Whatever wrote:
Why not use a roll of wire netting and bury that.

Good question. That method has a good reputation for portable 4-squares,
as used by some MegaDXpeditions. Just roll it out, and away you go.

But it may not be so good for fixed stations, because once it's down
there would be no way back. After the grass has started to grow through
it, it will be impossible to rip up again. If the mesh began to rot
after a few years, it would be very difficult to start again with
conventional radials.

Looking further ahead, laying mesh would 'sterilize' the area for any
kind of future cultivation, unless the whole top surface was planed off
and dumped.

So the question is: how long will galvanized netting or mesh last in
your particular soil?

It is an option I am seriously considering for the new site, but will
take local advice about soil conditions.


--
73 from Ian G3SEK 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek

Ian White, G3SEK wrote:
Whatever wrote:

Why not use a roll of wire netting and bury that.

Good question. That method has a good reputation for portable 4-squares,
as used by some MegaDXpeditions. Just roll it out, and away you go.

But it may not be so good for fixed stations, because once it's down
there would be no way back. After the grass has started to grow through
it, it will be impossible to rip up again. If the mesh began to rot
after a few years, it would be very difficult to start again with
conventional radials.

Looking further ahead, laying mesh would 'sterilize' the area for any
kind of future cultivation, unless the whole top surface was planed off
and dumped.

So the question is: how long will galvanized netting or mesh last in
your particular soil?

It is an option I am seriously considering for the new site, but will
take local advice about soil conditions.


Galvanised conductors are really not as good as copper at RF, conductivity
is much lower. Probably not much of a problem for a 50 ohm or more antenna
but for an electrically short one, as might well be used on the lower bands,
the increase in resistance can be significant. Copper is a better choice if
the increased cost is not too significant. Tinned copper is really tin wire
at RF so it is not as good as plain copper.

The smaller the burial depth the better the ground plane will be, in general.
In fact much better results have been obtained with elevated (usually about
6 ft.) radials, but 'the powers that be' usually reject this alternative.
Disguise as a pergola or frame for training some type of plant is a possibility.

Copper will be almost permanent in most soils, galvanised iron wire may only
last a few years, so if you don't plan on repeating the installation the best
choice is plain copper, either insulated or not, with tinned copper a moderate
second and galvanised iron third by a fair way.

Any will be significantly better than mud and stones which are known to be
poor conductors at RF.

vy 73

Andy, M1EBV

Ian White, G3SEK wrote:
Whatever wrote:
Why not use a roll of wire netting and bury that.

Good question. That method has a good reputation for portable 4-squares,
as used by some MegaDXpeditions. Just roll it out, and away you go.

When I was in high school, my Dad had a very large wire chicken
pen. I mounted my 33' downspout vertical on top of it and used
the wire mesh for a slightly elevated ground plane. Worked All
States with it except Idaho (darn it).
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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Ian, theres's far too much unwarranted fuss about ground radials in ordinary
English gardens and back yards. Just lay a few wires, 6 to 12 in number.
beneath a trodden-on, compacted soil surface, with lengths of a few metres,
perhaps 5 to 10 metres, and away you go.

Don't forget to attach to the incoming main water pipe and the domestic
plumbing system if you have one. Also the electricity supply ground. And
then stop! Or stop before then and see how well it works.
----
Reg.

Reg Edwards wrote:
Ian, theres's far too much unwarranted fuss about ground radials in
ordinary English gardens and back yards. Just lay a few wires, 6 to 12
in number. beneath a trodden-on, compacted soil surface, with lengths
of a few metres, perhaps 5 to 10 metres, and away you go.


Sorry, Reg, you have no way to know how many radials someone else needs.

The 'right' radial layout for any given person will depend on their
available space, their resources, their limitations, their style of
operating (casual, DXing or contesting), and above all their antennas -
none of which you actually know.

For example, in presuming that my next radial installation will be in an
"ordinary English garden", you'd actually be wrong on all three counts!


To everyone else out the if you want to know how many radials you
need, go find out everything you can about radials, from every possible
source. There's lots of it out there. With each bit of information you
find, judge its probable reliability and its relevance to your
particular situation. Then make your own decision.


--
73 from Ian G3SEK 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:27:28 +0000, "Ian White, G3SEK"
wrote:

The 'right' radial layout for any given person will depend on their
available space, their resources, their limitations, their style of
operating (casual, DXing or contesting), and above all their antennas -
none of which you actually know.

For example, in presuming that my next radial installation will be in an
"ordinary English garden", you'd actually be wrong on all three counts!


Once upon a time....I had an 18AVT trapped vertical, which due to the
lack of gardening activities in the winter, I had added a number of
insulated wire radials lying on the surface of the grass. I kept
adding to these as time went by and wire became available.

One night, after a few evenings listening to the DX on 80m, I gathered
them all into a small arc pointing at the Caribbean. There must have
been 200 or 300 radial wires spread over ~10 degrees.

A local Amateur friend using an FT200 tuned up and waited until a KV4
station called, and he was the first station pulled out of the
following European pile-up, with a cracking signal report. It's just
anecdote, but I believe the 18AVT was working well in the manner I had
anticipated. It's my belief that you can't have too much in the way of
radials.....but each to his own.
--
from
Aero Spike

"Ian White, G3SEK" wrote in message
...
Reg Edwards wrote:
Iasnip

For example, in presuming that my next radial installation will be in an
"ordinary English garden", you'd actually be wrong on all three counts!
one..........two .......three

Are we off to Spain?

Art


snip


--
73 from Ian G3SEK 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek

wrote:

Are we off to Spain?

Nope. You'll see, in good time...

--
73 from Ian G3SEK 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek

"Ian White, G3SEK" wrote in message
...
Reg Edwards wrote:
Ian, theres's far too much unwarranted fuss about ground radials in
ordinary English gardens and back yards. Just lay a few wires, 6 to 12
in number. beneath a trodden-on, compacted soil surface, with lengths
of a few metres, perhaps 5 to 10 metres, and away you go.


Sorry, Reg, you have no way to know how many radials someone else needs.

The 'right' radial layout for any given person will depend on their
available space, their resources, their limitations, their style of
operating (casual, DXing or contesting), and above all their antennas -
none of which you actually know.

For example, in presuming that my next radial installation will be in an
"ordinary English garden", you'd actually be wrong on all three counts!


To everyone else out the if you want to know how many radials you
need, go find out everything you can about radials, from every possible
source. There's lots of it out there. With each bit of information you
find, judge its probable reliability and its relevance to your
particular situation. Then make your own decision.

=============================

Ian, may I suggest you join forces with the Ph.D student on this newsgroup
who wants to develop an explicit formula to "Calculate the Earth resistance
in a Multi-layer Ground Structure". Your problems are not unrelated.

And come back in 20 years time to report your unsuccessful findings. ;o)
----
Reg

Reg Edwards wrote:
Ian, may I suggest you join forces with the Ph.D student on this
newsgroup who wants to develop an explicit formula to "Calculate the
Earth resistance in a Multi-layer Ground Structure". Your problems are
not unrelated.

That is strictly his problem. For my purposes, there's already plenty of
information out there.

And come back in 20 years time to report your unsuccessful findings.
;o)

I will come back much sooner, and report some successful DXing... though
you're still going to say it could have been done with a dozen short
radials :-)


--
73 from Ian G3SEK 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek