Thanks guys - I found the answer this morning as soon as I looked at the picture of one on the web site...

The seller of the antenna was dead - I couldn't ask him any questions.

His son - was only interested in the money from the sale and couldn't tell me anything because he wasn't a ham like his dad.

The antenna was a 6 meter antenna ( AR -6 ) - hence this antenna would need to be about 224 inches long to work on 11 meters - not 9'

Trying to make a 1/2 wave antenna work on a quarter wave size throws everything off balance.

11'6 - did show a match, with a 2:1 SWR on 11 meters..
But the reactive and inductive are probably all wrong...

This means I need to add another 7' to the antenna to get it to work on 27.200 MHz...
( 224 inches long )...

All I would need to do is figure out how long to make the stub match and I would be set!

For some reason ( a 6 meter antenna will receive a little and talk a little on 10 meters - ok) and will tune up on 10 meters if it is the right length and if a internal antenna tuner is used.

It doesn't mean that it is resonant - it just means that it will tune up and work a little with the transceiver.

For some reason the 6 meter Ringo - ( if not properly adjusted in length ) will not transmit on 6 meters - it is a (600 KHz) only antenna - not very broad banded...

When I tried it at my house on 50.125 MHz and 52.900 Mhz - it would not tune with my internal tuner in my Kenwood TS 590 - the transceiver tuner said (bad match) in CW...
It sounds like someone shuffling cards when it is running...

But it would tune just fine on 10 meters - 28.400 - so I figured it was a 10 meter antenna...
I didn't get the instructions with the antenna - and I didn't look online to see which model it was.... That was my fault...

It makes a real good dummy load though...

Thanks guys..

A Horizontal Dipole won't work at this location - because the op wants to talk to truck drivers and his neighbors and the mis match between horizontal and vertical would be so much he might as well not put anything up and just hold the coax with 3 watts transmit power...

On 9/5/2012 10:01 AM, Channel Jumper wrote:

This means I need to add another 7' to the antenna to get it to work on
27.200 MHz...

All I would need to do is figure out how long to make the stub match and
I would be set!

About 16.5-17 inches long with coax that has a .66 VF.
It's not too critical.
I'm not sure if the 6m ringo has a large enough gamma loop..
Maybe, if you used most of it.. If it won't match, you could
make a larger loop from copper tubing.
I make the loops from the tubing, then I hammer down the ends
of the tubing so they are flat, and then drill the holes in
the flat part so it can be attached to the mounting hardware.
With a little tweaking of the tap location, you should be able
to get a near perfect match. Don't bother trying to trim the
coax cap.. It's not that critical.. For most 10m half waves,
appx 50 pf is the usual value used. And that cap is actually
optional.. Note that the 6m version did not use a coax cap.
But I've always used one on the 10m ringos I've built.
I think it makes the tuning a little less touchy.

On 9/5/2012 4:17 PM, NM5K speculated:

About 16.5-17 inches long with coax that has a .66 VF.
It's not too critical.

Hummm.. Actually, being as the coax is used for capacitance,
the pf per foot would probably be more pertinent than the VF..
Seems like RG-8 is about 26 pf per foot??? I fergot..
And am too lazy to look it up.. :/
But like I say, it's not critical at all.. You could probably
be an inch off either way, and notice little difference in
tuning.

I cannot imagine what your problem is with the 2 meter CushCraft Ringo
Ranger. I have had the same one in service off and on since the late
70's. Easy to mount, easy to match, physically durable, priced real
close to the cost of the aluminum. The J-Pole is popular now days but
is not near the performer that the Ringo is. I have both! The Ringo on
a tower is not a good idea because it brings up too many repeaters on
a given frequency. Bad operating manners!
As far as the 12 element CushCraft Yagis are concerned I have a 440 &
2 M models and have found them to work just like the modeling programs
indicate. There will be a "lump" on the pattern that is not shown in
the model, presumably radiation from the Gamma match.

There are ways to improve on CushCraft products (Stainless Hardware!)
but in the long haul, you generally get your moneys worth.

I am sorry you have had a bad experience with the Ringo but I don't
think you really explained your problems.

A little more information would be a big help. There are a lot of
really smart and helpful guys lurking here who have been very generous
to me over the years.

Please back up & try again...

On Wed, 5 Sep 2012 15:01:02 +0000, Channel Jumper
wrote:


Thanks guys - I found the answer this morning as soon as I looked at the
picture of one on the web site...

The seller of the antenna was dead - I couldn't ask him any questions.

His son - was only interested in the money from the sale and couldn't
tell me anything because he wasn't a ham like his dad.

The antenna was a 6 meter antenna - hence this antenna would need to be
about 224 inches long to work on 10 meters - not 9'

How ever - 138 inches divided by two would be 69 inches which would show
some kind of match - but not the one desired.

5'9 x 2 = 11'6 which did show a match with a 2:1 SWR

This means I need to add another 7' to the antenna to get it to work on
27.200 MHz...

All I would need to do is figure out how long to make the stub match and
I would be set!

For some reason a 6 meter antenna will receive on 10 meters - ok and
will tune up on 10 meters if it is the right length and if a antenna
tuner is used.

For some reason the 6 meter Ringo - if not properly adjusted will not
transmit on 6 meters - it is a 1 MHz only antenna - not very broad
banded...

When I tried it at my house on 50.125 MHz and 52.900 Mhz - it would not
tune with my internal tuner in my Kenwood TS 590 - said bad match...

But it would tune just fine on 10 meters - 28.400 - so I figured it was
a 10 meter antenna... I didn't get the instructions with the antenna -
and I didn't look online to see which model it was.... That was my
fault...

Makes a real good dummy load though...

Thanks guys..
John Ferrell W8CCW

In article ,
John Ferrell wrote:

I cannot imagine what your problem is with the 2 meter CushCraft Ringo
Ranger. I have had the same one in service off and on since the late
70's. Easy to mount, easy to match, physically durable, priced real
close to the cost of the aluminum. The J-Pole is popular now days but
is not near the performer that the Ringo is. I have both! The Ringo on
a tower is not a good idea because it brings up too many repeaters on
a given frequency. Bad operating manners!
As far as the 12 element CushCraft Yagis are concerned I have a 440 &
2 M models and have found them to work just like the modeling programs
indicate. There will be a "lump" on the pattern that is not shown in
the model, presumably radiation from the Gamma match.

As I understand it, the basic Ringo antenna is a half-wave, end-fed
vertical dipole. A gamma loop at the bottom serves as the impedance
matching element.

The basic J-pole is fundamentally quite similar... it's a half-wave
vertical dipole, end-fed. The common versions of J-pole use one or
another variant of a shorted quarter-wave stub section as an impedance
match.

These two antenna types should, in principle, have very similar
radiation patterns (they're both half-wave radiators) and can have
similar problems with pattern-disturbing "RF on the mast" and "RF on
the feedline" (they're often grounded to the mast, and fed from a
50-ohm feedline without a choke). In some installations, the "RF
where you don't want it" condition could cause the antenna's pattern
to squint in directions where it doesn't do you all that much good,
and have a weaker signal directly out towards the horizon where most
of the repeaters probably are. In other installations (where the
feedline or mast presents a high or highly reactive impedance) you
wouldn't notice any problem.

The Ringo Ranger is a higher-gain antenna, with two vertically-stacked
radiating sections and a phasing stub between them. It looks to me as
if the two sections are 5/8 wavelength or a bit more. You'd get
several dB more gain towards the horizon with this configuration, than
you would get from a J-pole or an original Ringo.

The Ringo Ranger has no decoupling from the mast or feedline, and can
suffer from the same sort of pattern-squint as the Ringo and J-pole.

The Ringo Ranger II adds a decoupling section (a length of feedline
and a set of decoupling radials) which is supposed to prevent this
problem, and it would probably have the cleanest and sharpest
towards-the-horizon pattern of any of these antennas.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

Thank You / Thank You / Thank YOU VERY MUCH!

I can make a loop out of some copper tube and I can use a old piece of RG 8 for the stub match and I have enough aluminum tube from another Ringo to make the mast 18' long.....

All I need to do now is take down what I have and modify it and put it back up.

THANK YOU!

Dummy ME! - I could have bought a used antenna analyzer at a hamfest today for $50.00 - MFJ that had no digital display and no UHF and NO POWER SUPPLY and no instructions.

I was told that I could have used it with a transceiver, turn the knob until it zero beats the frequency of the receiver and then use it to tune the antenna.

I probably messed up!

Then again - if it was $50.00 and didn't work and could not be repaired - it would have been $50.00 that could have been applied towards another antenna.

This is what happens when you try to help someone and when you try to give something away to a friend..
It always happens that something is not right and that when it does not work as intended - even if several years later - I end up being the bad guy.

In fact - the Ringo listens real well - it just doesn't transmit - because the impedance / reactance is wrong.

I could have bought a good antenna analyzer last year for $85.00 and did not because a friend of mine wanted it and bought it for $65.00

I'm learning that amateur radio is a lot like stock car racing.
The only friends you have is the ones you brought to the track with you!
Once the Green flag falls - all agreements are off and it is a free for all.

On 9/9/2012 7:36 PM, Channel Jumper wrote:

I could have bought a good antenna analyzer last year for $85.00 and did
not because a friend of mine wanted it and bought it for $65.00

I think they are overrated.. I've never needed or owned one so far..

I would agree with you - except for the fact that it does make life a lot easier when you are trying to get a antenna to work and you do not know what is wrong..

With a digital display it is as simple as putting the antenna together on the ground, sticking it on a pole someplace, using a feed line that is as short as possible - less then 1/4 wavelength is desireable when possible - I know at higher frequencies this is hard to do.

Turning on the Analyzer and reading the input.

Using a old style analyzer isn't as simple when you do not know the exact frequency you are tuning to...
So in the long run - I probably saved myself $40 - $50.00

A stub match question I forgot to ask is - should the end of the stub match at 1' 8 inches long be shorted on the end or open...

The web calculator I used said the Stub would be short if it was shorted and would be long if it was not - but that if it was not shorted you run the risk of the stub trying to radiate the power applied...

http://www.qsl.net/va3iul/Impedance_...e_Matching.pdf

Another broadband matching approach may use a tapered line transformer with continuously varying
characteristic impedance along its length (characteristic impedance varies continuously in a smooth
fashion).
In this case, the design obtains reflection coefficients lower than a specified tolerance at frequencies
exceeding a minimum value.
· The required length of the taper section should be about 0.5 to 1.5 of wavelength.
A different narrow-band approach involves the insertion of a shunt imaginary admittance on the line.
Often, the admittance is realized with a section (or stub) of transmission line and the technique is
commonly known as stub matching. The end of the stub line is short-circuited or open-circuited, in
order to realize an imaginary admittance.
A second narrow-band example involves the insertion of series impedance (stub) along the line.

In article , NM5K wrote:

On 9/9/2012 7:36 PM, Channel Jumper wrote:

I could have bought a good antenna analyzer last year for $85.00 and did
not because a friend of mine wanted it and bought it for $65.00

I think they are overrated.. I've never needed or owned one so far..

I had a plain Two Meter Ringo back in the 70s, before they came out with
the "Ranger" versions. It worked well, but gain claimed was probably
DBi rather than DBd.

I also have three generations of MFJ antenna analyzers. I don't know if
they are overrated, but they are very handy. They save a lot of time
compared to using a transmitter and SWR bridge to set up an antenna.

As I understand it, they work just like the typical "reflectometer" SWR
bridge where you set forward power to full scale and read reflected
power on an SWR scale. Their VFO has its output held constant over the
frequency range, calibrated for the equivalent of the SWR bridge's full
scale setting.

The early version Channel Jumper mentioned, probably had a frequency
scale printed on the face. For critical settings, either a counter or a
calibrated receiver would be needed. Later versions have a counter
built-in, and the latest also displays antenna data on the LCD display.

Fred
K4DII