In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Spike wrote:
On 07/12/2015 01:17, wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Spike wrote:
On 06/12/2015 18:29, wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Spike wrote:
On 06/12/2015 00:06, wrote:

snip

Your problem, or at least one of them, is that your first response
included this statement:

"Sky wave propagation doesn't happen at those frequencies for all practical
purposes."

I let this slide in the interests of discussion, but seeing as you wish
to nit-pick and be rude, we'll revisit this by my asking you what you
meant, as you are implying that there is in fact some form of skywave at
these low-MF Aeronautical beacon frequencies. Please explain.

I see you finally read the link so now you think you are going to sharp
shoot the original post.

BTW, "for all practical purposes" is synonymous with "unlikely to ever
happen".

You don't seem to know whether or not sky-wave exists at these
frequencies. 'Practically', sky-wave would be unreliable for NDB
working, but that doesn't mean to say sky-waves don't exist. When you
make up your mind about the topic, let me know what your answer is. To
help you, there is a shed-load of information out there on MF sky-wave
propagation.

The term is "skywave" and it is not known to happen below 500 kHz.

While doing that, please also explain what you think it is that causes
the claimed variations in the ground wave than enable DX beacon hunters
to hear such stations at very long ranges.

Search for "ground wave propagation" and read up on it.

I can't take that from someone who doesn't know that sky-wave exists at MF.

Once again, the term is "skywave".

Define MF; there is no exact frequency where skywave ceases to exist, but
it has not been observed below 500 kHz. That does not mean that under
some extreme ionospheric conditions is can not happen, it means no one
has ever seen it happen.

Your variable ground-wave is a hoot.

The term is "ground wave" and ALL propagation modes are variable due
to many reasons; a heavy rainstorm will effect ground wave propagation
as it changes the ground conductivity.

The relevant quotes are he

Sky wave propagation doesn't happen at those frequencies for all practical purposes.

Tell that to the beacon DX hunters.

That is ground wave propagation; I'd give you a link but you obviously
prefer to pull crap out of your ass to reading links.

You're a troll, aren't you?

Says someone that can not even use the correct terms.

Jeff Liebermann (to whom thanks are due) has just blown you out of the
water with some indications of how important the D layer is to
propagation of signals over a wide band of frequencies. HTH

TTFN

Nope, Jeff and I are having a discussion.

Note that Jeff uses correct terms and does NOT pull crap out of his ass.




--
Jim Pennino

On 07/12/2015 19:09, wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Spike wrote:

Jeff Liebermann (to whom thanks are due) has just blown you out of the
water with some indications of how important the D layer is to
propagation of signals over a wide band of frequencies. HTH

TTFN

Nope, Jeff and I are having a discussion.

I rather think you're being given a gentle lesson in sky-wave propagation.


--
Spike

"Crime butchers innocence to secure a throne, and innocence struggles
with all its might against the attempts of crime"

- Maximilien Robespierre

In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Spike wrote:
On 07/12/2015 19:09, wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Spike wrote:

Jeff Liebermann (to whom thanks are due) has just blown you out of the
water with some indications of how important the D layer is to
propagation of signals over a wide band of frequencies. HTH

TTFN

Nope, Jeff and I are having a discussion.

I rather think you're being given a gentle lesson in sky-wave propagation.


I rather think you're a troll.


--
Jim Pennino

wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Spike wrote:
On 07/12/2015 19:09, wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Spike wrote:

Jeff Liebermann (to whom thanks are due) has just blown you out of the
water with some indications of how important the D layer is to
propagation of signals over a wide band of frequencies. HTH

TTFN

Nope, Jeff and I are having a discussion.

I rather think you're being given a gentle lesson in sky-wave propagation.


I rather think you're a troll.


He's more of a **** than a troll, Jim. He's all mouth on here but went
through a spell a while ago of being afraid to leave his house because a
couple of young kids on his housing estate made sport of giving him some
backchat.

--
STC // M0TEY // twitter.com/ukradioamateur

In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Jeff Liebermann wrote:

That's why I posted my rant. The idea that VLF signal will reflect or
refract off the D-layer is new to me. I had always assume that
everything with a wavelength longer than the BCB is ground wave.
Apparently not.

In this article there is a nine chart that shows propagation modes versus
frequency with links to explainations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_propagation#Modes


--
Jim Pennino

On 08/12/2015 18:18, wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Spike wrote:
On 07/12/2015 19:09, wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Spike wrote:

Jeff Liebermann (to whom thanks are due) has just blown you out of the
water with some indications of how important the D layer is to
propagation of signals over a wide band of frequencies. HTH

TTFN

Nope, Jeff and I are having a discussion.

I rather think you're being given a gentle lesson in sky-wave propagation.

I rather think you're a troll.

I said it first!


--
Spike

"Crime butchers innocence to secure a throne, and innocence struggles
with all its might against the attempts of crime"

- Maximilien Robespierre