On 25 Jan 2005 11:12:20 -0800, wrote:

So you are saying it wont matter?

I was wanting to use the marine battery I have but someone else posted
a negative experience with the fumes ruining part of their house and
their own health. It scared me a little.

Hi Don,

Well it seems in the interim, you got good advice as to battery use in
the shack, and shabby advice about writing. ;-)

For the record, my batteries are actually sealed lead-acid Hawker
Energy (Gates) Cyclon BC Cell (25 AH) and not cheap - but then they
are rock solid. I went this direction knowing full well most
batteries die because of one cell failure - this way I can replace the
dead cell. My buddy used a deep discharge battery that was over
floated (probably 15V) and he rarely minded the water level (too bad
too) as he boiled it down. There was some obvious corrosion near the
battery (sitting open to the environment, and he's a heavy smoker) but
nothing widespread (his battery sat in a plastic tray on a wooden
shelf).

During normal use at field day, my batteries lasted many hours. When
the rig began to sputter, I swapped one out to charge from the car. I
also monitored the voltage, and rarely ran below 11.5 Volts. Even
with a "quick" charge, I would always current limit it to about 5A.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Richard Clark wrote:
On 25 Jan 2005 11:12:20 -0800, wrote:

So you are saying it wont matter?

I was wanting to use the marine battery I have but someone else
posted
a negative experience with the fumes ruining part of their house and
their own health. It scared me a little.

Hi Don,

Well it seems in the interim, you got good advice as to battery use
in
the shack, and shabby advice about writing. ;-)

For the record, my batteries are actually sealed lead-acid Hawker
Energy (Gates) Cyclon BC Cell (25 AH) and not cheap - but then they
are rock solid. I went this direction knowing full well most
batteries die because of one cell failure - this way I can replace
the
dead cell. My buddy used a deep discharge battery that was over
floated (probably 15V) and he rarely minded the water level (too bad
too) as he boiled it down. There was some obvious corrosion near the
battery (sitting open to the environment, and he's a heavy smoker)
but
nothing widespread (his battery sat in a plastic tray on a wooden
shelf).

During normal use at field day, my batteries lasted many hours. When
the rig began to sputter, I swapped one out to charge from the car.
I
also monitored the voltage, and rarely ran below 11.5 Volts. Even
with a "quick" charge, I would always current limit it to about 5A.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC


Is it bad to leave a charger hooked up to the battery permanently. Mine
is a 12/2 with automatic operation.

wrote in message
ups.com...

Richard Clark wrote:
On 25 Jan 2005 11:12:20 -0800, wrote:

So you are saying it wont matter?

I was wanting to use the marine battery I have but someone else
posted
a negative experience with the fumes ruining part of their house and
their own health. It scared me a little.

Hi Don,

Well it seems in the interim, you got good advice as to battery use
in
the shack, and shabby advice about writing. ;-)

For the record, my batteries are actually sealed lead-acid Hawker
Energy (Gates) Cyclon BC Cell (25 AH) and not cheap - but then they
are rock solid. I went this direction knowing full well most
batteries die because of one cell failure - this way I can replace
the
dead cell. My buddy used a deep discharge battery that was over
floated (probably 15V) and he rarely minded the water level (too bad
too) as he boiled it down. There was some obvious corrosion near the
battery (sitting open to the environment, and he's a heavy smoker)
but
nothing widespread (his battery sat in a plastic tray on a wooden
shelf).

During normal use at field day, my batteries lasted many hours. When
the rig began to sputter, I swapped one out to charge from the car.
I
also monitored the voltage, and rarely ran below 11.5 Volts. Even
with a "quick" charge, I would always current limit it to about 5A.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC


Is it bad to leave a charger hooked up to the battery permanently. Mine
is a 12/2 with automatic operation.


I don't know what other's opinions will be regarding this, BUT - mine is NO.
I know a guy who fried a H.F. radio twice by doing that. Maybe he didn't
have it connected altogether properly, but the charger fried his radio twice
and it cost him a few bucks to get it fixed both times. The first time, he
didn't say what caused the failure. The second time, he figured out it had
to be the charger. Since he quit using the charger at the same time - once
the set was repaired - again, the set has worked fine. And yes, he still
uses the battery and a charger. He just disconnects the charger before
using - now.

L.

I don't know what other's opinions will be regarding this, BUT - mine is
NO. I know a guy who fried a H.F. radio twice by doing that. Maybe he
didn't have it connected altogether properly, but the charger fried his
radio twice and it cost him a few bucks to get it fixed both times. The
first time, he didn't say what caused the failure. The second time, he
figured out it had to be the charger. Since he quit using the charger at
the same time - once the set was repaired - again, the set has worked
fine. And yes, he still uses the battery and a charger. He just
disconnects the charger before using - now.

Well, there's all sorts of junk out there called "chargers", and most are
not designed to be on the battery continuously, and some don't have any
output voltage regulation at all. Wouldn't surprise me at all, if he
connected the radio to the "charger" without a battery in place, and got
18-25V or so applied to the radio.

For this sort of service, you want a unit with regulated output voltage, and
a trim adjustment.
I use switchmode because it's way more efficient, and therefore runs with no
observable heat.
There is no noise or hum into the radio, even when it's putting full output
into the battery.

My Samlex charger works nicely, and will deliver 13.8V to an open circuit,
or a 1 ohm load.

"Dave VanHorn" wrote in message
...
I don't know what other's opinions will be regarding this, BUT - mine is
NO. I know a guy who fried a H.F. radio twice by doing that. Maybe he
didn't have it connected altogether properly, but the charger fried his
radio twice and it cost him a few bucks to get it fixed both times. The
first time, he didn't say what caused the failure. The second time, he
figured out it had to be the charger. Since he quit using the charger at
the same time - once the set was repaired - again, the set has worked
fine. And yes, he still uses the battery and a charger. He just
disconnects the charger before using - now.

Well, there's all sorts of junk out there called "chargers", and most are
not designed to be on the battery continuously, and some don't have any
output voltage regulation at all. Wouldn't surprise me at all, if he
connected the radio to the "charger" without a battery in place, and got
18-25V or so applied to the radio.

For this sort of service, you want a unit with regulated output voltage,
and a trim adjustment.
I use switchmode because it's way more efficient, and therefore runs with
no observable heat.
There is no noise or hum into the radio, even when it's putting full
output into the battery.

My Samlex charger works nicely, and will deliver 13.8V to an open circuit,
or a 1 ohm load.



I didn't see the actual charger the guy used, but when the rig fried the 2nd
time and he fessed up with his hook up, then I questioned the voltage. He
didn't fess up the first time as he felt it was hooked up ok and there was
nothing to have caused it aside from a "radio" failure. In his mind, it was
a "12 volt charger" - it should have worked - must have been the radio." And
all he said was - it was hooked up to a battery. Saying nothing of the
charger since he felt it wasn't at fault. His charger was putting out close
to 18 VDC - when I asked him to check it - via phone. So, I told him, there
is your culprit. As to how well it was "supposed" to be regulated, I don't
know - but, he learned a lesson that time - an expensive lesson. "I"
realize - all power supplies and chargers aren't created equal - he didn't -
he was just getting into Ham when that happened. He seen a diagram I guess,
but it said nothing of voltages or other hazards to avoid. So, he followed
it and whalah - snap, crackle, pop. At the moment, it did seem it could have
been a "radio" failure meaning a part "could" have went bad from age/use -
possible former abuse - the set was used when he bought it. AND according to
him, it didn't blow right away, which sort of masked the fault - aside from
the concealing the charger. When it went south the 2nd time almost
immediately, then there "had" to be a reason to have caused it. Once the
culprit was found, the radio repaired - again, he's had good use of it
since.

L.

His charger was putting out close
to 18 VDC - when I asked him to check it - via phone. So, I told him,
there is your culprit.

