"Rob" wrote in message
...
One ham said when he did he could tell the differance. I just don't see
that going from about .4 db or less of loss to .15 db of loss on 80
meters
is going to be noticed.

But what when he was working on 70 centimeters instead of 80 meters?
Then it would be a large difference.

I should have made it clear that this is for 80 meters only, no higher band.
Also he did not say what kind of differance he noticed, just that he did.

Most of my work is 2 meters and higher and good transmission there is a
must. I just don't have the operating time on the low bands to know if that
extra .2 db would make any diffreance there. That is 2/10 of a db.

Ralph Mowery wrote:

"Rob" wrote in message
...
One ham said when he did he could tell the differance. I just don't see
that going from about .4 db or less of loss to .15 db of loss on 80
meters
is going to be noticed.

But what when he was working on 70 centimeters instead of 80 meters?
Then it would be a large difference.

I should have made it clear that this is for 80 meters only, no higher band.
Also he did not say what kind of differance he noticed, just that he did.

Most of my work is 2 meters and higher and good transmission there is a
must. I just don't have the operating time on the low bands to know if that
extra .2 db would make any diffreance there. That is 2/10 of a db.

On 70 centimeters that would not make any difference either, but on 70
the difference is more than that.

On 80 meters you should use a 2x20m dipole with open line feeder.

Coax is only good for driving an unbalanced 50 ohm load, which is
practical on VHF and above but not on HF bands where you are going to
use a tuner.

"Rob" wrote in message
...
Most of my work is 2 meters and higher and good transmission there is a
must. I just don't have the operating time on the low bands to know if
that
extra .2 db would make any diffreance there. That is 2/10 of a db.

On 70 centimeters that would not make any difference either, but on 70
the difference is more than that.

On 80 meters you should use a 2x20m dipole with open line feeder.

Coax is only good for driving an unbalanced 50 ohm load, which is
practical on VHF and above but not on HF bands where you are going to
use a tuner.

I don't think .2 db would be detected unless maybe moon bounce or very weak
signals with special equipment. I am thinking more of the average ham
station. Yes , the losses go up as you go higher in frequency. Don't
recall without looking it up, but around 2 meters is is probalby slightly
under 1 db for the hardline and around 3 db for the rg-213 which is getting
into the noticable range.

For myself, I am lucky have up antennas that are reasonable for my type of
casual operation. I don't go at it hot and heavy, just like to chat on the
low bands. I have a 3 element triband at 60 feet , and OCF (home built
Carolina Windom about 125 feet long at 50 feet) for 80-10 and it will work
the 18 and 24 mhz bands good enough for me with a tuner. Also a 80 meter
dipole. All of this is fed with some Davis BuryFlex which is similar to
LMR-400 with a stranded center conductor that is 100 feet long for each
antenna.

Ralph Mowery wrote:

"Rob" wrote in message
...
One ham said when he did he could tell the differance. I just don't see
that going from about .4 db or less of loss to .15 db of loss on 80
meters
is going to be noticed.

But what when he was working on 70 centimeters instead of 80 meters?
Then it would be a large difference.

I should have made it clear that this is for 80 meters only, no higher band.
Also he did not say what kind of differance he noticed, just that he did.

If changing from RG213 to hardline made any real difference at 80M, then
the RG213 was bad and needed replacing.

Very few hams have anything in their shack that can detect differnces of
a fraction of a db.

The only advantage to hardline at HF that I can think of is that good
hardline will likely outlive you and hence not require replacing in your
lifetime.


--
Jim Pennino

El 27-06-14 18:30, Ralph Mowery escribió:

wrote in message
...
One ham said when he did he could tell the differance. I just don't see
that going from about .4 db or less of loss to .15 db of loss on 80
meters
is going to be noticed.

But what when he was working on 70 centimeters instead of 80 meters?
Then it would be a large difference.

I should have made it clear that this is for 80 meters only, no higher band.
Also he did not say what kind of differance he noticed, just that he did.

Most of my work is 2 meters and higher and good transmission there is a
must. I just don't have the operating time on the low bands to know if that
extra .2 db would make any diffreance there. That is 2/10 of a db.



Variation in propagation conditions at HF are in the tens of dB's
(depending on wave and particle radiation from our sun). So you will
never notice 0.2 dB.

Besides the VSWR issue, I can only think of special
applications/situations where screening is of prime importance. For
this case, screening is the only big difference between RG213 and
hardline.

--
Wim
PA3DJS
Please remove abc first in case of PM

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
m...


"Rob" wrote in message
...
One ham said when he did he could tell the differance. I just don't see
that going from about .4 db or less of loss to .15 db of loss on 80
meters
is going to be noticed.

But what when he was working on 70 centimeters instead of 80 meters?
Then it would be a large difference.

I should have made it clear that this is for 80 meters only, no higher band.
Also he did not say what kind of differance he noticed, just that he did.

Most of my work is 2 meters and higher and good transmission there is a
must. I just don't have the operating time on the low bands to know if that
extra .2 db would make any diffreance there. That is 2/10 of a db.
================================================== ========

Yes. It takes 6dB to make a 1 S-unit change. Almost all the time at 80m,
the atmospheric noise is much stronger than the receiver's thermal noise, so
the ability of the other guy to deliver enough signal power to you to be
louder than the atmospherics is the key. He controls that, not you.

On transmit, I suppose every dB counts, considering you're competing with
atmospherics for the other guy's ear. Sort of the inverse of the above.

"Sal"