Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 9/5/2010 8:08 PM, tom wrote:
On 9/5/2010 7:50 PM, K wrote:
I wonder if ether and dark energy are related?

K

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
On 9/5/2010 4:37 PM, tom wrote:

...
We do: "
"1925 - the Michelson-Gale-Pearson experiment produces a positive
result
while attempting to detect the effect of Earth's rotation on the
velocity of
light. The significance of the experiment remains debated to this day,
but
this planetary Sagnac effect is measured by ring laser gyros and taken
into
account by the GPS system."

especially when it moves around planets with magnetic fields? why are
light waves not affected by magnetic or electric fields??

They are. Faraday effect, electrooptic effect and so on.
S*




What a maroon.

tom
K0TAR

In deep space, light should go 100% unimpeded by any magnetic fields.
In an atmosphere, plasma, or other media, I would think light can be
affected, fiber optics can even bend light using a physical force
acting on the media carrying the light, instead of a magnetic field.

In deep space, there is almost nothing but ether, and ether, the
gravitational ether of Einstein, needs to be bent with gravity, and
when the ether is bent, some distortion of the path of light should
certainly be detected ... but that debated experiment, someone already
mentioned, carries on.

Regards,
JS


Ditto on maroon.

tom
K0TAR


Due to top posting, I responded to the previous person. Sorry.

I prefer top posting myself, but this group does not.

tom
K0TAR

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 9/5/2010 6:19 PM, tom wrote:


Due to top posting, I responded to the previous person. Sorry.

I prefer top posting myself, but this group does not.

tom
K0TAR


Us maroons think you are missing something:
http://www.dxzone.com/cgi-bin/dir/jump2.cgi?ID=12673

Is you license the highest degree you possess? ROFLOL

Don't even worry about looking like a non-conforming idiot; That is the
least of your problems. :-(

Regards,
JS

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 9/5/2010 6:47 PM, John Smith wrote:

...
Us maroons think you are missing something:
http://www.dxzone.com/cgi-bin/dir/jump2.cgi?ID=12673

Is you license the highest degree you possess? ROFLOL

Don't even worry about looking like a non-conforming idiot; That is the
least of your problems. :-(

Regards,
JS

Uh, this link, instead:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magneto-optic_effect

And, I'll worry about looking like a URL-post bungling idiot! ROFLOL

Regards,
JS

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 8/31/2010 3:54 PM, Cecil Moore wrote:

...
Does God have DNA? If not, where did Jesus' Y DNA come from? If yes,
can God be killed?
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

OK, Cecil, you asked the question, and we did not sleep until we had
your answer. I believe this is an answer to that question:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGLPA...layer_embedded

Sunday, September fifth, two-thousand and ten ... and you were there!

Regards,
JS

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 9/5/2010 8:17 PM, John Smith wrote:

...
OK, Cecil, you asked the question, and we did not sleep until we had
your answer. I believe this is an answer to that question:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGLPA...layer_embedded

Sunday, September fifth, two-thousand and ten ... and you were there!

Regards,
JS

AND!!! LORDY, LORDY, LORDY!

There is MORE! (get it while it is hot! grin)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TIpf...1&feature=fvwp

Regards,
JS

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

"John Smith" wrote
...
On 9/5/2010 4:37 PM, tom wrote:

...
We do: "
"1925 - the Michelson-Gale-Pearson experiment produces a positive result
while attempting to detect the effect of Earth's rotation on the
velocity of
light. The significance of the experiment remains debated to this day,
but
this planetary Sagnac effect is measured by ring laser gyros and taken
into
account by the GPS system."

especially when it moves around planets with magnetic fields? why are
light waves not affected by magnetic or electric fields??

They are. Faraday effect, electrooptic effect and so on.

In deep space, light should go 100% unimpeded by any magnetic fields. In
an atmosphere, plasma, or other media,

No deep space. Everywhere is the Interstellar Medium. There happens the
interesting things with the light.:
http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/l...kyway/ism.html

I would think light can be affected, fiber optics can even bend light
using a physical force acting on the media carrying the light, instead of
a magnetic field.

In deep space, there is almost nothing but ether, and ether, the
gravitational ether of Einstein, needs to be bent with gravity, and when
the ether is bent, some distortion of the path of light should certainly
be detected ... but that debated experiment, someone already mentioned,
carries on.

In "deep space" are also stars so the electroms, ions, atoms and dust have
the different temperatures and density. Speed of all waves are the
temperature dependent. The refraction index also.
S*

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Sep 5, 5:16*pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
Uzytkownik "K1TTT" napisal w ...
On Sep 4, 6:06 pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:



"Cecil Moore"
...
On Sep 3, 1:14 pm, John Smith wrote:

Seriously, though, the real question is "Where did the ether come
from?"
Apparently, human intelligence and logic has not yet evolved to be

able to handle such questions although Ayn Rand came close decades
ago.

Always were the two ethers. Normal for the normal electric waves and the
"special" for the EM waves.

The normal is that by Ludwig Lorenz and the second by H. Lorentz.

The normal is the rare plazma (electrons, ions, atoms and dust).
The special is in many forms.

The normal is produced by the Sun. The special - I do not know.
'normally' when something has to be called 'special' it means that it

doesn't represent the real world... not 'special' relativity is just a
subset of 'general' relativity. *if the 'normal' is created by the sun
and we now know that there is a discontinuity at the edge of the solar
system where our solar wind is deflected by the galactic plasma... and
indeed there are major discontinuities around the earth due to our
magnetic field... why are there not distortions in the waves traveling
in the plasma?

All is like with the sound waves in the wind.

if waves travel in water and the water is moving the

waves move with the water, why can we not measure the difference in
speed or direction of waves carried in the moving solar plasma,

We do: "
"1925 - the Michelson-Gale-Pearson experiment produces a positive result
while attempting to detect the effect of Earth's rotation on the velocity of
light. The significance of the experiment remains debated to this day, but
this planetary Sagnac effect is measured by ring laser gyros and taken into
account by the GPS system."

of course, but this was not detecting aether movement, it was
detecting acceleration from the rotation of the earth as predicted by
special relativity.



especially when it moves around planets with magnetic fields? *why are

light waves not affected by magnetic or electric fields??

They are. Faraday effect, electrooptic effect and so on.
S*

those effect require a material that is sensitive to the field. it is
not the fields themselves that are interacting it is the fields and
the materials.

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Sep 5, 7:50*pm, "K" wrote:
I wonder if ether and dark energy are related?

Let's call it "quantum ether" to distinguish it from the earlier
obsolete concepts. Yes, dark energy seems to make up ~70% of the
universe which is mostly space so there is little doubt that quantum
ether space is related to dark energy in some way.

http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/uni_matter.html
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Recognit... Dark Matter via Hubble & computer enhancement
 

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap100824.html



On 9/6/2010 7:30 AM, Cecil Moore wrote:
On Sep 5, 7:50 pm, wrote:
I wonder if ether and dark energy are related?

Let's call it "quantum ether" to distinguish it from the earlier
obsolete concepts. Yes, dark energy seems to make up ~70% of the
universe which is mostly space so there is little doubt that quantum
ether space is related to dark energy in some way.

http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/uni_matter.html
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

"K1TTT" wrote
...
On Sep 5, 5:16 pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:

We do: "
"1925 - the Michelson-Gale-Pearson experiment produces a positive result
while attempting to detect the effect of Earth's rotation on the velocity
of
light. The significance of the experiment remains debated to this day, but
this planetary Sagnac effect is measured by ring laser gyros and taken
into
account by the GPS system."

of course, but this was not detecting aether movement, it was
detecting acceleration from the rotation of the earth as predicted by
special relativity.

In 1905 Einstein wrote: "Examples of this sort, together with the
unsuccessful attempts to discover any motion of the earth relatively to the
``light medium,'' suggest that the phenomena of electrodynamics as well as
of mechanics possess no properties corresponding to the idea of absolute
rest."

In "1925 - the Michelson-Gale-Pearson experiment produces a positive result"
(motion of the earth relatively to the ``light medium,'' )

As you see after 1925 all predictions of SR and EM are the tales used in
schools to teach the math.
S*

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Sep 7, 10:06*am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
*"K1TTT" ...
On Sep 5, 5:16 pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:



We do: "
"1925 - the Michelson-Gale-Pearson experiment produces a positive result
while attempting to detect the effect of Earth's rotation on the velocity
of
light. The significance of the experiment remains debated to this day, but
this planetary Sagnac effect is measured by ring laser gyros and taken
into
account by the GPS system."
of course, but this was not detecting aether movement, it was

detecting acceleration from the rotation of the earth as predicted by
special relativity.

In 1905 Einstein wrote: "Examples of this sort, together with the

unsuccessful attempts to discover any motion of the earth relatively to the
``light medium,'' suggest that the phenomena of electrodynamics as well as
of mechanics possess no properties corresponding to the idea of absolute
rest."

In "1925 - the Michelson-Gale-Pearson experiment produces a positive result"
(motion of the earth relatively to the ``light medium,'' )

no, its positive result was the acceleration caused by the rotation of
the earth, as in the michelson-morley experiment they detected no
motion with respect to a fix or any other aether... otherwise the
result would have had a predictable variation due to time of day or
year, which was not detected.

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 9/7/2010 3:08 PM, K1TTT wrote:

...
no, its positive result was the acceleration caused by the rotation of
the earth, as in the michelson-morley experiment they detected no
motion with respect to a fix or any other aether... otherwise the
result would have had a predictable variation due to time of day or
year, which was not detected.

On the surface, that statement simply sounds insane. It is always noon
on some portion of the planet and it is always summer somewhere ...

Regards,
JS

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

John Smith wrote:
and it is always summer somewhere ...

"summer" is kind of ill defined..
but what about at the instant of the equinox? precisely the same amount
of north and south hemispheres are illuminated, etc.

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

Uzytkownik "K1TTT" napisal w wiadomosci
...
On Sep 7, 10:06 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:

"1925 - the Michelson-Gale-Pearson experiment produces a positive
result
while attempting to detect the effect of Earth's rotation on the
velocity
of light. The significance of the experiment remains debated to this
day, but
this planetary Sagnac effect is measured by ring laser gyros and taken
into account by the GPS system."

In 1905 Einstein wrote: "Examples of this sort, together with the
unsuccessful attempts to discover any motion of the earth relatively to
the ``light medium,'' suggest that the phenomena of electrodynamics as
well as
of mechanics possess no properties corresponding to the idea of absolute
rest."

In "1925 - the Michelson-Gale-Pearson experiment produces a positive
result"
(motion of the earth relatively to the ``light medium,'' )

no, its positive result was the acceleration caused by the rotation of
the earth, as in the michelson-morley experiment they detected no
motion with respect to a fix

You assume that the ether is fix. The same did Maxwell. But Maxwell did it
before MMX.
You should know (after MMX and MGX) that the ether is not fix. It rotates
with the Sun but not rotate with the Earth (it was predicted by Stokes in
1845).

or any other aether...

They "detected no motion" with respect to Stokes ether.

otherwise the result would have had a predictable variation due to time of
day or
year, which was not detected.

The results of MMX and MGX prove the Stokes ether.
S*

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Sep 8, 8:08*am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
Uzytkownik "K1TTT" napisal w ...
On Sep 7, 10:06 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:





"1925 - the Michelson-Gale-Pearson experiment produces a positive
result
while attempting to detect the effect of Earth's rotation on the
velocity
of light. The significance of the experiment remains debated to this
day, but
this planetary Sagnac effect is measured by ring laser gyros and taken
into *account by the GPS system."

In 1905 Einstein wrote: "Examples of this sort, together with the
unsuccessful attempts to discover any motion of the earth relatively to
the ``light medium,'' suggest that the phenomena of electrodynamics as
well as
of mechanics possess no properties corresponding to the idea of absolute
rest."

In "1925 - the Michelson-Gale-Pearson experiment produces a positive
result"
(motion of the earth relatively to the ``light medium,'' )
no, its positive result was the acceleration caused by the rotation of

the earth, as in the michelson-morley experiment they detected no
motion with respect to a fix

You assume that the ether is fix. The same did Maxwell. But Maxwell did it
before MMX.
You should know (after MMX and MGX) *that the ether is not fix. It rotates
with the Sun but not rotate with the Earth (it was predicted by Stokes in
1845).

or any other aether...

They "detected no motion" with respect to Stokes ether.

otherwise the result would have had a predictable variation due to time of
day or

year, which was not detected.

The results of MMX and MGX prove the Stokes ether.
S*

why don't you just go back to Opticks, thats only about 100 years
older than the almost 200 year old Stokes aether... you are still
going backwards dragging up old disproved theories.

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 9/8/2010 4:43 PM, K1TTT wrote:

...
why don't you just go back to Opticks, thats only about 100 years
older than the almost 200 year old Stokes aether... you are still
going backwards dragging up old disproved theories.

YEAH! It is their imagination that mass-less light gets sucked into a
black hole ... actually those things are radiators!

Regards,
JS

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

"K1TTT" wrote
...
On Sep 8, 8:08 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:

"1925 - the Michelson-Gale-Pearson experiment produces a positive
result
while attempting to detect the effect of Earth's rotation on the
velocity
of light. The significance of the experiment remains debated to this
day, but
this planetary Sagnac effect is measured by ring laser gyros and taken
into account by the GPS system."

The results of MMX and MGX prove the Stokes ether. "It rotates
with the Sun but not rotate with the Earth (it was predicted by Stokes in
1845).

why don't you just go back to Opticks, thats only about 100 years
older than the almost 200 year old Stokes aether... you are still
going backwards dragging up old disproved theories.

Is GPS system 200 year old and disproved?
S*

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Sep 9, 12:27*am, John Smith wrote:
YEAH! It is their imagination that mass-less light gets sucked into a
black hole ... actually those things are radiators!

Hawking radiation seems to be caused by the quantum soup complementary
virtual particles that wink in and out of existence in space. Instead
of being spontaneously annihilated, one of the complementary virtual
particles falls into the black hole and one escapes thus becoming a
real particle.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 9/9/2010 4:36 AM, Cecil Moore wrote:

...
Hawking radiation seems to be caused by the quantum soup complementary
virtual particles that wink in and out of existence in space. Instead
of being spontaneously annihilated, one of the complementary virtual
particles falls into the black hole and one escapes thus becoming a
real particle.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Tomorrow, it is going to be all over the net, "Cecil says every time God
winks a particle of light falls into a black hole; And a new one is born!"

Regards,
JS

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

Cecil Moore wrote:
On Sep 5, 7:50 pm, "K" wrote:
I wonder if ether and dark energy are related?

Let's call it "quantum ether" to distinguish it from the earlier
obsolete concepts.

Now I'll listen.

People trying to resurrect old and not very plausible theories by
equating quantum soup to "aether", or even phlogiston is a great way to
dismiss their ideas. Maybe the flat earthers are right too - we just
haven't found the right proof yet.

- Mike -

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

John Smith wrote:
On 9/7/2010 3:08 PM, K1TTT wrote:

...
no, its positive result was the acceleration caused by the rotation of
the earth, as in the michelson-morley experiment they detected no
motion with respect to a fix or any other aether... otherwise the
result would have had a predictable variation due to time of day or
year, which was not detected.

On the surface, that statement simply sounds insane. It is always noon
on some portion of the planet and it is always summer somewhere ...

Which of course means it's always 5:00 p.m. somewhere too. Happy hour!

- Mike -

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 9/9/2010 9:42 AM, Michael Coslo wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote:
On Sep 5, 7:50 pm, "K" wrote:
I wonder if ether and dark energy are related?

Let's call it "quantum ether" to distinguish it from the earlier
obsolete concepts.

Now I'll listen.

People trying to resurrect old and not very plausible theories by
equating quantum soup to "aether", or even phlogiston is a great way to
dismiss their ideas. Maybe the flat earthers are right too - we just
haven't found the right proof yet.

- Mike -

It's all the same, ether (aether), but like all things which some find
disgusting, some attempt to play word games, like renaming a rose ...

Another example: homosexual = gay

Stupid if you ask me ...

Regards,
JS

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 9/9/2010 9:44 AM, Michael Coslo wrote:

...
Which of course means it's always 5:00 p.m. somewhere too. Happy hour!

- Mike -

I'll drink to that! If my doctor would let me ... :-(

Regards,
JS

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

Cecil Moore wrote:
On Sep 3, 7:43 am, Michael Coslo wrote:
Might as well just say the answer is because God wants it that way.

Please note: As ignorance is slowly alleviated (over the centuries)
that option slowly disappears. Did you see this?

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/...-god-big-bang/


The last line is telling. If you choose nature over God, you will lose.
A lot of people choose religion over science, and apparently always
will. To the point where I have heard just this year both that God
placed fossils in the earth and that Satan placed fossils within the
earth. The former as a test of faith, and the latter as temptation.
Though of course why God would put something in as a test of faith by
the positive outcome being a rejection of the evidence seems a little
strange.

So if people can dismiss actual physical evidence, it is no surprise
that they will reject evidence of a more aetheral nature.

It's their right, always important to remember is that we are all going
to hell in someone's religion.

- Mike -

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Sep 9, 11:55*am, Michael Coslo wrote:
If you choose nature over God, you will lose.

It is impossible to choose nature over God - they are exactly the same
thing.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 9/9/2010 11:10 AM, Cecil Moore wrote:
On Sep 9, 11:55 am, Michael wrote:
If you choose nature over God, you will lose.

It is impossible to choose nature over God - they are exactly the same
thing.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Damn, bald-ugly-unspeakable logic ... how shocking to see it displayed
in public! ROFLOL

Regards,
JS

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Sep 9, 7:46*am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
*"K1TTT" ...
On Sep 8, 8:08 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:



"1925 - the Michelson-Gale-Pearson experiment produces a positive
result
while attempting to detect the effect of Earth's rotation on the
velocity
of light. The significance of the experiment remains debated to this
day, but
this planetary Sagnac effect is measured by ring laser gyros and taken
into account by the GPS system."

The results of MMX and MGX prove the Stokes ether. "It rotates
with the Sun but not rotate with the Earth (it was predicted by Stokes in
1845).
why don't you just go back to Opticks, thats only about 100 years

older than the almost 200 year old Stokes aether... you are still
going backwards dragging up old disproved theories.

Is GPS system 200 year old and disproved?
S*

ah, you think because they mention the gps system using the
corrections that were detected by the mgx experiment that there must
be an aether... but you are wrong, the gps system uses the
acceleration corrections predicted by special relativity that were
verified by the mgx experiment... there is no aether involved, it is
the acceleration caused by the rotating earth that causes the effect.
but of course you won't believe that and will insist that it is
because of aether dragging, but that would cause many other effects
that are NOT observed... in order for a theory to be right it must do
2 things, it must predict something that can be observed, and it must
not fail ANY test that would disprove it. all the aether theories
have failed at least one test over the years and are therefore
incorrect.

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Sep 9, 3:46*pm, K1TTT wrote:
.... there is no aether involved, ...

Assuming the aether is the same thing as the quantum soup, EM wave
propagation would not be possible without it. :-)
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 9/9/2010 1:46 PM, K1TTT wrote:


ah, you think because they mention the gps system using the
corrections that were detected by the mgx experiment that there must
be an aether... but you are wrong, the gps system uses the
acceleration corrections predicted by special relativity that were
verified by the mgx experiment... there is no aether involved, it is
the acceleration caused by the rotating earth that causes the effect.
but of course you won't believe that and will insist that it is
because of aether dragging, but that would cause many other effects
that are NOT observed... in order for a theory to be right it must do
2 things, it must predict something that can be observed, and it must
not fail ANY test that would disprove it. all the aether theories
have failed at least one test over the years and are therefore
incorrect.

What does the rotating earth accelerate? Light, RF? The speed of light
is fixed within its' media, the ether, the only way to accelerate EM is
to accelerate the ether itself ...

The exact same arguments you state can be used as an argument for the
ether as well as SR ...

Regards,
JS

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 9/9/2010 11:44 AM, Michael Coslo wrote:
John Smith wrote:
On 9/7/2010 3:08 PM, K1TTT wrote:

...
no, its positive result was the acceleration caused by the rotation of
the earth, as in the michelson-morley experiment they detected no
motion with respect to a fix or any other aether... otherwise the
result would have had a predictable variation due to time of day or
year, which was not detected.

On the surface, that statement simply sounds insane. It is always noon
on some portion of the planet and it is always summer somewhere ...

