must
also asked yourself, "What caused God?" - and what caused the cause of
God? - and what caused the cause of the cause of God? ... ad
infinitum.

I suspect Hawking is thinking: If everything has to have a cause, what
caused God? And if God doesn't need to have a cause, then why does the
cause of the Big Bang need to have a cause?
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Sep 3, 7:55*pm, Art Unwin wrote:
On Sep 3, 1:35*pm, John Smith wrote:



On 9/3/2010 10:39 AM, Cecil Moore wrote:

On Sep 3, 7:43 am, Michael *wrote:
Might as well just say the answer is because God wants it that way.

Please note: As ignorance is slowly alleviated (over the centuries)
that option slowly disappears. Did you see this?

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/...ng-picks-physi....
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Excellent article. *States my premise well, especially:

"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will
create itself from nothing," the professor said in his new book, in a
challenge to traditional religious beliefs.

I am aware of no such proofs of such a law; *And, Hawkings only presents
another religion for us to join-- "The Order of the Law of Spontaneous
Creation."

Don't need more religions, need answers here. *Don't need to convert
science to a "football game" where you choose your side and root for it
... Hawkings proposes I make a leap of faith not even I can stomach ...

Regards,
JS

John. Some are looking for an explanation for the existance of the
horizontal vector between two mediums. I do not know the originality
of that particular finding. I do know that a horizontal vector exists
in radio ie surface wave. Naturally some scientists would want to know
the other medium that allows this to happen and others have not
provided an explanation, so there is scientific reasoning on both
sides
Now Art came along and expanded Gaussian static law to make it dynamic
and equal to Maxwells equations on radiation. Thus was established the

writing in the 3rd person now art? you are the only one who didn't
understand that gauss's law was dynamic to start with. and has always
been a part of maxwell's equations.


presence of galactic particles resting on all diamagnetic surfaces on
earth, bearing in mind that diamagnetic material composes 99% as well

ah yes, the magical mystery levitating neutrinos that we are all
swimming in now.

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 9/3/2010 2:02 PM, Cecil Moore wrote:

...
John, since you asked that question about what caused the ether, you
obviously must believe in the principle of "first cause", i.e.
everything has to have a cause. To avoid being a hypocrite, you must
also asked yourself, "What caused God?" - and what caused the cause of
God? - and what caused the cause of the cause of God? ... ad
infinitum.

I suspect Hawking is thinking: If everything has to have a cause, what
caused God? And if God doesn't need to have a cause, then why does the
cause of the Big Bang need to have a cause?
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Yes, yes I do see cause and effect--in everything which is real ...
indeed, if someone comes up with an amazing story which leaves one out,
cause or effect, I am highly suspicious. And, which I am of God, which,
obviously, must exist!

As I have stated, I see nothing ordered, which is highly complex, unless
a thinking mind has created it. When someone says, "Well, here, here is
that "something" which breaks all the rules and it "just happened by
accident" or it "just is, has been and always will be", I think,
"They/he/she has to be kidding", even if Hawkings advances it. And,
yes, logic dictates there must be one thing which did get "the ball
rolling." That is God, whatever God is? If you want to make the ether
God, well, great, let's explore that possibility. However, all anyone
does is pose the "circular logic" which brings yours/mine/everyones mind
back to the beginning and you must ask, "What is the God." Or, "What is
the God event", etc.

It is un-win-able ... I suspect, better minds than Hawkings has pondered
it down though the millennias.

Regards,
JS

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Sep 3, 5:31*pm, John Smith wrote:
Yes, yes I do see cause and effect--in everything which is real ...

But do you appreciate the first cause contradiction? What caused the
first cause? e.g., what caused God?

I had an epiphany today. I realized why God is missing in action so
much of the time. The Bible says that 1000 years in the life of God is
like a day in the life of man. Man sleeps 1/3 of ever day. So God must
sleep for 333 years out of every 1000 years. Bad things happen during
the 333 years that God is asleep. Witness the present.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 9/3/2010 5:38 PM, Cecil Moore wrote:
On Sep 3, 5:31 pm, John wrote:
Yes, yes I do see cause and effect--in everything which is real ...

But do you appreciate the first cause contradiction? What caused the
first cause? e.g., what caused God?

I had an epiphany today. I realized why God is missing in action so
much of the time. The Bible says that 1000 years in the life of God is
like a day in the life of man. Man sleeps 1/3 of ever day. So God must
sleep for 333 years out of every 1000 years. Bad things happen during
the 333 years that God is asleep. Witness the present.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Well, first of all, I don't insist the bible be taken literally ... I do
accept, that parts, i.e., Genesis for example, which happened before man
could create written records. These stories had to be passed father to
son, mother to daughter, etc. until mans ability to record these stories
on non-verbal media came into existence. And, God sleeping? Naaa ...

Your first point points out why Hawkings seems to be "losing it," to me.
He thinks everything began with the big bang ... the beginning was
before then, it was when the ether came into existence, immediately
raising the question, "Who/what created the ether?" And, perhaps the
creator of the ether has a creator ... so, this is why I think we need
to know more about the ether ... like I suggested, why even begin
"making guesses" until you have enough data to make them intelligently?
And, I over-emphasize that, of course, we may guess, but we need to
remain honest and admit they are only ballpark guess on only the limited
knowledge we now possess. Unfortunately, as you see, a guess can
quickly become a religious order ...

So, to summarize, Hawkings is two steps ahead of creation (and God)
already, he ignores, "Who created the ether?" and "Who created the
ethers' creator?"

Regards,
JS

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Sep 3, 7:52*pm, John Smith wrote:
Your first point points out why Hawkings seems to be "losing it," to me.
* He thinks everything began with the big bang ... the beginning was
before then, it was when the ether came into existence, immediately
raising the question, "Who/what created the ether?"

"Before the Big Bang" is an oxymoron. Our present big bang originated
from a mass/energy plasma singularity. There was no ether in our
universe before the big bang. There was no space in our universe
before the big bang. There was no time in our universe before the big
bang. There were no particles or EM waves in our universe before the
big bang. Our present universe did not exist before the big bang.
Consider that our universe may have originated from a black hole that
exploded as it reached some critical mass/energy threshold and
detached itself from a parallel parent universe as it winked out of
existence in the parent universe. I use the geometric term,
"parallel", rather loosely simply to indicate that the multiple
universes never touch after the separation.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

"Cecil Moore" wrote
...
On Sep 3, 1:14 pm, John Smith wrote:
Seriously, though, the real question is "Where did the ether come from?"

Apparently, human intelligence and logic has not yet evolved to be
able to handle such questions although Ayn Rand came close decades
ago.

Always were the two ethers. Normal for the normal electric waves and the
"special" for the EM waves.

The normal is that by Ludwig Lorenz and the second by H. Lorentz.

The normal is the rare plazma (electrons, ions, atoms and dust).
The special is in many forms.

The normal is produced by the Sun. The special - I do not know.
S*

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 9/4/2010 5:34 AM, Cecil Moore wrote:


"Before the Big Bang" is an oxymoron. Our present big bang originated
from a mass/energy plasma singularity. There was no ether in our
universe before the big bang. There was no space in our universe
before the big bang.

Here we differ, I think the ether existed long before the "big bang"
(indeed, it could be the was, is and has always been in God.) Whatever
the big bang was, all it did was rip our observable matter, into an
altered state, from the fabric of the ether itself, and we look back and
record "the beginning" from that event.

There was no time in our universe before the big
bang. There were no particles or EM waves in our universe before the
big bang.

That statement is right on one account, there was not "time" in our
universe ... but then, there still isn't. There is only movement ... I
do believe the ether is composed of some type of particles, and I do
believe the ether accounts for the transmission of our EM waves ... so I
imagine that some type of "disturbances" were occurring in the ether,
even before the big bang ... but, proofs, or disproofs, lie in the
future ... I would drop everything and work to prove, or disprove, the
ether ...

...
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Sep 4, 6:06*pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
*"Cecil Moore" ...
On Sep 3, 1:14 pm, John Smith wrote:

Seriously, though, the real question is "Where did the ether come from?"
Apparently, human intelligence and logic has not yet evolved to be

able to handle such questions although Ayn Rand came close decades
ago.

Always were the two ethers. Normal for the normal electric waves and the
"special" for the EM waves.

The normal is that by Ludwig Lorenz and the second by H. Lorentz.

The normal is the rare plazma (electrons, ions, atoms and dust).
The special is in many forms.

The normal is produced by the Sun. The special - I do not know.
S*

'normally' when something has to be called 'special' it means that it
doesn't represent the real world... not 'special' relativity is just a
subset of 'general' relativity. if the 'normal' is created by the sun
and we now know that there is a discontinuity at the edge of the solar
system where our solar wind is deflected by the galactic plasma... and
indeed there are major discontinuities around the earth due to our
magnetic field... why are there not distortions in the waves traveling
in the plasma? if waves travel in water and the water is moving the
waves move with the water, why can we not measure the difference in
speed or direction of waves carried in the moving solar plasma,
especially when it moves around planets with magnetic fields? why are
light waves not affected by magnetic or electric fields??

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

Uzytkownik "K1TTT" napisal w wiadomosci
...
On Sep 4, 6:06 pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
"Cecil Moore"
...
On Sep 3, 1:14 pm, John Smith wrote:

Seriously, though, the real question is "Where did the ether come
from?"
Apparently, human intelligence and logic has not yet evolved to be

able to handle such questions although Ayn Rand came close decades
ago.

Always were the two ethers. Normal for the normal electric waves and the
"special" for the EM waves.

The normal is that by Ludwig Lorenz and the second by H. Lorentz.

The normal is the rare plazma (electrons, ions, atoms and dust).
The special is in many forms.

The normal is produced by the Sun. The special - I do not know.

'normally' when something has to be called 'special' it means that it
doesn't represent the real world... not 'special' relativity is just a
subset of 'general' relativity. if the 'normal' is created by the sun
and we now know that there is a discontinuity at the edge of the solar
system where our solar wind is deflected by the galactic plasma... and
indeed there are major discontinuities around the earth due to our
magnetic field... why are there not distortions in the waves traveling
in the plasma?

All is like with the sound waves in the wind.

if waves travel in water and the water is moving the
waves move with the water, why can we not measure the difference in
speed or direction of waves carried in the moving solar plasma,

We do: "
"1925 - the Michelson-Gale-Pearson experiment produces a positive result
while attempting to detect the effect of Earth's rotation on the velocity of
light. The significance of the experiment remains debated to this day, but
this planetary Sagnac effect is measured by ring laser gyros and taken into
account by the GPS system."

especially when it moves around planets with magnetic fields? why are
light waves not affected by magnetic or electric fields??

They are. Faraday effect, electrooptic effect and so on.
S*

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Sep 5, 6:32*am, K1TTT wrote:
why are
light waves not affected by magnetic or electric fields??

Light waves (electromagnetic fields) are photons. Magnetic and
electric fields are also photons. Photons do not affect each other
unless they are coherent in which case interference can take place.
Photons have no rest mass and no charge. Any number of photons can
occupy the same "space". Photons are affected by the curvature of
space through which they travel.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 9/5/2010 12:16 PM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
Uzytkownik napisal w wiadomosci
...
On Sep 4, 6:06 pm, "Szczepan wrote:
"Cecil Moore"
...
On Sep 3, 1:14 pm, John wrote:

Seriously, though, the real question is "Where did the ether come
from?"
Apparently, human intelligence and logic has not yet evolved to be

able to handle such questions although Ayn Rand came close decades
ago.

Always were the two ethers. Normal for the normal electric waves and the
"special" for the EM waves.

The normal is that by Ludwig Lorenz and the second by H. Lorentz.

The normal is the rare plazma (electrons, ions, atoms and dust).
The special is in many forms.

The normal is produced by the Sun. The special - I do not know.

'normally' when something has to be called 'special' it means that it
doesn't represent the real world... not 'special' relativity is just a
subset of 'general' relativity. if the 'normal' is created by the sun
and we now know that there is a discontinuity at the edge of the solar
system where our solar wind is deflected by the galactic plasma... and
indeed there are major discontinuities around the earth due to our
magnetic field... why are there not distortions in the waves traveling
in the plasma?

All is like with the sound waves in the wind.

if waves travel in water and the water is moving the
waves move with the water, why can we not measure the difference in
speed or direction of waves carried in the moving solar plasma,

We do: "
"1925 - the Michelson-Gale-Pearson experiment produces a positive result
while attempting to detect the effect of Earth's rotation on the velocity of
light. The significance of the experiment remains debated to this day, but
this planetary Sagnac effect is measured by ring laser gyros and taken into
account by the GPS system."

especially when it moves around planets with magnetic fields? why are
light waves not affected by magnetic or electric fields??

They are. Faraday effect, electrooptic effect and so on.
S*




What a maroon.

tom
K0TAR

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 9/5/2010 4:37 PM, tom wrote:

...
We do: "
"1925 - the Michelson-Gale-Pearson experiment produces a positive result
while attempting to detect the effect of Earth's rotation on the
velocity of
light. The significance of the experiment remains debated to this day,
but
this planetary Sagnac effect is measured by ring laser gyros and taken
into
account by the GPS system."

especially when it moves around planets with magnetic fields? why are
light waves not affected by magnetic or electric fields??

They are. Faraday effect, electrooptic effect and so on.
S*




What a maroon.

tom
K0TAR

In deep space, light should go 100% unimpeded by any magnetic fields.
In an atmosphere, plasma, or other media, I would think light can be
affected, fiber optics can even bend light using a physical force acting
on the media carrying the light, instead of a magnetic field.

In deep space, there is almost nothing but ether, and ether, the
gravitational ether of Einstein, needs to be bent with gravity, and when
the ether is bent, some distortion of the path of light should certainly
be detected ... but that debated experiment, someone already mentioned,
carries on.

Regards,
JS

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

I wonder if ether and dark energy are related?

K

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
On 9/5/2010 4:37 PM, tom wrote:

...
We do: "
"1925 - the Michelson-Gale-Pearson experiment produces a positive result
while attempting to detect the effect of Earth's rotation on the
velocity of
light. The significance of the experiment remains debated to this day,
but
this planetary Sagnac effect is measured by ring laser gyros and taken
into
account by the GPS system."

especially when it moves around planets with magnetic fields? why are
light waves not affected by magnetic or electric fields??

They are. Faraday effect, electrooptic effect and so on.
S*




What a maroon.

tom
K0TAR

In deep space, light should go 100% unimpeded by any magnetic fields. In
an atmosphere, plasma, or other media, I would think light can be
affected, fiber optics can even bend light using a physical force acting
on the media carrying the light, instead of a magnetic field.

In deep space, there is almost nothing but ether, and ether, the
gravitational ether of Einstein, needs to be bent with gravity, and when
the ether is bent, some distortion of the path of light should certainly
be detected ... but that debated experiment, someone already mentioned,
carries on.

Regards,
JS

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 9/5/2010 5:50 PM, K wrote:
I wonder if ether and dark energy are related?

K


Cecil would be the one to help you there. I can tell he has done much
more research into that than I ...

Regards,
JS

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 9/5/2010 7:50 PM, K wrote:
I wonder if ether and dark energy are related?

K

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
On 9/5/2010 4:37 PM, tom wrote:

...
We do: "
"1925 - the Michelson-Gale-Pearson experiment produces a positive
result
while attempting to detect the effect of Earth's rotation on the
velocity of
light. The significance of the experiment remains debated to this day,
but
this planetary Sagnac effect is measured by ring laser gyros and taken
into
account by the GPS system."

especially when it moves around planets with magnetic fields? why are
light waves not affected by magnetic or electric fields??

They are. Faraday effect, electrooptic effect and so on.
S*




What a maroon.

tom
K0TAR

In deep space, light should go 100% unimpeded by any magnetic fields.
In an atmosphere, plasma, or other media, I would think light can be
affected, fiber optics can even bend light using a physical force
acting on the media carrying the light, instead of a magnetic field.

In deep space, there is almost nothing but ether, and ether, the
gravitational ether of Einstein, needs to be bent with gravity, and
when the ether is bent, some distortion of the path of light should
certainly be detected ... but that debated experiment, someone already
mentioned, carries on.

Regards,
JS


Ditto on maroon.

tom
K0TAR