That's what I suspected, unregulated output, without the battery in the loop
to absorb the energy.

This comes from using a "charger" as a regulated power supply.
Note that a regulated power supply makes a much better charger, than even a
"charger".

Is it bad to leave a charger hooked up to the battery permanently. Mine
is a 12/2 with automatic operation.

Only if the charger isn't set properly.

What we're doing is called "float" service, where the charger voltage is set
lower than it would be for normal "recharge a dead battery" sorts of
applications. You have to check your particular battery's spec, but most
sit around 13.8-ish instead of the normal charger output of about 14.4.

On 26 Jan 2005 05:32:13 -0800, wrote:

Is it bad to leave a charger hooked up to the battery permanently. Mine
is a 12/2 with automatic operation.

Hi Don,

Well then, I must presume it is the inferior product to blame (or
perhaps inferior advice). Take note that Dave has an identical
installation and we both suffer no problems whatever and this is for
YEARS of sustained service.

Hawker guarantees my cells for 15 Years of life and fully recommends a
continuous float charge. There are probably 100 Million batteries in
hospital corridors, schools, churches, theaters, public service
buildings all sitting there on a float charge waiting to turn on the
emergency lighting. In fact my current limiting of the quick charge
is overly conservative as Hawker explicitly offers there is no
restriction to inrush current from professional grade chargers.

Lou's report of his buddy's charger running at 18 V is nothing short
of a death wish with a meter indicator. If you read the precautions
printed on that charger's box, it also says it is dangerous to charge
an automotive battery with it while the battery is still connected to
the automotive electronics.

If you choose to employ cycle charging (where you disconnect the
charger and run the battery down), then you need to run at a higher
charge voltage which is typical of most chargers off the shelf for
automotive work where you are doing a battery overnight. The higher
voltage is NOT GOOD for floating - unless you have deep pockets for
battery replacement. In the case of automotive batteries, their ONLY
use is to start the engine. After that, they are little more than a
chemical capacitor for the alternator's supply to the automotive
electrical system. In the old days, better cars had a dash mounted
Ammeter. The plus indication showed a slight positive indication for
the alternator load (charge and ignition in the days before megawatt
stereo systems); or a negative indication when you were running on
battery alone (and your -well in this case, and age- generator was
shot).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

wrote:



Is it bad to leave a charger hooked up to the battery permanently.
Mine
is a 12/2 with automatic operation.

No. Thats the whole point of the "automatic" charger. The old style
"trickle"
chargers should not be left on past full charge for long periods.
I use a 12/2 automatic, and it's on 24/7. But, same for my 706. It's
usually
on 24/7...I bought it in 2001, and it probably hasn't had a full weeks
rest
since then...When a "12v" battery thats on a charger reaches appx 14.4
volts, it's
fully charged. If you unplug the charger, or if automatic cut off, the
voltage
will drop down to about 13.8v. When it drops much lower than that, the
charger
kicks back on, charges to appx 14.4v, and cuts off...Over and
over..This manner
of charging won't hurt a battery, and can be left on all day if you
want.
A trickle charger reaches 14.4, and keeps charging, but with a lower
current
level. It won't hurt it for short periods of time, but after a while,
the battery
overheats, and thats when you start boiling off electrolyte...How bad
depends on
the charge rate...A 1 amp or less trickle charge is not near as bad as
a 3-5
amp trickle charge to a fully charged battery. But after switching to
automatic,
I could never go back to the old style manual chargers...With those,
sometimes
I would forget to cut them off...And sometimes, I would cut them off,
and forget
to plug back in, and eventually, have a dead battery...Thats worse than
overcharging..
MK

wrote in message
ups.com...
Is it bad to leave a charger hooked up to the battery permanently. Mine
is a 12/2 with automatic operation.


Geeeeez just jump in AND DO SOMETHING!!! Get your feet
wet, you going to spend the rest of your life worrying about what might
happen? Take the proper precautions and get with it. Try to ENJOY the
hobby!!!!!