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#1
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TV antenna question..........
Hello,
I hope I'm in the right newsgroup.......... I am totally remodeling my house. The walls are gutted down to the studs. I want to run any and all appropriate wires and cables before the drywall goes up. I want to receive UHF and VHF TV signals for my TV. Most people now get their signals via cable or satellite. I would be happy with just six channels or so. What kind of cable should I run ? What type of amplifier should I have ? Rotor type ? What are good antenna brands ? Model numbers ? Anything else ? Thanks, Hank |
#2
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hey hank channel master makes a good ant and amp also you can by
the coax from wal.mart cheaper the rat shack one more thing are you in the country or city is you tv sations close by . get the ant high as you can |
#3
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"Hank" wrote in message
... Hello, I hope I'm in the right newsgroup.......... I am totally remodeling my house. The walls are gutted down to the studs. I want to run any and all appropriate wires and cables before the drywall goes up. I want to receive UHF and VHF TV signals for my TV. Most people now get their signals via cable or satellite. I would be happy with just six channels or so. What kind of cable should I run ? What type of amplifier should I have ? Rotor type ? What are good antenna brands ? Model numbers ? Anything else ? Thanks, Hank NO, not the correct group for TV, satellite TV or home cabling ... try rec.video.satellite.tvro or comp.dcom.cabling or http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin.../list.cgi?2130 Home cabling today (computer network, TV, etc) is referred to as structured wiring. http://electrical.bobvila.com/Article/371.html http://electrical.bobvila.com/Article/372.html http://www.ehow.com/how_12212_make-pre-wiring.html http://www.tvidish.com/builders.html Remember that "off the air" VHF/UHF analog signals are due to be replaced by Digital TV over the next 4 years. I would wire for satellite cabling standards, if you don't have a local CATV company. DIY TV cabling http://www.dba.org.au/uploads/docume...0802_amend.pdf http://www.smarthome.com/coaxcable.html Some other links http://www.satellitetv-hq.com/hqguid...l#installation http://www.starkelectronic.com/ The other choice is to just pull the plastic tubing for the cable (with a pull string) and pull the cabling later -- without ripping up your walls. Check with local building and inspection codes for acceptance in your area. http://www.phonegeeks.com/wirforfut.html TIA-570-A Grades of Cabling Service Grade 1 Cabling Requirements Grade 2 Cabling Requirements Telephone (1) 4-Pair category 3 (1) 4-Pair category 5 Optional (1) 4-Pair category 5 Optional (2) 4-Pair category 5 Television (1) 75-ohm Coax (1) 75-ohm Coax Optional (2) 75-ohm Coax Data (1) 4-Pair category 3 (1) 4-Pair category 5 Optional (1) 4-Pair category 5 Optional (2) Optical Fiber Multimedia Not Accommodated (1) 4-Pair category 5 Optional (2) Optical Fiber Benefits to Homeowners Homeowners or tenants are exploring the full spectrum of residential technologies available today and most certainly will continue to do so in the future. Entertainment, security and environmental controls are only a few of the highly desirable attributes being sought by homeowners and tenants. In addition, there are other convenience offerings and features, e.g., energy-efficiency, high performance in-home networking, internal or external digital video/audio systems to name a few. Enhanced capabilities for SOHO's, Internet access or telecommuting are obvious, and are among additional benefits to be enjoyed by residential users, all enabled by a TIA-570-A infrastructure in the home. |
#4
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Hi Hank
Since your doing a full gut rehab anyhow! Here are a few ideas that we often do during upscale renovations. The cost is negligible before the walls go up. In the den, we run a 3/4 PVC conduit from a pull box in the den, both upwards to the attic and downwards to the basement for future unknown technological advances. We sometimes do the same thing in the master bedroom. All homes are daisy chain wired to every room with two 4 wire telephone and two 6 wire shielded cable each in their respective pullboxes, plus from the central utility area two 75 ohm coax are run to a pullbox in each room. In addition to the AC electric, from the utility area we often install low voltage DC wiring to bathrooms, bedrooms, hallways, etc. for emergency lighting. And on rare occasions piping for oxygen to master bedroom, kitchen and den. And the security service wiring to doors and windows. And the zone controls for HVAC, etc. If you intend on having a hobby room, it's nice to have it vented and plumbed as a wet bar as well. Now, if your a HAM! Don't forget the SHACK, hi hi, it should have the very BEST of all amenities and grounded cable routes, etc. TTUL Gary |
#5
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"Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr." wrote in message
... Hi Hank Since your doing a full gut rehab anyhow! Here are a few ideas that we often do during upscale renovations. The cost is negligible before the walls go up. In the den, we run a 3/4 PVC conduit from a pull box in the den, both upwards to the attic and downwards to the basement for future unknown technological advances. We sometimes do the same thing in the master bedroom. All homes are daisy chain wired to every room with two 4 wire telephone and two 6 wire shielded cable each in their respective pullboxes, plus from the central utility area two 75 ohm coax are run to a pullbox in each room. Gary The usage of a pathway (conduit, etc.) is always a good idea for future additions for your structure home cabling (especially heavily used areas) "Daisy chaining" is NO longer the acceptable physical installation practice for home structured cabling (EIA/TIA 570-A standard). This was the practice by the Bell Operating companies for telephone cabling before its breakup in 1984 .. and is mentioned as a legacy method used before the adoption of the EIA/TIA standards. The standard also addresses 75 ohm video cabling (TV, etc.) as well as have foundation standards (568 and 569) more suited for larger commercial or business installations. The standardized practice for structure cabling in new installations (and remodeling or major retro-fits) is for "home-run" wiring from each outlet from a central location (cabling in a physical star topology) with a distance limitation of no more than 100 meters from equipment to the telecommunications outlet. BICSI also performs certification of structured cabling installers (electricians, contractors) for both residential and commercial installations. Do a Google search on EIA/TIA 570-A ; structured cabling or BICSI and you will find the necessary information. The major cabling vendors (Leviton, Systemax(old AT&T cable), etc.) also have this pertinent information. I only point this out, since I am a professional consultant in this area --- and find the "daisy chain" approach for physical cable installation still practiced and approved by municipalities and contractors ... UNAWARE of these standards ... now 10 years old and reviewed on an annual basis through the EIA and TIA organizations. gb |
#6
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On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 15:18:40 GMT, w9gb hath writ:
"Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr." wrote in message ... Hi Hank Since your doing a full gut rehab anyhow! Here are a few ideas that we often do during upscale renovations. The cost is negligible before the walls go up. In the den, we run a 3/4 PVC conduit from a pull box in the den, both upwards to the attic and downwards to the basement for future unknown technological advances. We sometimes do the same thing in the master bedroom. All homes are daisy chain wired to every room with two 4 wire telephone and two 6 wire shielded cable each in their respective pullboxes, plus from the central utility area two 75 ohm coax are run to a pullbox in each room. The usage of a pathway (conduit, etc.) is always a good idea for future additions for your structure home cabling (especially heavily used areas) "Daisy chaining" is NO longer the acceptable physical installation practice for home structured cabling (EIA/TIA 570-A standard). This was the practice by the Bell Operating companies for telephone cabling before its breakup in 1984 .. and is mentioned as a legacy method used before the adoption of the EIA/TIA standards. The standard also addresses 75 ohm video cabling (TV, etc.) as well as have foundation standards (568 and 569) more suited for larger commercial or business installations. The standardized practice for structure cabling in new installations (and remodeling or major retro-fits) is for "home-run" wiring from each outlet from a central location (cabling in a physical star topology) with a distance limitation of no more than 100 meters from equipment to the telecommunications outlet. BICSI also performs certification of structured cabling installers (electricians, contractors) for both residential and commercial installations. Do a Google search on EIA/TIA 570-A ; structured cabling or BICSI and you will find the necessary information. The major cabling vendors (Leviton, Systemax(old AT&T cable), etc.) also have this pertinent information. I only point this out, since I am a professional consultant in this area --- and find the "daisy chain" approach for physical cable installation still practiced and approved by municipalities and contractors ... UNAWARE of these standards ... now 10 years old and reviewed on an annual basis through the EIA and TIA organizations. I second the comment daisy chaining telco wiring. Several months ago I did a self-install of DSL here. And, from past 'projects' putting in 'extra' phones in various rooms, I knew the hay-wire daisy chain scheme I had (circa. 1977) -- going all 'round the attic -- thence to the finished basement and snaking through the stud walls there. What I ended up doing was installing my own NIB (Network Interface Box) just downstream from the telco NIB. There I installed a DSL filter on the daisy chain line headed for attic. Ahead of the DSL filter I installed a new line and pulled it into the home office. Not a lick of trouble with DSL since day 1. Going the other route: installing DSL filters at each outlet along the daisy chain did *not* give me a warm and fuzzy feeling. I felt there would still be plenty of opportunity for RF noise to get into the long daisy chain (read: random wire antenna) -- which would degrade the DSL operation. Too, I was concerned about the interaction (both ways) between the DSL signals and my amateur radio activity. Just last week I did a DSL install for a small, local real estate office -- two agents and a receptionist -- 3 PC's (that were here-to-fore freestanding.) They had a punch-down block in the basement for 2 'voice' lines and 1 'fax' line -- with separate lines running off to phones and fax. Simple install: I installed a DSL filter on the fax line (the line carrying DSL) right at the punch-down block -- breaking out a new, short line to the DSL modem/router and hub thingies which I mounted on a shelf close by. From there it was 'simple' to pull CAT-5 cable to each of the 3 PC's upstairs. I'd say: pay the telco to put in a punch-down block -- and run two lines in from the street or alley (even if you only plan on using 1 line -- now.) Then run 2-pair from 'everywhere' in the house to the punch-down block -- but tie back (store) the ones that are not (yet) in use. HTH Jonesy -- | Marvin L Jones | jonz | W3DHJ | linux | Gunnison, Colorado | @ | Jonesy | OS/2 __ | 7,703' -- 2,345m | config.com | DM68mn SK |
#7
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"Allodoxaphobia" wrote in message
... On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 15:18:40 GMT, w9gb hath writ: "Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr." wrote in message ... I second the comment daisy chaining telco wiring. Several months ago I did a self-install of DSL here. And, from past 'projects' putting in 'extra' phones in various rooms, I knew the hay-wire daisy chain scheme I had (circa. 1977) -- going all 'round the attic -- thence to the finished basement and snaking through the stud walls there. What I ended up doing was installing my own NIB (Network Interface Box) just downstream from the telco NIB. There I installed a DSL filter on the daisy chain line headed for attic. Ahead of the DSL filter I installed a new line and pulled it into the home office. Not a lick of trouble with DSL since day 1. [snip] HTH Jonesy -- Yes, one DSL filter at the "head-end" or entrance panel can address all of the distribution issues with DSL. In fact, I prefer to keep the DSL modem and router AT the head end. Surplus network equipment that is more than adequate for home networking is almost being given away these days. I live the Leviton system, but have used others, as well as the original plywood backer board and 66-block / 110 block installations Leviton has a very good book (Adobe Acrobat that anyone can download) that should be required reading for the planning stages. It's normally $ 10 BUT the downloadable Acrobat copy is FREE Covers ALL of the diagrams and techniques the are compatible with the EIA/TIA standards. This is a MUST for your local building contractor or DIY installer. http://www.levitonvoicedata.com/learning/wiring.asp Wiring Strategies Installation Guide (its a 2 Mb file) http://www.levitonvoicedata.com/lear...strategies.pdf w9gb |
#8
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Thanks for the link, that was very timely. I am days away from closing on a second house, where my existing bedroom shop will migrate to. I've always greatly preferred homerunning everything, even back in my alarm days, in the late 70's. Much easier to debug, much fewer problems. I will need to do phones, cable, cat5, and some misc control signals. I have a wiring panel coming, and a bunch of 66 blocks Brings back the good old days. Some of my resedential alarms filled a 4x8 sheet on the wall, and had dedicated rooms. Doubly or triply redundant systems, with multiple sensing technologies, supervised wiring, phone and wireless reporting. Those were the days. |
#9
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Hi gb
I agree! I also was not quite clear in my statements either. We only daisy chain each rooms telephone circuits from a central locatiion using loops in the pullboxes, having blank cover plates over those pullboxes until it is decided which one will suffice for the room furniture layout. For computer we usually use the 75 ohm cable direct to the central area for internet, and for internal networking the 6 wire cable is used. It too runs from each room to the central area. If the internal network only goes to rooms B and D only those two connections are made in the central area. In my house I have a shielded twisted pair going to each room, in each room it is daisy chained to all possible outlets, at least 1 on each wall, in some cases two on a couple of the walls. Unless it was used at one time, there are no connections within the pull boxes. However one decides to handle their wiring and extra's it's better to have and not need than to not have at all. Price is also a consideration! Running 6 telephone lines from a central area to each room in the home can get quite expensive and overly redundant for most home installations. In addition, some cities charge 10 to 13 bucks extra on the permits for each pullbox installed, even when those pullboxes are used for non-permit required applications. In my old house we had 46 outlets in the kitchen. As if 46 were not enough already, the inspector required that we install 4 more additional outlets in areas we considered to be very hazardous to have outlets at all. And sure enough, one of the extra duplexes we had to add, became a constant torment to us. Not from usage, its 'required' location was in a place where it was continually damaged and required regular replacement. Another was in a location where water was splashed on it several times. But you cannot fight the STUPIDITY of City Hall! TTUL Gary |
#10
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"Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr." wrote in message
... Hi gb I agree! I also was not quite clear in my statements either. We only daisy chain each rooms telephone circuits from a central locatiion using loops in the pullboxes, having blank cover plates over those pullboxes until it is decided which one will suffice for the room furniture layout. For computer we usually use the 75 ohm cable direct to the central area for internet, and for internal networking the 6 wire cable is used. It too runs from each room to the central area. If the internal network only goes to rooms B and D only those two connections are made in the central area. In my house I have a shielded twisted pair going to each room, in each room it is daisy chained to all possible outlets, at least 1 on each wall, in some cases two on a couple of the walls. Unless it was used at one time, there are no connections within the pull boxes. However one decides to handle their wiring and extra's it's better to have and not need than to not have at all. Price is also a consideration! Running 6 telephone lines from a central area to each room in the home can get quite expensive and overly redundant for most home installations. In addition, some cities charge 10 to 13 bucks extra on the permits for each pullbox installed, even when those pullboxes are used for non-permit required applications. [snip] TTUL Gary I would like to know which municipality or government entity these building codes (permit charges) are coming from. Category 5e cable is very inexpensive and the number of telecommunication outlets does not change -- whether daisy-chained or home-run. Daisy chaining STP cable just introduces potential ground loops, since no single ground potential point is established (grounding section of NEC and EIA/TIA), Luckily as long as the contractor does not staple the wire continuous along the studs (just at the "rough-in" plate) .. these nuisances are relatively easy to correct. Who taught you this physical cabling method? It is also contrary to BICSI certifications. The National Electrical Code has been changed to reflect the EIA/TIA standards for structured cabling and often takes precedence over local codes, UNLESS the local code is more stringent or specific for fire,health,safety reasons. For example, although ROMEX is permitted under code, DuPage county (IL) as well as city of Chicago strictly forbid its usage for electrical wiring. This stems from tragic fires and safety (e.g. 1959 elementary school fire in Chicago with large loss of life) gb |
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