UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

In message , Szczepan
Bialek writes

"Ian Jackson" napisal w wiadomosci
...
In message , Szczepan Bialek
writes



"The wire antennas used with crystal receivers are monopole antennas

The words "almost always, almost every time, almost invariably and almost
without exception" are missing.

As crystal receivers are normally used at low frequencies (long and medium
wave), the obvious antenna to use is an end-fed long wire monopole. This,
of course, requires a ground.

However, in principle, you could use a (probably large) dipole, provided
you modified/designed the circuit of the receiver so that it would take a
balanced input (which would probably also be low impedance).

I'm pretty sure that some of the early radar receiving systems used
essentially a dipole antenna feeding a crystal receiver.

You are right:
"A simple rectenna element consists of a dipole antenna with a diode
connected across the dipole elements." And:
"A nantenna is a very small rectenna the size of a light wave, fabricated
using nanotechnology, which acts as an "antenna" for light,"

Each rectenna arm (or dipole element) must be shorter then 1/4 WL.

But: "Where the electrons come from?
S*

The product of a deranged mind?
--
Ian

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

U¿ytkownik "Ian" napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
...


Even if one is in air and the second in the ground?
"The quarter wave monopole antenna is a single element antenna fed at one
end, that behaves as a dipole antenna"
S*

Good afternoon Szczepan. I see that, after several weeks and lots of
postings, you still do not understand the difference between a monopole
and a dipole. Please also note the phrase "behaves as".

"behaves as"means that radiate the same as the real dipole.

"I see that, after several weeks and lots of postings, you still do not
understand the difference between the Hertz dipole and Marconi antenna."

Kindest regards,
S*

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

napisa? w wiadomo?ci
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:


I was asking on the speed of electrons in the conductor.

No you were babbling about electrons jumping off the end of the antenna
yet again.

You have also been told many times that the speed of the electrons in the
conductor is less than a slow crawl.

The average speed.
The circuit with an antenna was named "open circuit" before Maxwell.
Maxwell discovered that the current is "prolongated" in the insulator
(displacement current) so the all circuits are "closed".
So at the bonduary the electrons must jump off. And come back.
In each textbooks is wrote that electrons jump off from a conductor and come
back.
But sometimes this phenomena is not symmetric.
S*

Everything you just wrote is babbling, moronic, nonsense.

You are an ignorant, babbling, ineducable idiot who knows absolutely
NOTHING about how anything works.

How many antennas have you built in your lifetime?

Why do you refuse to answer the question?

Is it because you have built zero antennas and you are trying to say all
the people that have successfully built hundreds that they are all wrong
and you don't want to admit you are an ignorant, inducable, idiot?

Why can't you obtain and read a university level textbook on anything
in any language?

Is it because you are too stupid to be able to understand the material?

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

U?ytkownik "Ian" napisa? w wiadomo?ci
...
"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
...


Even if one is in air and the second in the ground?
"The quarter wave monopole antenna is a single element antenna fed at one
end, that behaves as a dipole antenna"
S*

Good afternoon Szczepan. I see that, after several weeks and lots of
postings, you still do not understand the difference between a monopole
and a dipole. Please also note the phrase "behaves as".

"behaves as"means that radiate the same as the real dipole.

"I see that, after several weeks and lots of postings, you still do not
understand the difference between the Hertz dipole and Marconi antenna."

Kindest regards,
S*

You are an ignorant, babbling, ineducable idiot who knows absolutely
NOTHING about anything.

You don't even understand what an antenna is or the difference between
an electric field, a magnetic field, and an electromagnetic field.

An antenna is a device that converts the AC electrical energy at it's
teminals into electromagnetic energy which radiates from the antenna
and also coverts the electromagnetic energy which antenna intercepts
into AC electrical energy at it's terminals.

Since an antenna is defined in terms of its geometry with respect to its
terminals, anything that may be connected to the terminals, such as a balun,
transmission line, or ground has NOTHING to do with what the antenna is or
how the antenna operates.

How many antennas have you built in your lifetime?

Why do you refuse to answer the question?

Is it because you have built zero antennas and you are trying to say all
the people that have successfully built hundreds that they are all wrong
and you don't want to admit you are an ignorant, inducable, idiot?

Why can't you obtain and read a university level textbook on anything
in any language?

Is it because you are too stupid to be able to understand the material?

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"Ian Jackson" napisal w wiadomosci
...
In message , Szczepan Bialek
writes



"The wire antennas used with crystal receivers are monopole antennas

The words "almost always, almost every time, almost invariably and almost
without exception" are missing.

As crystal receivers are normally used at low frequencies (long and medium
wave), the obvious antenna to use is an end-fed long wire monopole. This,
of course, requires a ground.

However, in principle, you could use a (probably large) dipole, provided
you modified/designed the circuit of the receiver so that it would take a
balanced input (which would probably also be low impedance).

I'm pretty sure that some of the early radar receiving systems used
essentially a dipole antenna feeding a crystal receiver.

You are right:
"A simple rectenna element consists of a dipole antenna with a diode
connected across the dipole elements." And:
"A nantenna is a very small rectenna the size of a light wave, fabricated
using nanotechnology, which acts as an "antenna" for light,"

Each rectenna arm (or dipole element) must be shorter then 1/4 WL.

But: "Where the electrons come from?
S*

The same as any other antenna; they are always in the conductor and don't
"come" from anywhere.

The voltage developed at the antenna terminals causes the electrons in
the conductors to move.

You are an ignorant, babbling, ineducable idiot who knows absolutely
NOTHING about how anything works.

An antenna is a device that converts the AC electrical energy at it's
teminals into electromagnetic energy which radiates from the antenna
and also coverts the electromagnetic energy which antenna intercepts
into AC electrical energy at it's terminals.

How many antennas have you built in your lifetime?

Why do you refuse to answer the question?

Is it because you have built zero antennas and you are trying to say all
the people that have successfully built hundreds that they are all wrong
and you don't want to admit you are an ignorant, inducable, idiot?

Why can't you obtain and read a university level textbook on anything
in any language?

Is it because you are too stupid to be able to understand the material?

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:


I was asking on the speed of electrons in the conductor.

No you were babbling about electrons jumping off the end of the antenna
yet again.

You have also been told many times that the speed of the electrons in the
conductor is less than a slow crawl.

The average speed.
The circuit with an antenna was named "open circuit" before Maxwell.
Maxwell discovered that the current is "prolongated" in the insulator
(displacement current) so the all circuits are "closed".
So at the bonduary the electrons must jump off. And come back.
In each textbooks is wrote that electrons jump off from a conductor and come
back.
But sometimes this phenomena is not symmetric.

You still have not explained how it is possible that the behaviour
is not symmetric and still there is no nonlinearity in the antenna.

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

On 7/25/2012 11:26 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:

Good afternoon Szczepan. I see that, after several weeks and lots of
postings, you still do not understand the difference between a monopole
and a dipole. Please also note the phrase "behaves as".

"behaves as"means that radiate the same as the real dipole.

"I see that, after several weeks and lots of postings, you still do not
understand the difference between the Hertz dipole and Marconi antenna."

Kindest regards,
S*

As I've said before - "What a maroon!"

He don't get it. Or he's a troll.

It matters little, you all keep feeding him.

Stop.

tom
K0TAR

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
.. .

"The wire antennas used with crystal receivers are monopole antennas which
develop their output voltage with respect to ground. They require a return
circuit connected to ground (earth) so that the current from the antenna,
after passing through the receiver, can flow into the ground."

I had a crystal radio & the antenna was a piece of wire hanging out of it &
the radio was built in a wooden box & I could listen to it on the second
floor of a wooden building & sitting on a wooden chair. no connection to the
ground (earth) as you say is required & the station I listened to was a
daytime station located about 50 miles away...How did it work & no
connection to the ground (earth) as you say is required & no battery power &
the crystal had a cat wisker for tuning...

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

"Howard K0ACF" napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...

"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
.. .

"The wire antennas used with crystal receivers are monopole antennas
which develop their output voltage with respect to ground. They require a
return circuit connected to ground (earth) so that the current from the
antenna, after passing through the receiver, can flow into the ground."

I had a crystal radio & the antenna was a piece of wire hanging out of it
& the radio was built in a wooden box & I could listen to it on the second
floor of a wooden building & sitting on a wooden chair. no connection to
the ground (earth) as you say is required & the station I listened to was
a daytime station located about 50 miles away...How did it work & no
connection to the ground (earth) as you say is required & no battery power
& the crystal had a cat wisker for tuning...

Ian wrote:
"Normally there is a tuned circuit at the input, which consists of a
coil and capacitor in parallel. The DC flows through the coil.

At the output there either is a high-impedance magnetic headphone,
which conducts DC through its coil, or a crystal headphone with a
resistor in parallel for the DC path."

Next the DC flows into "ground":
"The use of the term ground (or earth) is so common in electrical and
electronics applications that circuits in portable electronic devices such
as cell phones and media players as well as circuits in vehicles such as
ships, aircraft, and spacecraft may be spoken of as having a "ground"
connection without any actual connection to the Earth. This is usually a
large conductor attached to one side of the power supply (such as the
"ground plane" on a printed circuit board) which serves as the common return
path for current from many different components in the circuit." From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_(electricity)

Each charged body (conductor and insulator) losts the charge (leakage) with
time.

Add the additional real ground and tell us the results.
S*

UK earthling - was: Dipole-2 different wire sizes?
 

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"Howard K0ACF" napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...

"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
.. .

"The wire antennas used with crystal receivers are monopole antennas
which develop their output voltage with respect to ground. They require a
return circuit connected to ground (earth) so that the current from the
antenna, after passing through the receiver, can flow into the ground."

I had a crystal radio & the antenna was a piece of wire hanging out of it
& the radio was built in a wooden box & I could listen to it on the second
floor of a wooden building & sitting on a wooden chair. no connection to
the ground (earth) as you say is required & the station I listened to was
a daytime station located about 50 miles away...How did it work & no
connection to the ground (earth) as you say is required & no battery power
& the crystal had a cat wisker for tuning...

Ian wrote:
"Normally there is a tuned circuit at the input, which consists of a
coil and capacitor in parallel. The DC flows through the coil.

At the output there either is a high-impedance magnetic headphone,
which conducts DC through its coil, or a crystal headphone with a
resistor in parallel for the DC path."

Next the DC flows into "ground":

NO NO NO NO NO!!!!

The DC flows in a circle inside the receiver!!!

When you see the schematic diagram of a working crystal receiver,
you can make a trip trough the diode, through other components in
the receiver, all conducting DC, back to the the point where you
started at the diode.

This path must exist and this is where the DC flows.
When there is no such path, a DC voltage equal to the peak value
of the HF voltage will develop across the diode, the diode will
no longer conduct, and there is no more rectification. Hence the
receiver will not work.

This is not related to "ground". There must be HF voltage at
the input of the receiver, but it is not important if it is between
a monopole antenna and ground or between the poles of a dipole.

You can even make a crystal receiver with a ferrite rod as an
antenna, which will operate without any ground.