Hello 1st post here.

I have made 20 meter delta loop.
What I am thinking is...
If I also make a 40 meter loop, and a 10 meter loop, putting them either
side of the 20 loop. As in the 20 loop in the middle. The 40 behind, the 10
in front.
With suitable spacing, all strung on 3 fishing poles.
Will this work as a directional beam of sorts hopefully all 3 bands.
I am hoping 3 traditional elements on 20,
even driven element on 40 /with 2 directors,
and on 10 with 2 reflectors.
I know the lengths of the director's and reflectors won't be as standard but
with a tuner does anyone will it work to a degree?

Just kicking the idea around.

Anyone done it before?

thanks' for any help or suggestions.

On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 14:15:01 +0100,
wrote:

I know the lengths of the director's and reflectors won't be as standard but

But, nothing; that's not the way things work. To get beam action,
there is a very strong correlation between element size, element
orientation, separation distance, and wavelength. Size and distance
are on order of fractions of a quarterwave, not multiples of
wavelengths.

with a tuner does anyone will it work to a degree?

A tuner is for tuning (getting the SWR to a reasonable match). It has
nothing to do with antenna directionality.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

In article ,
wrote:

Hello 1st post here.

I have made 20 meter delta loop.
What I am thinking is...
If I also make a 40 meter loop, and a 10 meter loop, putting them either
side of the 20 loop. As in the 20 loop in the middle. The 40 behind, the 10
in front.
With suitable spacing, all strung on 3 fishing poles.
Will this work as a directional beam of sorts hopefully all 3 bands.
I am hoping 3 traditional elements on 20,
even driven element on 40 /with 2 directors,
and on 10 with 2 reflectors.
I know the lengths of the director's and reflectors won't be as standard but
with a tuner does anyone will it work to a degree?

I think you'd need to model it out with NEC to see if it would work.

I'm unclear as to whether you're planning to have separate feedlines
for the three delta loops, or whether you were thinking of just
driving one of the loops on all three bands and having the other two
loops be entirely passive. If you are thinking of driving the three
loops separately, I'm uncertain what you intend to do with the other
two loops - leave the feedlines open, short the feedlines, or
disconnect the loops from the feedlines and short the loops closed at
the feedpoint.

You'll be facing a few significant issues, when trying to use the
un-driven loops as directors / reflectors. For the sake of simplicity
I'll assume that the un-driven loops will be purely passive loops of
the expected length (e.g. no feedlines, or with the loop shorted
closed at the feedpoint).

For example, on 20:

- The 10-meter loop is going to be only a half-wavelength long. It
won't resonate (or be anything close to resonance), but will
instead have a low radiation resistance and a very high reactive
impedance. As a result it will probably be almost "invisible" at
20 meters, and will not carry enough currents to affect the pattern
significantly.

- The 40-meter loop will be about 2 wavelengths long. Although it may
be at (or close to) a second-harmonic resonance, the currents in it
would not line up well with those in the fundamental-resonance
20-meter loop, and the effect on the main loop's overall radiation
pattern would probably be quite weird.

Similarly, on 40, the two smaller loops will be highly reactive and
thus almost "invisible". On 10, the two larger loops may resonate,
but with current patterns which don't add well to that of the 10-meter
loop and thus affect the pattern in weird ways.

There's another option: use some nested passive delta loops. Mount a
second 10-meter delta loop (tuned a bit lower in frequency than you
normally operate) suspended inside the 20-meter delta. Mount a second
20-meter loop (again, tuned a bit on the low side) inside the 40-meter
delta. This would give you the effect of a two-element beam (radiator
and reflector) on 10 and 20 meters, without affecting 40-meter
operation significantly.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

On Jul 21, 8:15*am, wrote:
thanks' for any help or suggestions.

Take a look at the multiband quad beam in *The ARRL Antenna Book*.
That's what you would have to do for your multiband delta beam. Your
idea will simply not work.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

On 7/21/2011 12:09 PM, Dave Platt wrote:
In ,
wrote:

Hello 1st post here.

