Hi,

Have you some experience on the air using a Carolina Windom 40m long
compared to a G5RV 31m (100 ft) long...
I have the experience of G5RV but not the Windom yet.
The objective is using them for local qso but also dx in ssb (according to
their possibilities, thus not up to reach JA from ON or maybe via the
grayline, to see..)

I am going to install both (in NS and EW direction) but I really don't know
which is best or if they are really on par.

The Windom comes with 2 traps (1 per segment, as the standard design), a 6:1
balun ended with a coax. The G5RV is multiband too, without traps and uses a
4:1 balun ended with a 10m ladder line (standard design) , then a coax.
There is this already 2 or 3 hardware differences.

Knowing that one segment of the Windom is shorter, does it impact negatively
the radiation pattern with e.g. more sensitivity to QRM or other "defect"
that G5RV doesn't show ?

NB. I could use HFANT or MutiNEC to simulate that but that required to input
all antenna parameters first to design it before ask the program to simulate
its pattern... a field experiment is faster and welcome ;-)

Thanks in advance

Thierry, ON4SKY

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 17:39:50 +0200, "Thierry"
http://www.astrosurf.com/lombry wrote:
The objective is using them for local qso but also dx in ssb (according to
their possibilities, thus not up to reach JA from ON or maybe via the
grayline, to see..)

Hi Thierry,

One application (local/DX) has to suffer at the expense of the other.
YOU have to choose which application you want as first choice.

I am going to install both (in NS and EW direction) but I really don't know
which is best or if they are really on par.

This is another choice YOU have to make. What do YOU want to do? If
it is grayline, you cannot do this very effectively with a dipole
going North/South.

Even going East/West will not result in the best if you work stations
mostly in a ENE/WNW Great Circle bearing.

You need to use a propagation program like WinVOA to see what design
you need (dipole orientation that is) and then build to that bearing.
If you build two antennas that are crossed (and even if one is Windom
and the other G5RV); then you will have a suitable solution -
somewhere (even if you drive them both and phase them).

There is this already 2 or 3 hardware differences.

These are practical problems of construction, not operational results.

Knowing that one segment of the Windom is shorter, does it impact negatively
the radiation pattern with e.g. more sensitivity to QRM or other "defect"
that G5RV doesn't show ?

Short answer: NO. Long answer: Yes.

a field experiment is faster and welcome ;-)

Only if we happen to be a neighbor - quel dommage.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 16:05:39 GMT, Richard Clark wrote:

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 17:39:50 +0200, "Thierry"
http://www.astrosurf.com/lombry wrote:
The objective is using them for local qso but also dx in ssb (according to
their possibilities, thus not up to reach JA from ON or maybe via the
grayline, to see..)

Hi Thierry,

One application (local/DX) has to suffer at the expense of the other.
YOU have to choose which application you want as first choice.

I am going to install both (in NS and EW direction) but I really don't know
which is best or if they are really on par.

This is another choice YOU have to make. What do YOU want to do? If
it is grayline, you cannot do this very effectively with a dipole
going North/South.

Even going East/West will not result in the best if you work stations
mostly in a ENE/WNW Great Circle bearing.

You need to use a propagation program like WinVOA to see what design
you need (dipole orientation that is) and then build to that bearing.
If you build two antennas that are crossed (and even if one is Windom
and the other G5RV); then you will have a suitable solution -
somewhere (even if you drive them both and phase them).

There is this already 2 or 3 hardware differences.

These are practical problems of construction, not operational results.

Knowing that one segment of the Windom is shorter, does it impact negatively
the radiation pattern with e.g. more sensitivity to QRM or other "defect"
that G5RV doesn't show ?

Short answer: NO. Long answer: Yes.

a field experiment is faster and welcome ;-)

Only if we happen to be a neighbor - quel dommage.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Hi Thierry,

If I may put in my two-cents worth, a dipole is a dipole. The G5RV is a dipole
and the Caroling Windom is a dipole. Except for their use on harmonically
ralated bands the radiation is the same for each. Any different radiation
pattern on harmonically related bands results only from a difference in lengths
of the dipoles. The dipole length of the traditional G5RV is 102 feet. If the
Windom is cut for some longer length the pattern will be somehwhat different on
the higher harmonic bands, but the difference will be rather insignificant.

Walt, W2DU

Walter Maxwell wrote:
If I may put in my two-cents worth, a dipole is a dipole. The G5RV is a dipole
and the Caroling Windom is a dipole.

Hi Walt, I don't know if you know or not, but the Carolina Windom
is designed for the vertical section to radiate so it has a
radiation pattern which is a combination of a dipole and a vertical.
--
73, Cecil, W5DXP


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"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
Walter Maxwell wrote:
If I may put in my two-cents worth, a dipole is a dipole. The G5RV is a
dipole
and the Caroling Windom is a dipole.

Hi Walt, I don't know if you know or not, but the Carolina Windom
is designed for the vertical section to radiate so it has a
radiation pattern which is a combination of a dipole and a vertical.


Indeed, all the interest of the thing..., hence my question.
But I wonder also about the QRM pick-up along this vertical segment...
I will have the answer in two weeks.

Thierry, ON4SKY

--
73, Cecil, W5DXP


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I have used 160M Carolina windoms for the past 5 years or so and have
found them to be really good performers. The higher you can get the
vertical element off the ground the better (I have had good results
with it only 20' off the gorund....Radioworks recommends more). I have
never modeled it, nor had experience with G5RV, but compared to a half
wave dipole at similar height, my "impression" is that it performs at
least as well, probably better, plus multiband. Beward you will need
to use a tuner with it, and if you are running legal limit, be careful
of your SWR's as you can burn out the balun or RF choke (they are not
traps). There has been a lot of debate about this antenna, but I can
tell you the 160M version works quite well on all bandsl.
GL es 73
Dan (k0dan)

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 15:35:28 +0200, "Thierry"
http://www.astrosurf.com/lombry wrote:


"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
Walter Maxwell wrote:
If I may put in my two-cents worth, a dipole is a dipole. The G5RV is a
dipole
and the Caroling Windom is a dipole.

Hi Walt, I don't know if you know or not, but the Carolina Windom
is designed for the vertical section to radiate so it has a
radiation pattern which is a combination of a dipole and a vertical.


Indeed, all the interest of the thing..., hence my question.
But I wonder also about the QRM pick-up along this vertical segment...
I will have the answer in two weeks.

Thierry, ON4SKY

--
73, Cecil, W5DXP


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Indeed, all the interest of the thing..., hence my question.
But I wonder also about the QRM pick-up along this vertical segment...
I will have the answer in two weeks.

Thierry, ON4SKY

Why would QRM be a problem ? The beter the antenna the more signal it will
pick up. Maybe you ment QRN (noise) instead of M (undesired radio signals)
?

Thierry wrote:
But I wonder also about the QRM pick-up along this vertical segment...
I will have the answer in two weeks.

It is designed to radiate some vertically polarized energy so it
is also designed to receiver some vertically polarized energy.
That would render the Carolina Windom virtually useless at my QTH.
--
73, Cecil, W5DXP


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"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 17:39:50 +0200, "Thierry"
http://www.astrosurf.com/lombry wrote:
The objective is using them for local qso but also dx in ssb (according
to
their possibilities, thus not up to reach JA from ON or maybe via the
grayline, to see..)

Hi Thierry,

One application (local/DX) has to suffer at the expense of the other.
YOU have to choose which application you want as first choice.

I am going to install both (in NS and EW direction) but I really don't
know
which is best or if they are really on par.

This is another choice YOU have to make. What do YOU want to do? If
it is grayline, you cannot do this very effectively with a dipole
going North/South.

Even going East/West will not result in the best if you work stations
mostly in a ENE/WNW Great Circle bearing.

You need to use a propagation program like WinVOA to see what design
you need (dipole orientation that is) and then build to that bearing.
If you build two antennas that are crossed (and even if one is Windom
and the other G5RV); then you will have a suitable solution -
somewhere (even if you drive them both and phase them).



Good idea, about simulation, I will try to create the windom design in
multiprop or hfant (I know the one of the dipole) and then run the voacap to
see what the matter.
FYI here is the pattern at short distance of a G5RV, 100W, tight EW,
http://www.astrosurf.com/lombry/Radi...p-on-la-12.gif
The windom should be more omnidirectional.

Thierry, ON4SKY

There is this already 2 or 3 hardware differences.

These are practical problems of construction, not operational results.

Knowing that one segment of the Windom is shorter, does it impact
negatively
the radiation pattern with e.g. more sensitivity to QRM or other "defect"
that G5RV doesn't show ?

Short answer: NO. Long answer: Yes.

a field experiment is faster and welcome ;-)

Only if we happen to be a neighbor - quel dommage.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 01:12:30 +0200, "Thierry"
http://www.astrosurf.com/lombry wrote:

FYI here is the pattern at short distance of a G5RV, 100W, tight EW,
http://www.astrosurf.com/lombry/Radi...p-on-la-12.gif

Hi Thierry,

Hmmmm, I can see where the magnetic pole is.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC