I have a Hustler amateur mobile antenna model RM-80 for 80 Meter 25-30 KHz.
Although it was designed as a mobile I want to use it as a portable, can
anybody tell me the length of the counterpoise needed for this model? or can
I just use an earth wire

I have a Hustler amateur mobile antenna model RM-80 for 80 Meter 25-30 KHz.
Can
anybody tell me the length of the counterpoise needed for this model?

A 1/4 wave counterpoise would be about 65 feet or 20 meters. Mobile antennas
use the vehicle body as a counterpoise. Your 65' wire or a vehicle used as a
counterpoise will not produce very good results, because the efficiency of the
short radiator is only a couple of percent.
As an option, a really good performing portable 80m antenna that I have used
many times is an inverted vee supported by one of those 33' fiberglass poles.
It is fed with 450 ohm line and a tuner. The vee is 50' (15 meters) per leg.
You will need about 80'-90' to spread the vee. That's a lot of space, but you
will need 65' for the counterpoise for the Hustler. It will beat the
Hustler-counterpoise idea significantly, and you can QSY all over the band.
With a Hustler you have a narrow bandwidth.
Good luck and DX.

73 Gary N4AST

"Neil Gibson" wrote in message ...
I have a Hustler amateur mobile antenna model RM-80 for 80 Meter 25-30 KHz.
Although it was designed as a mobile I want to use it as a portable,

You may think you do, but you really don't.. Well, maybe if you like
radio torture sessions where 100w out works like 5w... Only if you
were at the beach on salt water, or had 60 or more radials under it
for a normal ground mount, would I give it an estimate of doing a half
decent job.

can
anybody tell me the length of the counterpoise needed for this model? or can
I just use an earth wire

As noted, a 1/4 wave is appx 60 ft, but one radial is nearly useless
at reducing ground losses on a ground mount vertical. And being the
vertical is short, and fairly inefficient, the need of a *good* radial
or ground system is extra critical.
On a car, you just take the ground losses and deal with them, as there
is no real choice. But the hustler antenna in itself, is not the best
in the west. The coil is fairly lossy. But on the other hand, with one
radial, ground losses would likely overshadow coil losses, and it
wouldn't matter. :/ What is "portable" going to be? When I run
portable, I just string up a quicky dipole, or use my mobile antenna
thats on the truck. But my mobile antenna is a good bit better than
the hustler...Less coil loss. It's a fairly usable system even on 80m.
But I string a dipole in some trees if I want a *real* signal. I also
have two of those "drive on" mast holders that you park a wheel on. So
I can actually put up masts quite easily portable if no trees are
around.
I use those cheap 10 ft fence rail sections as mast. Two gives 20 ft,
and can be put up easily by one person. Three is too top heavy unless
you use extra guying precautions..I've tried lifting three together
once, 30 ft" and it was kind hairy...So I just stick with 20 ft
worth. It's good enough for the average NVIS stuff I usually work on
80m. MK

"Neil Gibson" wrote in message ...
I have a Hustler amateur mobile antenna model RM-80 for 80 Meter 25-30 KHz.
Although it was designed as a mobile I want to use it as a portable,

You may think you do, but you really don't.. Well, maybe if you like
radio torture sessions where 100w out works like 5w... Only if you
were at the beach on salt water, or had 60 or more radials under it
for a normal ground mount, would I give it an estimate of doing a half
decent job.

can
anybody tell me the length of the counterpoise needed for this model? or can
I just use an earth wire

As noted, a 1/4 wave is appx 60 ft, but one radial is nearly useless
at reducing ground losses on a ground mount vertical. And being the
vertical is short, and fairly inefficient, the need of a *good* radial
or ground system is extra critical.
On a car, you just take the ground losses and deal with them, as there
is no real choice. But the hustler antenna in itself, is not the best
in the west. The coil is fairly lossy. But on the other hand, with one
radial, ground losses would likely overshadow coil losses, and it
wouldn't matter. :/ What is "portable" going to be? When I run
portable, I just string up a quicky dipole, or use my mobile antenna
thats on the truck. But my mobile antenna is a good bit better than
the hustler...Less coil loss. It's a fairly usable system even on 80m.
But I string a dipole in some trees if I want a *real* signal. I also
have two of those "drive on" mast holders that you park a wheel on. So
I can actually put up masts quite easily portable if no trees are
around.
I use those cheap 10 ft fence rail sections as mast. Two gives 20 ft,
and can be put up easily by one person. Three is too top heavy unless
you use extra guying precautions..I've tried lifting three together
once, 30 ft" and it was kind hairy...So I just stick with 20 ft
worth. It's good enough for the average NVIS stuff I usually work on
80m. MK

Neil,
By now, you have probably figured out that the 'Hustler'
antenna as a portable isn't exactly the best idea without
a very good ground system. But, it will work with a
counterpoise. Not well, but it will work. Something in
the near 'neighborhood' of a 1/4 wave for the counterpoise's
length should make the transmitter 'see' a load it can work
into (depending on how that counterpoise is 'laid out').
There are other options for a portable antenna that may
work better than an extremely shortened mobile antenna...
'Doc

You know, one wonders what happens if you swap the Hustler and the
counterpoise? Coax center to a quarter wave piece of wire, shield to a
(ugh! I had one once) Hustler not too near the ground. Nothing different
probably, but you never know.

--
Crazy George
Remove N O and S P A M imbedded in return address
"'Doc" wrote in message ...


Neil,
By now, you have probably figured out that the 'Hustler'
antenna as a portable isn't exactly the best idea without
a very good ground system. But, it will work with a
counterpoise. Not well, but it will work. Something in
the near 'neighborhood' of a 1/4 wave for the counterpoise's
length should make the transmitter 'see' a load it can work
into (depending on how that counterpoise is 'laid out').
There are other options for a portable antenna that may
work better than an extremely shortened mobile antenna...
'Doc

And, one other idea !! (found on the bay of "e"), and available elsewhere-
a mount for 2 of these (or the hustler, and an Iron Horse, ect) "1/4" wave
antenna -- first antenna goes to center of coax, second goes to shield!!
makes a dipole, about 15 foot long, and can be mounted to mast (conductive,
or plastic, same diff! tho the impedence will be quite low (because of
these loaded
whips), and the effeciency will be also not the best, at least would be an
effective counterpoise!! and, to boot, parts available to build adaptor at
rip-off shack!! got whole thing off epay for about 50 bux, + shipping!!
Jim NN7K


"Crazy George" wrote in message
...
You know, one wonders what happens if you swap the Hustler and the
counterpoise? Coax center to a quarter wave piece of wire, shield to a
(ugh! I had one once) Hustler not too near the ground. Nothing different
probably, but you never know.

--
Crazy George
Remove N O and S P A M imbedded in return address
"'Doc" wrote in message ...


Neil,
By now, you have probably figured out that the 'Hustler'
antenna as a portable isn't exactly the best idea without
a very good ground system. But, it will work with a
counterpoise. Not well, but it will work. Something in
the near 'neighborhood' of a 1/4 wave for the counterpoise's
length should make the transmitter 'see' a load it can work
into (depending on how that counterpoise is 'laid out').
There are other options for a portable antenna that may
work better than an extremely shortened mobile antenna...
'Doc

BTW that is Both Antennas, and the adaptor- not too expensive- cheaper when
need only one ant, and the adaptor.


"Jim" wrote in message
...


And, one other idea !! (found on the bay of "e"), and available elsewhere-
a mount for 2 of these (or the hustler, and an Iron Horse, ect) "1/4"
wave
antenna -- first antenna goes to center of coax, second goes to shield!!
makes a dipole, about 15 foot long, and can be mounted to mast
(conductive,
or plastic, same diff! tho the impedence will be quite low (because of
these loaded
whips), and the effeciency will be also not the best, at least would be
an
effective counterpoise!! and, to boot, parts available to build adaptor
at
rip-off shack!! got whole thing off epay for about 50 bux, + shipping!!
Jim NN7K


"Crazy George" wrote in message
...
You know, one wonders what happens if you swap the Hustler and the
counterpoise? Coax center to a quarter wave piece of wire, shield to a
(ugh! I had one once) Hustler not too near the ground. Nothing
different
probably, but you never know.

--
Crazy George
Remove N O and S P A M imbedded in return address
"'Doc" wrote in message
...


Neil,
By now, you have probably figured out that the 'Hustler'
antenna as a portable isn't exactly the best idea without
a very good ground system. But, it will work with a
counterpoise. Not well, but it will work. Something in
the near 'neighborhood' of a 1/4 wave for the counterpoise's
length should make the transmitter 'see' a load it can work
into (depending on how that counterpoise is 'laid out').
There are other options for a portable antenna that may
work better than an extremely shortened mobile antenna...
'Doc

Jim wrote:
BTW that is Both Antennas, and the adaptor- not too expensive- cheaper when
need only one ant, and the adaptor.

It works well enough above 14 MHz, but such an antenna for
75m is a real dog.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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Jim wrote:
And, one other idea !! (found on the bay of "e"), and available elsewhere-
a mount for 2 of these (or the hustler, and an Iron Horse, ect) "1/4" wave
antenna -- first antenna goes to center of coax, second goes to shield!!
makes a dipole, about 15 foot long, and can be mounted to mast (conductive,
or plastic, same diff! tho the impedence will be quite low (because of
these loaded
whips), and the effeciency will be also not the best, at least would be an
effective counterpoise!! and, to boot, parts available to build adaptor at
rip-off shack!! got whole thing off epay for about 50 bux, + shipping!!
Jim NN7K

What do you consider to be the purpose(s) of a counterpoise?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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