Which of course means it's always 5:00 p.m. somewhere too. Happy hour!

- Mike -

Actually it is not always summer somewhere. That's quite obvious. It
is only summer somewhere 6 months of the year, the other 6 it's spring
and fall.

tom
K0TAR

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 9/9/2010 5:09 PM, tom wrote:

...
Actually it is not always summer somewhere. That's quite obvious. It is
only summer somewhere 6 months of the year, the other 6 it's spring and
fall.

tom
K0TAR


NO. But it is obvious you see the sun going between two hemispheres. I
see it oscillating through quadrants ...

Regards,
JS

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

"K1TTT" wrote
...
On Sep 9, 7:46 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:

"1925 - the Michelson-Gale-Pearson experiment produces a positive
result
while attempting to detect the effect of Earth's rotation on the
velocity
of light. The significance of the experiment remains debated to this
day, but
this planetary Sagnac effect is measured by ring laser gyros and
taken
into account by the GPS system."

The results of MMX and MGX prove the Stokes ether. "It rotates
with the Sun but not rotate with the Earth (it was predicted by Stokes
in
1845).
why don't you just go back to Opticks, thats only about 100 years

older than the almost 200 year old Stokes aether... you are still
going backwards dragging up old disproved theories.

Is GPS system 200 year old and disproved?
S*

ah, you think because they mention the gps system using the
corrections that were detected by the mgx experiment that there must
be an aether... but you are wrong, the gps system uses the
acceleration corrections predicted by special relativity that were
verified by the mgx experiment... there is no aether involved, it is
the acceleration caused by the rotating earth that causes the effect.
but of course you won't believe that and will insist that it is
because of aether dragging,

Earth rotate with the soup around the Sun (Sun's ether drag). No the Earth's
ether drag.

but that would cause many other effects
that are NOT observed... in order for a theory to be right it must do
2 things, it must predict something that can be observed, and it must
not fail ANY test that would disprove it.

Stokes ether not fail ANY test.

all the aether theories
have failed at least one test over the years and are therefore
incorrect.

The only one ether theory have failed. The solid dielectric ether. That
described by Heaviside:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Electr..._moving_charge

" It will be understood that I preach the gospel according to my
interpretation of Maxwell, and that any modification his theory of the
dielectric may receive may involve a fresh kind of propagation at present
not in question."

"All disturbances being propagated through the dielectric ether at the speed
of light,"

Now is like Cecil wrote: "Assuming the aether is the same thing as the
quantum soup, EM wave
propagation would not be possible without it. "

The next name is the "Interstllar Medium". The each soup must rotate with
the Sun because it is the Sun's product.

The soup is not the dilectric. It is plasma and as it is a conductor like
metals. Your radio waves propagate in the same manner in the metals and the
soup. They also propagate in a dilectrics as the displacement current.

But of course you won't believe that and will insist that it is because of
SR.
S*

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Aug 28, 3:32*pm, Cecil Moore wrote:
On Aug 28, 1:06*pm, Art Unwin wrote:

One of the most perplexing aurguements in the history of Physics is
the supposed existence of the *Aether.

It has been proven that "empty space" is indeed not empty and consists
of quantum particles that wink in and out of existence. Aether does
exist as a sort of quantum soup, just not in the limited form that was
earlier conceived in the past before quantum physics. The Casimir
effect is a manifestation of the quantum soup that exists in "empty
space". Some physicists think that's where the dark energy is hiding.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Even if you remove the misc quantum particles empty space isnt
nothing. The problem most people have with their concept of the
universe is thinking of totally empty space as nothing. Space even
completely void of energy and various subatomic particles is still
something. We know that something can be altered so if you want to
call it Aether go ahead, a rose by any other name.....The present
title is usually space/time.

Jimmie

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 9/10/2010 4:42 AM, JIMMIE wrote:

...
call it Aether go ahead, a rose by any other name.....The present
title is usually space/time.

Jimmie

You touched on one major problem there, which throws most people off and
keeps them from being able to realize there is an ether, time. There is
no such thing as time which you can put in a bottle. There are no time
wells, there is no time flow, time is an imaginary concept.

