"Cecil Moore" asks -
Did time exist before man?

============================

Entirely insignificant mankind could not possibly have had any
influence on the course of the Universe.
----
Reg

John Smith looks at Reg--sideways, with a slack jaw

Reg Edwards wrote:

"Cecil Moore" asks -
Did time exist before man?

Entirely insignificant mankind could not possibly have had any
influence on the course of the Universe.

That's exactly what I am saying, Reg. Before man, the
universe got along just fine without the existence of
time. Why does the universe need time now that we are
here?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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Cecil Moore wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote:

Time is very real to us mortals, Cecil.


So is God (whether He exists in reality or not).
Question is: Did time exist before man?

It is an interesting question. Certainly life forms that presumably do
*not* have consciousness, such as bacteria, have a beginning, a being
and an end. So is time dependent upon a life form possessing sentience?
If a sentient being such as man is not there to invent the concept of
time, do all those constructs that have a beginning and end cease to exist?

A year is
simply movement, once around the sun. I've been
here for about 40 billion miles around the sun. Is
that time or simply distance?

Years are constructs of humanity. It is simply a convenient method of
marking things that *happen*, such as the position of the stars, which
as it turns out , is a manifestation of the period in which the earth
returns to some initial observation point.

No doubt it is similar to our using base 10 math because we happen to
have 10 fingers.

Am I winding down
because of the years or simply, like my '96 pickup,
because of the miles?

Entropy, My dear Cecil, entropy!

More importantly, as the great sage Homer Simpson asked:

"Can God make a burrito so hot that he can't eat it?"

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote:
Certainly life forms that presumably
do *not* have consciousness, such as bacteria, have a beginning, a being
and an end. So is time dependent upon a life form possessing sentience?
If a sentient being such as man is not there to invent the concept of
time, do all those constructs that have a beginning and end cease to exist?

It's even more complicated than that. When a bacteria divides,
the two resulting individuals are identical, not parent and
child. So, barring mutations, any bacteria that is not extinct
is immortal. Time is absolutely meaningless to such an organism.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:13:33 -0400, Mike Coslo
wrote:

Cecil Moore wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote:

Time is very real to us mortals, Cecil.


So is God (whether He exists in reality or not).
Question is: Did time exist before man?

It is an interesting question. Certainly life forms that presumably do
*not* have consciousness, such as bacteria, have a beginning, a being
and an end. So is time dependent upon a life form possessing sentience?

That's pretty close to the tree falling in the forest bit.

hile you're at it, if your in Socrates' dreamless sleep and
can't perceive time, has time passed?



If a sentient being such as man is not there to invent the concept of
time, do all those constructs that have a beginning and end cease to exist?

A year is
simply movement, once around the sun. I've been
here for about 40 billion miles around the sun. Is
that time or simply distance?

Years are constructs of humanity. It is simply a convenient method of
marking things that *happen*, such as the position of the stars, which
as it turns out , is a manifestation of the period in which the earth
returns to some initial observation point.

No doubt it is similar to our using base 10 math because we happen to
have 10 fingers.

Am I winding down
because of the years or simply, like my '96 pickup,
because of the miles?

Entropy, My dear Cecil, entropy!

More importantly, as the great sage Homer Simpson asked:

"Can God make a burrito so hot that he can't eat it?"

- Mike KB3EIA -

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Let me give you my "Mental Model."

There is no such thing as "cold."
There is no such thing as "heat." (there is infrared radiation--i.e. a
frequency(s) of vibration of atoms)
Cold is the absence of heat, absolute cold (absolute zero) is a single
measurement of one state of heat (vibration/movement of atomic
particles)--NONE!
Heat (hot) is really a measurement of the state of exicted
atomic/sub-atomic
particles movement, and of that movement producing "heat" through the
friction produced by the movement of these atomic particles...

Next, there is no such thing as "time!" Time is simply a measurement of
movement! Indeed, our time is based on the rotation of the sun and
planets... (atomic time on the decay of a radioactive substance--but
again,
physical change and movement!)

I realize that specific "mental models" have been created, taught, adopted
and followed (too religiously if you ask me!) for discussing and
describing
"radio." However, most of these are far from "real things!"

Warmest regards,
John


Well, John,
If you put it thataway. Heat is an abstraction of movement. And time is
an abstraction of movement. Looks like the common thing here is ... lets see
.... hmmm... abstractions ! couldn't be movement, cuz my dial don't move
anymore - the LED's just flash the numbers. Antenna length is an abstraction
of movement - the rate of movement (mhz) (megacycles per second) uhoh - I
can see a circular reference here --- if speed is rate of movement - then
rate has no meaning without including an element of time -- which is itself
an abstraction of movement.
move us toward a better understanding - lets do string theory next -
unless it moves, too.

Yes, I think you understand my point! grin

Regards,
John

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Let me give you my "Mental Model."

There is no such thing as "cold."
There is no such thing as "heat." (there is infrared radiation--i.e. a
frequency(s) of vibration of atoms)
Cold is the absence of heat, absolute cold (absolute zero) is a single
measurement of one state of heat (vibration/movement of atomic
particles)--NONE!
Heat (hot) is really a measurement of the state of exicted
atomic/sub-atomic
particles movement, and of that movement producing "heat" through the
friction produced by the movement of these atomic particles...

Next, there is no such thing as "time!" Time is simply a measurement of
movement! Indeed, our time is based on the rotation of the sun and
planets... (atomic time on the decay of a radioactive substance--but
again,
physical change and movement!)

I realize that specific "mental models" have been created, taught,
adopted
and followed (too religiously if you ask me!) for discussing and
describing
"radio." However, most of these are far from "real things!"

Warmest regards,
John


Your aspiration is to be a troll, right?

John

Now, "trolls" are not real creatures, you know that!

And, indeed, everyone seems to have a different interpretation of "troll" on
usenet--it is really meaningless to me, my goal is an exchange interesting
information--I have a little time left, and some patience.
But, you have my interest, what is the meaning of "troll" to you? With your
exact definition--I will be able to answer your question more accurately....
plus, we can make sure everyone here is in agreement of what a "troll"
is--then everyone can judge for themselves...

Regards,
John