On 11/15/2014 10:51 PM, Izur Kockenhan wrote:
manual calculation of a horizontal Lambda/2-dipol over perfect ground in
height of Lambda/2

www.leobaumann.de/horDipolOPG.pdf

Izur Kockenhan



You're arguing with an idiot. He thinks the charts he copies/pastes are
the last word and apply to all dipoles.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

On Sat, 15 Nov 2014 21:38:10 -0000, wrote:

The following shows the effect on elevation pattern for a 1/2 wave
dipole antenna over ground at various heights for perfect, very good,
average, and extremely ground.

The important value to note is the elevation angle for the main lobe.

Generally for DX an elevation angle at or below 30 degrees is desirable
and for NVIS an angle above 60 degrees.

This might help:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/horizontal-dipole/

Animated GIF of the horizontal 1/2 wave dipole over a "moderate"
ground at various heights:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/horizontal-dipole/horiz-dipole.gif
There's a big problem with the GIF. I couldn't convince 4NEC2 to fix
the scale on the gain plot. So, it changes in the middle of the
annimation. The outer ring is +5dBi for 0.1 to 0.3 wavelengths
height, and +10dBi for the others. I'll try to fix that later.

NEC deck for 4NEC2:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/horizontal-dipole/Dipole.nec


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 15 Nov 2014 21:38:10 -0000, wrote:

The following shows the effect on elevation pattern for a 1/2 wave
dipole antenna over ground at various heights for perfect, very good,
average, and extremely ground.

The important value to note is the elevation angle for the main lobe.

Generally for DX an elevation angle at or below 30 degrees is desirable
and for NVIS an angle above 60 degrees.

This might help:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/horizontal-dipole/

Animated GIF of the horizontal 1/2 wave dipole over a "moderate"
ground at various heights:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/horizontal-dipole/horiz-dipole.gif
There's a big problem with the GIF. I couldn't convince 4NEC2 to fix
the scale on the gain plot. So, it changes in the middle of the
annimation. The outer ring is +5dBi for 0.1 to 0.3 wavelengths
height, and +10dBi for the others. I'll try to fix that later.

NEC deck for 4NEC2:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/horizontal-dipole/Dipole.nec


Yeah, graphs are better than tables of data any day.

--
Jim Pennino

wrote in message ...

The following shows the effect on elevation pattern for a 1/2 wave
dipole antenna over ground at various heights for perfect, very good,
average, and extremely ground.

The important value to note is the elevation angle for the main lobe.

snip

Perfect V good Avg Ext poor
Height gain @ elev gain @ elev gain @ elev gain @ elev
0.10 8.6 90 6.3 90 4.4 90 3.1 90
0.15 8.4 90 7.1 90 5.8 90 4.3 90

I'm having trouble wading through the data, probably because of column
headings. Let's take the first line.

0.10 Would be the height
I get lost after that.
Is 8.6 the gain over perfect ground, 6.3 over good, etc.
What are the 90's?

Wayne
W5GIE/6

Wayne wrote:


wrote in message ...

The following shows the effect on elevation pattern for a 1/2 wave
dipole antenna over ground at various heights for perfect, very good,
average, and extremely ground.

The important value to note is the elevation angle for the main lobe.

snip

Perfect V good Avg Ext poor
Height gain @ elev gain @ elev gain @ elev gain @ elev
0.10 8.6 90 6.3 90 4.4 90 3.1 90
0.15 8.4 90 7.1 90 5.8 90 4.3 90

I'm having trouble wading through the data, probably because of column
headings. Let's take the first line.

0.10 Would be the height
I get lost after that.
Is 8.6 the gain over perfect ground, 6.3 over good, etc.
What are the 90's?

Wayne
W5GIE/6

Height is the height in wavelengths.

gain is the gain of the main lobe.

@ elev is the elevation angle of the main lobe; 90 means straight up.

And there are three sets for perfect, very good, average, and extremely
poor ground.

It all lines up in ASCII; if the spacing is screwed up, you are likely
viewing it as HTML.



--
Jim Pennino

wrote in message ...

Wayne wrote:


wrote in message ...

The following shows the effect on elevation pattern for a 1/2 wave
dipole antenna over ground at various heights for perfect, very good,
average, and extremely ground.

The important value to note is the elevation angle for the main lobe.

snip

Perfect V good Avg Ext poor
Height gain @ elev gain @ elev gain @ elev gain @ elev
0.10 8.6 90 6.3 90 4.4 90 3.1 90
0.15 8.4 90 7.1 90 5.8 90 4.3 90

I'm having trouble wading through the data, probably because of column
headings. Let's take the first line.

0.10 Would be the height
I get lost after that.
Is 8.6 the gain over perfect ground, 6.3 over good, etc.
What are the 90's?

Wayne
W5GIE/6

# Height is the height in wavelengths.

# gain is the gain of the main lobe.

# @ elev is the elevation angle of the main lobe; 90 means straight up.

# And there are three sets for perfect, very good, average, and extremely
# poor ground.

# It all lines up in ASCII; if the spacing is screwed up, you are likely
# viewing it as HTML.

Not using HTML, but your explanation clears it up.
Thanks.

On 2014-11-16 18:33:16 +0000, said:


It all lines up in ASCII; if the spacing is screwed up, you are likely
viewing it as HTML.


Or a proportional font in plain text. They should try a fixed width font.

--

Percy Picacity

On Sun, 16 Nov 2014 18:33:16 -0000, wrote:

It all lines up in ASCII; if the spacing is screwed up, you are likely
viewing it as HTML.

Your table has tabs between the columns, which shows up nicely in
readers that convert tabs to 8 character columns, but blows up on
readers that convert tabs to 1 or 4 character columns.

The message header on Wayne's message shows:
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 15.4.3555.308
which is probably the problem.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 16 Nov 2014 18:33:16 -0000, wrote:

It all lines up in ASCII; if the spacing is screwed up, you are likely
viewing it as HTML.

Your table has tabs between the columns, which shows up nicely in
readers that convert tabs to 8 character columns, but blows up on
readers that convert tabs to 1 or 4 character columns.

The message header on Wayne's message shows:
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 15.4.3555.308
which is probably the problem.

Life was simpler when everyone was using a VT100 to read USENET.


--
Jim Pennino

On Sun, 16 Nov 2014 23:53:50 -0000, wrote:

Life was simpler when everyone was using a VT100 to read USENET.

Simpler? Surely, you jest. I've never used a real vt100/vt102 or
ANSI terminal for anything more than a door stop, but have had to deal
with plenty of emulators. It wasn't easy emulating DEC's moving
target escape sequences, that would change with every model and
revision. Remember vttest?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vttest
Literally everything I tried failed at least one part of the test,
including the original DEC terminals. Then, Unix with TERMCAP and
TERMINFO arrived, at which point I gave up trying to emulate
vt100/vt102 terminals, and moved on to broken ANSI X3.64 attempts with
proprietary "enhancements":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSI_escape_code
http://www.markcrocker.com/rexxtipsntricks/rxtt28.2.0777.html
I thought I was finally free of the emulation nightmares, when I was
introduced to X-terminals and xterm, which reset the learning curve
over by adding a display manager, desktop manager, and xterm to the
emulation mess. Can't win. As soon as something finally works, it's
replaced immediately by something that doesn't.

At no time during all these "improvements" did any of the terminal
servers, emulators, or kludges ever properly deal with 2,4,8 character
tab indents. Extra credit to the C programmers who would format their
code in "pretty type", but didn't feel it necessary to put opposing
curly braces in the same column, which would have made tab expansion
easy. Oh yeah... setting tab stops beyond the right wrap margin
usually produced "unexpected results".

At this time, I'm using Forte Agent to read usenet news. Among the
options and settings can be found a myriad of kludges, tricks,
work-around's, and outright butchery that fixes many of the
aforementioned abomination and more, all of which were probably based
on the mistakes found in the original vt100/vt102.

http://i2.wp.com/rundiabetes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/vt100-logo.jpg
That's the Vermont 100 mile ride/run for diabetes.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558