John Smith wrote:

What is "time?" If I trapped it in a bottle--what would I be looking at?


Probably similar to a photon trapped in a bottle! 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -




"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
| Cecil Moore wrote:
|
| John Smith wrote:
|
| Yes, we have a precise measurement of that exact moment!!! (when the
| Earth began its' first revolution!!!)
|
|
| Precisely 4.5 billion years ago. :-) Strange as it may seem,
| there is evidence, gathered by comparing Bristlecone Pine
| rings to atomic dating methods, that a second today is
| shorter than a second was yesterday. Shortening the length
| of a second gives a whole new meaning to the Red Shift.
|
| I had the great fortune of attending a talk given by a paleontologist,
| in which he noted that microgrowth rings of fossil shells do indeed show
| that the day length has indeed shortened. Although he was careful not to
| draw any definitive conclusions - yet - it was apparent that due to the
| changes in the Earth's orbit over time were giving rise to changes in
| the length of the solar day, which in turn end up changing the length of
| all the units that we use to measure time.
|
| That time occurs is not all that arguable to me. Our measurements of it
| is a modifiable thing tho'.
|
| - Mike KB3EIA -
|
|
|
| - Mike KB3EIA

LOL!!! Naturally, my eyes are NOT as good as they used to be--probably
couldn't even enjoy viewing it with my glasses on...

Warmest regards,
John

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
| John Smith wrote:
|
| What is "time?" If I trapped it in a bottle--what would I be looking
at?
|
|
| Probably similar to a photon trapped in a bottle! 8^)
|
| - Mike KB3EIA -
|
|
|
|
| "Mike Coslo" wrote in message
| ...
| | Cecil Moore wrote:
| |
| | John Smith wrote:
| |
| | Yes, we have a precise measurement of that exact moment!!! (when
the
| | Earth began its' first revolution!!!)
| |
| |
| | Precisely 4.5 billion years ago. :-) Strange as it may seem,
| | there is evidence, gathered by comparing Bristlecone Pine
| | rings to atomic dating methods, that a second today is
| | shorter than a second was yesterday. Shortening the length
| | of a second gives a whole new meaning to the Red Shift.
| |
| | I had the great fortune of attending a talk given by a paleontologist,
| | in which he noted that microgrowth rings of fossil shells do indeed
show
| | that the day length has indeed shortened. Although he was careful not
to
| | draw any definitive conclusions - yet - it was apparent that due to
the
| | changes in the Earth's orbit over time were giving rise to changes in
| | the length of the solar day, which in turn end up changing the length
of
| | all the units that we use to measure time.
| |
| | That time occurs is not all that arguable to me. Our measurements of
it
| | is a modifiable thing tho'.
| |
| | - Mike KB3EIA -
| |
| |
| |
| | - Mike KB3EIA
|
|

Fred:

Quit trying to open up string theory, no one wants to go there!!! I have a
hard enough time with antennas!!! grin

Warmest regards,
John

"Fred W4JLE" wrote in message
...
|
| No, you would be listening to Jim Croche...
|
| How long is a piece of string.
|
| "John Smith" wrote in message
| ...
|
| What is "time?" If I trapped it in a bottle--what would I be looking
at?
|
|
|

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:15:16 -0700, "John Smith"
wrote:
.....snip

Next, there is no such thing as "time!" Time is simply a measurement of
movement! Indeed, our time is based on the rotation of the sun and
planets... (atomic time on the decay of a radioactive substance--but again,
physical change and movement!)

Dear John,

The essence of Life is Change.

The essence of Change is Time.

Without Time there is no Change - without Change there is no Life.

Without time, the existence of that entity or "Geist" that could
imagine a concept of "Time" could not exist.

Therefore, Time might well be the most fundamental of fundamentals.


Bob, W9DMK, Dahlgren, VA
Replace "nobody" with my callsign for e-mail
http://www.qsl.net/w9dmk
http://zaffora/f2o.org/W9DMK/W9dmk.html

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
Mike Coslo wrote:
At least in this existence, we have a finite appearance. So time is
very real. Here.

How would your life change if time didn't really
exist and your calendar and clock simply marked
changes in degrees of rotation of the earth?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


Can you define "changes" without reference to time?

Well, you make an excellent argument, and you are certainly correct that
"time" is a fairy tale that we can use to good advantage, and we are better
off for being "fools" and believing in the "myth"--it benefits us, and if we
don't look too hard, it appears "REAL"--but "time" is NOT real...
Change is movement--and movement is what "time" was constructed to record...
and the earths movement is all it ever recorded (well, heavenly bodies, pick
one, you can use "that" one too.)
Time in a bottle would be the earth rotating, or a bit of radioactive
loosing atomic particles, and a little man counting the number of them
lost...