I have made 20 meter delta loop.
What I am thinking is...
If I also make a 40 meter loop, and a 10 meter loop, putting them either
side of the 20 loop. As in the 20 loop in the middle. The 40 behind, the 10
in front.
With suitable spacing, all strung on 3 fishing poles.
Will this work as a directional beam of sorts hopefully all 3 bands.
I am hoping 3 traditional elements on 20,
even driven element on 40 /with 2 directors,
and on 10 with 2 reflectors.
I know the lengths of the director's and reflectors won't be as standard but
with a tuner does anyone will it work to a degree?

I think you'd need to model it out with NEC to see if it would work.

I'm unclear as to whether you're planning to have separate feedlines
for the three delta loops, or whether you were thinking of just
driving one of the loops on all three bands and having the other two
loops be entirely passive. If you are thinking of driving the three
loops separately, I'm uncertain what you intend to do with the other
two loops - leave the feedlines open, short the feedlines, or
disconnect the loops from the feedlines and short the loops closed at
the feedpoint.



You'll be facing a few significant issues, when trying to use the
un-driven loops as directors / reflectors. For the sake of simplicity
I'll assume that the un-driven loops will be purely passive loops of
the expected length (e.g. no feedlines, or with the loop shorted
closed at the feedpoint).


There's another option: use some nested passive delta loops. Mount a
second 10-meter delta loop (tuned a bit lower in frequency than you
normally operate) suspended inside the 20-meter delta. Mount a second
20-meter loop (again, tuned a bit on the low side) inside the 40-meter
delta. This would give you the effect of a two-element beam (radiator
and reflector) on 10 and 20 meters, without affecting 40-meter
operation significantly.



Hard to know exactly what you're planning on building. Are you going to
have 3 loops, one for 10, one for 20, one for 40 arranged in a row, sort
of like rings on a post?

If you had a tuner on each loop, one might be able to get it to work.
For instance, one can build a Yagi with 3 equal (or arbitrary) length
elements and use L or C at the centers of the elements to get the
phasing right.

The problem with 3 loops of radically different size is that the L
and/or C might be impractically large/small to get it to work.

With a bit of work modeling, you MIGHT be able to come up with a single
L and C per band for each element, so you could use some sort of simple
"two relays per loop" scheme.

thanks for the input good fellows!
I'm obviously just playing around here.
I have looked round on the net and it's a cobweb antenna I was headed for.
I had the idea explained to me, but until I saw it, I had NO IDEA!
now it a tad clearer.

http://www.g3tpw.co.uk/

here is the website I found. clear as mud now... thanks again.

On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 10:55:59 +0100,
wrote:

thanks for the input good fellows!
I'm obviously just playing around here.
I have looked round on the net and it's a cobweb antenna I was headed for.
I had the idea explained to me, but until I saw it, I had NO IDEA!
now it a tad clearer.

http://www.g3tpw.co.uk/

here is the website I found. clear as mud now... thanks again.

First, the design you are looking is NOT a loop (nor loops).

The design you are looking is NOT a beam.

The design you are looking is NOT directional.

Aside from that, it has been around for a while, and satisfies many.
You may be one who would be happy with it, but that is obscure until
you tell us what you want to achieve without trying to shoe-horn in
presumed solutions.

The simple explanation for the design you have linked to is that it is
a "Fan Dipole." The fan is found in the common feed point (at the
left) supporting paired wires for each band spreading (fanning) out.
What makes it unusual is that it is wrapped into a box-like footprint
(without the ends meeting, look closely at the photo). The wrapping
also changes the usual dipole radiation characteristic from dipolar
(radiating in two major lobes) to nonpolar (radiating in all
directions).

Do you have a call sign?

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Do you have a call sign?

no, no call sign, I have just been given a shortwave radio
Realistic DX-300 Shortwave Radio Receiver.
I was told I could just hang a good length of wire out in the tree and it
will work.
It does but thought I would have a bit of a go at improving things.
I read a lot on the ham radio news groups, but you can get bitten when you
ask a question,
so thought would try here. I quite like listening to ham types, and the
techno talk, not too keen on the 5/9 next please bust busy contacts, but
when people have real conversations about making stuff its good listening.
.. thanks anyhow.

On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 22:01:02 +0100,
wrote:

I was told I could just hang a good length of wire out in the tree and it
will work.
It does but thought I would have a bit of a go at improving things.

A good connection to ground, and a tuner will do a lot with your
established antenna.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC