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Chuck,
If you check American History, you will see a lot of colonies were founded for religious freedom. As a Baptist, one of our unique features is an emphasis on religious liberty. We can agree to disagree, but true Chrisitanity seeks liberty. Also, many of our presidents were Christian or religious. Religious expression is found in our guiding documents, such as the Dec. of Independence, and the Constitution. Islam is not the same as Christianity. Not all religions are the same or teach the same. Just remember that "theology" can be different, but ethics, such as the Golden Rule, can be the same.Look at the core beliefs and you will see major differences. One of the differences is that Islam practices conversion by the sword. Some misguided Christians in the past have also practiced it, but as you point out the Sermon on the Mount does not support it. I am a Christian "fanatic" as it is my job and my passion. It has changed my life for the better. I vote my Christian beliefs, irregardless of the political party. And the Bible tells us to pray for the kings over us. Since we do not have a king, but we can see a principle to pray for our government leaders - All of them. It is not lunacy to accept and practice religious belief (and I am talking in general terms of all the world religions and sects). What is lunacy is to misapply religion and use for personal gain, to control people or put people down because of differing beliefs (For more religious discrimination, check out Islam and Hinduism, and the Eastern Orthodox churches). As you said, the foundation of American Values is liberty and that includes the free practice of religious beliefs. BTW instead of WWJD, WRJU - What Radio would Jesus Use? With all of his travels, I would guess an FT-817 portable radio. :-) Randy |
"Theplanters95" wrote in message ... Chuck, If you check American History, you will see a lot of colonies were founded for religious freedom. As a Baptist, one of our unique features is an emphasis on religious liberty. We can agree to disagree, but true Chrisitanity seeks liberty. Also, many of our presidents were Christian or religious. Religious expression is found in our guiding documents, such as the Dec. of Independence, and the Constitution. Yep, and that expression is one of hope that the government not be beholden to any Official Christianity. For the past couple of millennia, Official Christianity has been seeking the divine path and simultaneously exterminating all those who would diverge from the Official Truth. Life has gotten very troublesome when several competing versions of Official Christian Truth have had to share the same time and space. Christianity does not seek liberty, and in the historical record, has often been liberty's greatest foe. Of the various flavors of Christianity available today, broadly, to be a Christian, you have to either recognize a religious hierarchy as superior to your individual liberty, or accept the literal word of the Bible, which can only be done by Faith (which let's you ignore a whole lot of problematic Biblical advice). The trouble with being a True Believer is that there is no way to agree to disagree. No matter how politely you disagree with my truth, that's heresy! How can I let a heretic teach my kids in public school? I must struggle (in the best jihad sense) to help the truth prevail. You must be persuaded, re-educated, or.... eliminated. BTW, I think that only Rhode Island & Providence Plantations was formed mostly for religious freedom (fleeing the hobnailed boots of religious intolerance then existing in....., uhhh, Massachusetts), all the other American colonies were formed to turn a profit for an investment trust. And, a hundred years later, those God-fearing folks were up to their eyebrows in utilizing and turning a big profit from black slavery. Who woulda thunk it, Brown Sugar? Ed wb6wsn |
"Richard Clark" wrote /snip fighting cultures. Bush in his flight suit and helmet reminds me of that pathetic picture of Dukakis in the Tank - what a matched pair! 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Hi Richard, need we point out to you the absurdity of comparison between a pretender waving from armor he never saw before in his life, to a qualifed USAF jet fighter pilot who gets suited back up for a carrier landing? We can find a lot of things to disagree with President Bush's policies about, but one thing he is not, is a phony. 73, Jack Painter Virginia Beach VA |
On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:33:33 -0400, "Jack Painter"
wrote: We can find a lot of things to disagree with President Bush's policies about, but one thing he is not, is a phony. Hi Jack, Now there's a forced presumption. :-) Then says Rollanz: "Wherefore so wroth with me?" He answers him: "Comrade, it was your deed: Vassalage comes by sense, and not folly; Prudence more worth is than stupidity. Here are Franks dead, all for your trickery; No more service to Carlun may we yield. My lord were here now, had you trusted me, And fought and won this battle then had we, Taken or slain were the king Marsilie. In your prowess, Rollanz, no good we've seen! Charles the great in vain your aid will seek -- None such as he till God His Judgement speak; -- Here must you die, and France in shame be steeped; Here perishes our loyal company, Before this night great severance and grief." AOI. A pretty rough translation, no doubt about it, but from another: "Then Roland says: 'Why are you angry with me?' And he answers: 'Companion, it is your own doing, for knightly courage used with prudence is one thing and folly is another, and tempered judgment is more to be valued than the rashness of arrogance. Those French are dead because of your heedlessness, and we will never act again in Charles' service. If you had listened to me, my lord would have returned and we would have won this battle and King Marsiliun would have been captured or killed. Woe to us, Roland, that we ever saw your bravery! Charles the Great, a man whose like will never be see again until God judges the world, will no longer be able to rely on our help, and you will die, and shame will come to France. Today our faithful friendship will end, and before evening we will have parted in sorrow." 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC |
Jack Painter wrote in message news:1De6d.5748$%t3.2636@lakeread01... "Richard Clark" wrote /snip fighting cultures. Bush in his flight suit and helmet reminds me of that pathetic picture of Dukakis in the Tank - what a matched pair! 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Hi Richard, need we point out to you the absurdity of comparison between a pretender waving from armor he never saw before in his life, to a qualifed USAF jet fighter pilot who gets suited back up for a carrier landing? We can find a lot of things to disagree with President Bush's policies about, but one thing he is not, is a phony. 73, Jack Painter Virginia Beach VA A true believer you are, Jack... Consider the fact that Bush did not complete his pilot training by refusing to take his annual flight physical and flight review, thus was removed from flight status. Phoney docs aside, his military record is good authority to verify this. The fact that he claims to be a fighter pilot not only makes the man a phony, he is a dishonest one as well. Oh... he was not a USAF officer, but a member if the ANG - a USAF auxillary. Chuck, WA7RAI |
Theplanters95 wrote in message ... Chuck, If you check American History, you will see a lot of colonies were founded for religious freedom. As a Baptist, one of our unique features is an emphasis on religious liberty. We can agree to disagree, but true Chrisitanity seeks liberty. Also, many of our presidents were Christian or religious. Religious expression is found in our guiding documents, such as the Dec. of Independence, and the Constitution. Islam is not the same as Christianity. Not all religions are the same or teach the same. Just remember that "theology" can be different, but ethics, such as the Golden Rule, can be the same.Look at the core beliefs and you will see major differences. One of the differences is that Islam practices conversion by the sword. Some misguided Christians in the past have also practiced it, but as you point out the Sermon on the Mount does not support it. I am a Christian "fanatic" as it is my job and my passion. It has changed my life for the better. I vote my Christian beliefs, irregardless of the political party. And the Bible tells us to pray for the kings over us. Since we do not have a king, but we can see a principle to pray for our government leaders - All of them. It is not lunacy to accept and practice religious belief (and I am talking in general terms of all the world religions and sects). What is lunacy is to misapply religion and use for personal gain, to control people or put people down because of differing beliefs (For more religious discrimination, check out Islam and Hinduism, and the Eastern Orthodox churches). As you said, the foundation of American Values is liberty and that includes the free practice of religious beliefs. Indeed, which includess the liberty to not practice a religion as well. To consider Hinduism and Islam as similar, strongly suggests a lack of understanding of either. In regards to discrimination, one must understand Hinduism believes in the law of Karma: "as ye sow so shall ye reap". If one is born to a lowly state in this life, it is a result of bad actions in a previous life, thus one is deserving of their current state of existence. That said, I agree that true Christianity seeks liberty (It is obvious that the Christ's teachings were liberal) but the modern Christian Churches do not practice true Christianity at all. Allow me to elaborate: Islam, Judaism, and modern Christianity all believe in the god of Abraham. The Christ said he came to "throw out the old law" - which can only be construed as meaning the OT and the god of Abraham. Christ's God is a God of love, compassion, brotherly love, humility, judge not, and live and let live, etc... In contrast, Abraham's god was violent, angry, hateful, jealous, full of spite, and sought vengeance by killing the unfaithful. From this, it is easy to see why the world is so violent and full of hate, given that the major religions use such a horrific deity as an example for living one's life. Chuck, WA7RAI |
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Richard Clark wrote:
On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 03:02:27 GMT, "Tom Donaly" wrote: This sounds like Pilgrim's Progress. It is. Hi Tom, When common sense takes the back seat (or left to hitch-hike home), fables have often risen in defense against the caprice of arbitrary power. Literature is rich in regard to the travesty of logic that is being passed off as the boon of a new age. I could have as easily found material in the Canterbury Tales, The Decameron, The Song of Roland, The Poem of the Cid.... The effete nabobs of negativism in our Administration shrink in sharp contrast to the legendary heroes of fighting cultures. Bush in his flight suit and helmet reminds me of that pathetic picture of Dukakis in the Tank - what a matched pair! 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Hi Richard, that's a good reason more people should take time to read some of the old literatu to keep down the rate of public hornswoggling of second-rate leaders. 73, Tom Donaly, KA6RUH |
Jack Painter wrote:
"Richard Clark" wrote /snip fighting cultures. Bush in his flight suit and helmet reminds me of that pathetic picture of Dukakis in the Tank - what a matched pair! 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Hi Richard, need we point out to you the absurdity of comparison between a pretender waving from armor he never saw before in his life, to a qualifed USAF jet fighter pilot who gets suited back up for a carrier landing? We can find a lot of things to disagree with President Bush's policies about, but one thing he is not, is a phony. 73, Jack Painter Virginia Beach VA I suppose George was born with his Texas sharecropper accent, and his good, honest, Republican smirk. Give us a break, Jack. All politicians are phony through and through. Unfortunately, in George's case, that's all he's got - phoniness. 73, Tom Donaly, KA6RUH |
We do not pray to the same God. Islam is based on the blending of tribal
religions and misunderstandings of Christianity and Judism. The god of Islam is more along the lines of the Arabic moon god, Allah, not the God of Christianity. Randy |
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