"If a dipole falls in a forest and there's no one there to hear it,
does it make a sound?"


No, but makes a lot of QRM... ;-)

Please allow me to apologize in advance, but I can't resist asking:

"If a dipole falls in a forest and there's no one there to hear it,
does it make a sound?"


Yes, the sound of its owner swearing up a blue storm at having to get the *&%$
thing back up over "just the right tree branches"....

Been using a "random" dipole (actually configured in an inverted vee with 50
foot legs) made from insulated house wire, fed with 450 ohm line, hooked to a
little MFJ tuner. QTH is DEEP in the woods and the antenna is VERY close to
trees and actually passes within inches of many leaves/branches. Work mostly
40 CW but every so often will wander around from 80 to 10 CW and SSB. Sure,
I'll never have a "big gun" signal with this antenna, but it works, its cheap
and easy, and I can always find someone to chat with. Once and a while, I even
manage to snag some pretty fair DX.

The only thing I try to avoid is letting the antenna actually touch any thing.

Good luck and good DX

de N3TWN John

"JohnN3TWN" wrote in message
...
Please allow me to apologize in advance, but I can't resist asking:

"If a dipole falls in a forest and there's no one there to hear it,
does it make a sound?"


Yes, the sound of its owner swearing up a blue storm at having to get the
*&%$
thing back up over "just the right tree branches"....

Been using a "random" dipole (actually configured in an inverted vee with
50
foot legs) made from insulated house wire, fed with 450 ohm line, hooked
to a
little MFJ tuner. QTH is DEEP in the woods and the antenna is VERY close
to
trees and actually passes within inches of many leaves/branches. Work
mostly
40 CW but every so often will wander around from 80 to 10 CW and SSB.
Sure,
I'll never have a "big gun" signal with this antenna, but it works, its
cheap
and easy, and I can always find someone to chat with. Once and a while, I
even
manage to snag some pretty fair DX.

The only thing I try to avoid is letting the antenna actually touch any
thing.

Good luck and good DX

de N3TWN John

John
After re-reading your post I must agree.
Wire antennas are cheap and easy.
Significant improvements over wire antennas are expensive and difficult.
73 H., NQ5H

"Mark T. Kennedy" wrote in message
...
i live in a neighborhood where the sight of a half-wave dipole would cause
a riot. however, a portion of my property is heavily wooded.
i could easily hide even a 160m half-wave among the branches and leaves,
leaving it invisible. is this practical? risky? caveat: i'm still
studying for my technician's license so go easy on me :-).

/mark

I have several wire antennas strung between trees, and found that even #14
or #16 wire with black or blue insulation at 50 feet is invisible against
the trees, and almost invisible when viewed against the sky. What sticks out
is the feedline, if it is hanging in the clear. You want that coming down
next to a tree. You really don't want contact between the wire and branches.
However, my 75m antenna goes through branches at one point, and it seems to
be OK. Stay away from white, yellow, or red insulation.

Tam/WB2TT

Mark wrote:
"Is this practical?"

Trees near an antenna cause some loss. It`s hard to quantify in advance,
but in ww-2, the signal corps estimated that hf loss is usually
negligible if horizontal polarization is used (page 241 of 'electrical
communications engineering').

I`ve found that horizontal HF dipoles, directly fed by coax in various
Bolivian Chaco Jungle sites, below the the tree canopy, but not too
close to the trees, communicated well with Cochabamba and La Paz,
Bolivia. So, the dipoles didn`t suffer too much from the trees. The
Signal Corps was right.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI

"Richard Harrison" wrote
Mark wrote:
"Is this practical?"

Trees near an antenna cause some loss. It`s hard to quantify in advance,
but in ww-2, the signal corps estimated that hf loss is usually
negligible if horizontal polarization is used (page 241 of 'electrical
communications engineering').

I`ve found that horizontal HF dipoles, directly fed by coax in various
Bolivian Chaco Jungle sites, below the the tree canopy, but not too
close to the trees, communicated well with Cochabamba and La Paz,
Bolivia. So, the dipoles didn`t suffer too much from the trees. The
Signal Corps was right.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI


Hi Richard, it's not easy to compare your rainforest canopy to loblolly
pines, but at approximately 50' my dipole is well below the pine canopy, and
well surrounded by them. If there is an impact from the pine trees it would
be hard to quantify since the dipole exceeds everyone's expectations for
short and long range performance. We have heard comments that pine-fron
clusters when wet, affect a near field, but that has not been our
experience. Neither does snow, ice or winds. Overall, there appears to be no
effect on the antenna being in fairly close proximity to many tall trees,
and suspended from them.

Best regards,

Jack

Jack Painter wrote:
"Overall, there appears to be no effect on the antenna being in fairly
close proximity to many tall trees, and suspended from them."

That was the Signal Corps conclusion for horizontal polarization at HF.
For vertical polarization, surrounding trees are better energy
absorbers. At VHF and UHF, absorption gets worse and worse as frequency
goes up. Too much foliage is impenetrable at VHF and UHF, regardless of
polarization, humidity, ice, snow and wind.

The Signal Corps advises trying horizontal HF antennas among the trees
to avoid detection by the enemy.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI

"Richard Harrison" wrote in message
...
snip
The U.S.A. was first to produce nuclear weapons and the intercontinental
missles to accurately place them on target.
snip
Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI

And a large and crucial part of the talent pool that developed the bomb and
the ICBM was in the USA because they had literally escaped from Europe. Can
you say Enrico Fermi?
My fellow hams, we're all in this avalanche together.
73
H.
NQ5H

"Richard Harrison" wrote in message
...
Reg, G4FGQ wrote:
"Just another Foreigner without a vote in the forthcoming presidential
election. But which affects me nevertheless."

snip.

Twice in the 20th Century, the U.S.A. answered desparate calls from
Britain and France to send Germany and its allies back to their homes.

snip.
Nor, was it the U.S.A. which partitioned
Palestine. Nor, was it the U.S.A. which promised the Jews a homeland if
they would only support the Allied Cause in both world wars..

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI



Yes,G.B. should be kicked in the butt in declaring war when they were so
broke.
If the jews were not willing to react to Germany then the British should
have stayed put
just like the U.S. as there were no allies at the time, the British were
alone!
If things had happened that way then there would have no been reason
to have an Israel. If there was not an Israel the World would still be
united and the U.N.
would not be torn apart by the U.S. vetoes.
Parts of the World also would not have created a war
against Islam and thousands would still be alive.
If there was no war in Europe maybe the U.S. would have asked for help
against the
' pre emptive' attack, a type of attack that is now the norm.
Richard you have provided good food for thought, something like 'if a nail
was not lost
then a shoe would not have been lost ! '
Obviously the Britts were dummies in fighting those wars
, especially when Israel then turned on the U.K. and other countries
on a killing spree at home and abroard..........Yes it is all Britain's
fault

Not sure if the U.S. would have entered the war
if it wasn't for Japan but if G.B. told the Jewish bankers where to stick
their 40 pieces of silver
we would not now be at war against Islam and parts of the World where Islam
is accepted and we
all would have been much happier .
O if we all had the benefit of hindsight the World would be a more peaceful
place.

Art

For "Weapons of Mass Destruction" read "Multi-nationals", "Wall Street",
"Energy Resources", "CIA", "Pentagon" and "N.American Branch of the Mafia".
Bush and Blair just obey instructions.

Lord help us!