Time is simply movement and distance conceptualized into a singular
"thing." No one has ever experienced time, they experience movement and
distance. No device has ever been created which can measure time or,
even, detect time. Our very best and most technical clock only measures
movement and distance, or loss of mass (movement of electrons away from
the main mass.)

If you have your mind locked into the space where it still
conceptualizes time as a real thing, it is going to be difficult to make
the jump in thinking to be able to conceptualize the ether. The ether
is what allows a concept like time to look real, a medium for things to
move through and required for anything we are seeing happening to occur in.

Regards,
JS

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Sep 10, 6:42*am, JIMMIE wrote:
Space even completely void of energy and various
subatomic particles is still something

Nope, it's not. Nothing that is completely devoid of energy/matter is
absolute nothing, i.e. zero volume and outside of the boundaries of
our universe, i.e. our space is a property of matter/energy. That
absolute nothing is what allows parallel universes to exist with zero
communications between them. The space contained by our universe is a
bubble caused by matter/energy. Outside that bubble is absolute
nothing.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 9/10/2010 3:13 PM, Cecil Moore wrote:
On Sep 10, 6:42 am, wrote:
Space even completely void of energy and various
subatomic particles is still something

Nope, it's not. Nothing that is completely devoid of energy/matter is
absolute nothing, i.e. zero volume and outside of the boundaries of
our universe, i.e. our space is a property of matter/energy. That
absolute nothing is what allows parallel universes to exist with zero
communications between them. The space contained by our universe is a
bubble caused by matter/energy. Outside that bubble is absolute
nothing.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

I don't think so. We have nothing which can "touch" either, no "bottle"
we can hold some portion of it in ... and a soap bubble can't exist in a
vacuum ... I doubt if an either bubble can exist in "nothing." At the
very least, there would be yet another undiscovered media which supports
ether in the same manner with our ether supports our matter, and does
interact with ether ... but, that is only using logic.

I seen some news on the hadron collider ... they are moving up the time
frame when a lot of their predictions, on new particles, should be
found/proven ... I forgot to bookmark it. If I find it in the future I
will post it here ...

Regards,
JS

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Sep 10, 7:55*am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
*"K1TTT" ...
On Sep 9, 7:46 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:





"1925 - the Michelson-Gale-Pearson experiment produces a positive
result
while attempting to detect the effect of Earth's rotation on the
velocity
of light. The significance of the experiment remains debated to this
day, but
this planetary Sagnac effect is measured by ring laser gyros and
taken
into account by the GPS system."

The results of MMX and MGX prove the Stokes ether. "It rotates
with the Sun but not rotate with the Earth (it was predicted by Stokes
in
1845).
why don't you just go back to Opticks, thats only about 100 years

older than the almost 200 year old Stokes aether... you are still
going backwards dragging up old disproved theories.

Is GPS system 200 year old and disproved?
S*
ah, you think because they mention the gps system using the

corrections that were detected by the mgx experiment that there must
be an aether... but you are wrong, the gps system uses the
acceleration corrections predicted by special relativity that were
verified by the mgx experiment... there is no aether involved, it is
the acceleration caused by the rotating earth that causes the effect.
but of course you won't believe that and will insist that it is
because of aether dragging,

Earth rotate with the soup around the Sun (Sun's ether drag). No the Earth's
ether drag.

but that would cause many other effects

that are NOT observed... in order for a theory to be right it must do
2 things, it must predict something that can be observed, and it must
not fail ANY test that would disprove it.

Stokes ether not fail ANY test.

*all the aether theories

have failed at least one test over the years and are therefore
incorrect.

The only one ether theory have failed. The solid dielectric ether. That
described by Heaviside:http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Electr..._moving_charge

" It will be understood that I preach the gospel according to my
interpretation of Maxwell, and that any modification his theory of the
dielectric may receive may involve a fresh kind of propagation at present
not in question."

"All disturbances being propagated through the dielectric ether at the speed
of light,"

Now is like Cecil wrote: "Assuming the aether is the same thing as the
quantum soup, EM wave
propagation would not be possible without it. "

The next name is the "Interstllar Medium". The each soup must rotate with
the Sun because it is the Sun's product.

The soup is not the dilectric. It is plasma and as it is a conductor like
metals. Your radio waves propagate in the same manner in the metals and the
soup. They also propagate in a dilectrics as the displacement current.

But of course you won't believe that and will insist that it is because of
SR.
S*

no, sr is not necessary for propagation. and a dielectric is not
necessary for displacement current. nor is plasma necessary. you are
still very selective in your reading, a simple search shows that
stokes as well as all the other aether theories have been disproved
for nearly 100 years now.

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Sep 9, 10:55*pm, John Smith wrote:
On 9/9/2010 1:46 PM, K1TTT wrote:



ah, you think because they mention the gps system using the
corrections that were detected by the mgx experiment that there must
be an aether... but you are wrong, the gps system uses the
acceleration corrections predicted by special relativity that were
verified by the mgx experiment... there is no aether involved, it is
the acceleration caused by the rotating earth that causes the effect.
but of course you won't believe that and will insist that it is
because of aether dragging, but that would cause many other effects
that are NOT observed... in order for a theory to be right it must do
2 things, it must predict something that can be observed, and it must
not fail ANY test that would disprove it. *all the aether theories
have failed at least one test over the years and are therefore
incorrect.

What does the rotating earth accelerate? Light, RF? *The speed of light
is fixed within its' media, the ether, the only way to accelerate EM is
to accelerate the ether itself ...

The exact same arguments you state can be used as an argument for the
ether as well as SR ...

Regards,
JS

you obviously don't know the difference between speed and velocity and
how you can accelerate something without changing its speed. in any
case, if there were any kind of aether dragging or acceleration it
would cause shock or bow waves of compression in the aether at some
point that could be detected by variations in the speed of light in
different directions. this applies for earth dragging aether, or mr.
b's sun dragged aether.

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Sep 10, 7:12*pm, John Smith wrote:
... I doubt if an either bubble can exist in "nothing" ...

That's exactly what I was trying to say. The quantum soup that we call
"empty space" within our bounded universe is not empty. Space within
our universe can never be absolutely empty and always contains at
least dark energy which comprises ~70% of our universe. It is
sometimes called zero-point energy, surrounds us, and allows us to
exist. From Wikipedia: "Zero-point energy is sometimes used as a
synonym for the vacuum energy, an amount of energy associated with the
vacuum of empty space. When the term is used in this way, sometimes it
is referred to as the quantum vacuum zero point energy." Absolute-
nothing, i.e. less than zero-point energy, is the complete absence of
any type of matter and energy. Space cannot exist within absolute-
nothing which is what makes parallel universes possible. Instead of
asserting that space contains dark (zero-point) energy, it would be
more correct to to assert that space is the *result* of the pressure
of dark (zero-point) energy, i.e. the quantum vacuum that we call
"empty space" is *caused* by the existence of zero point energy left
over from the big bang - also responsible for the present expansion of
the universe.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Sep 11, 2:21*pm, Cecil Moore wrote:
On Sep 10, 7:12*pm, John Smith wrote:

*... I doubt if an either bubble can exist in "nothing" ...

That's exactly what I was trying to say. The quantum soup that we call
"empty space" within our bounded universe is not empty. Space within
our universe can never be absolutely empty and always contains at
least dark energy which comprises ~70% of our universe. It is
sometimes called zero-point energy, surrounds us, and allows us to
exist. From Wikipedia: "Zero-point energy is sometimes used as a
synonym for the vacuum energy, an amount of energy associated with the
vacuum of empty space. When the term is used in this way, sometimes it
is referred to as the quantum vacuum zero point energy." Absolute-
nothing, i.e. less than zero-point energy, is the complete absence of
any type of matter and energy. Space cannot exist within absolute-
nothing which is what makes parallel universes possible. Instead of
asserting that space contains dark (zero-point) energy, it would be
more correct to to assert that space is the *result* of the pressure
of dark (zero-point) energy, i.e. the quantum vacuum that we call
"empty space" is *caused* by the existence of zero point energy left
over from the big bang - also responsible for the present expansion of
the universe.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

has anyone linked zpe or 'quantum soup' or dark energy to
electromagnetic waves in a way that preserves the constancy of the
speed of light in all reference frames? or related those phenomena to
epsilon or mu of free space?