Warmest regards,
John

"W9DMK (Robert Lay)" wrote in message
...
| On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:15:16 -0700, "John Smith"
| wrote:
| ....snip
|
| Next, there is no such thing as "time!" Time is simply a measurement of
| movement! Indeed, our time is based on the rotation of the sun and
| planets... (atomic time on the decay of a radioactive substance--but
again,
| physical change and movement!)
|
| Dear John,
|
| The essence of Life is Change.
|
| The essence of Change is Time.
|
| Without Time there is no Change - without Change there is no Life.
|
| Without time, the existence of that entity or "Geist" that could
| imagine a concept of "Time" could not exist.
|
| Therefore, Time might well be the most fundamental of fundamentals.
|
|
| Bob, W9DMK, Dahlgren, VA
| Replace "nobody" with my callsign for e-mail
| http://www.qsl.net/w9dmk
| http://zaffora/f2o.org/W9DMK/W9dmk.html
|

Cecil Moore wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote:

At least in this existence, we have a finite appearance. So time is
very real. Here.


How would your life change if time didn't really
exist and your calendar and clock simply marked
changes in degrees of rotation of the earth?

How would they exist? Unless the observer were incredibly dense, it
would be noted that the stars or position of the sun, or whatever they
based their degree system on - would return to something that looked a
lot like an earlier state.

It is difficult to imagine how mortal, intelligent creatures would not
develop a concept of time. The concept (reality?) seems ingrained in
almost everything we do, say, or think.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Wait, I just realized that may be in error, earlier, in another thread of
this group, Cecil mentioned a turtle!!! Perhaps Cecil will fill us in on
that turtle more--it sounded pretty special, and carried a whole world on
its back--if that were the case--I am sure "time" must finally resolve to
"Turtle Footsteps!" just-a-jesting-ya-Cecil grin

I "mock" "time", but hold it in high value.... other things in life are the
same for me...

Warmest regards,
John

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
| Well, you make an excellent argument, and you are certainly correct that
| "time" is a fairy tale that we can use to good advantage, and we are
better
| off for being "fools" and believing in the "myth"--it benefits us, and if
we
| don't look too hard, it appears "REAL"--but "time" is NOT real...
| Change is movement--and movement is what "time" was constructed to
record...
| and the earths movement is all it ever recorded (well, heavenly bodies,
pick
| one, you can use "that" one too.)
| Time in a bottle would be the earth rotating, or a bit of radioactive
| loosing atomic particles, and a little man counting the number of them
| lost...
|
| Warmest regards,
| John
|
| "W9DMK (Robert Lay)" wrote in message
| ...
|| On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:15:16 -0700, "John Smith"
|| wrote:
|| ....snip
||
|| Next, there is no such thing as "time!" Time is simply a measurement of
|| movement! Indeed, our time is based on the rotation of the sun and
|| planets... (atomic time on the decay of a radioactive substance--but
| again,
|| physical change and movement!)
||
|| Dear John,
||
|| The essence of Life is Change.
||
|| The essence of Change is Time.
||
|| Without Time there is no Change - without Change there is no Life.
||
|| Without time, the existence of that entity or "Geist" that could
|| imagine a concept of "Time" could not exist.
||
|| Therefore, Time might well be the most fundamental of fundamentals.
||
||
|| Bob, W9DMK, Dahlgren, VA
|| Replace "nobody" with my callsign for e-mail
|| http://www.qsl.net/w9dmk
|| http://zaffora/f2o.org/W9DMK/W9dmk.html
||
|
|

Cecil Moore wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote:

Cecil Moore wrote:

That's exactly what I am saying, Reg. Before man, the
universe got along just fine without the existence of
time. Why does the universe need time now that we are
here?


Something has to tell me when to get to work..........


The existence of time is not necessary for that function.
A mechanical device synchronized to the roatation of the
earth on its axis can do that. A piece of paper marking
4/1461 of the earth's orbit around the sun can keep track
of days of one year. Or just make a mark every time the
sun rises.

How are we going to know that 4/1461ths of a earth rotation around the
sun is a day?

I can't help but notice that to make your points you keep referring to
concepts of time... 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike:

Hmmm, after studying this problem a bit, I have to come the conclusion
"time" is a bit like "God", both take a leap of faith.... I am simply a
"Time Athiest!" innocent-look

Warmest regards,
John

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
| Cecil Moore wrote:
|
| Mike Coslo wrote:
|
| Cecil Moore wrote:
|
| That's exactly what I am saying, Reg. Before man, the
| universe got along just fine without the existence of
| time. Why does the universe need time now that we are
| here?
|
|
| Something has to tell me when to get to work..........
|
|
| The existence of time is not necessary for that function.
| A mechanical device synchronized to the roatation of the
| earth on its axis can do that. A piece of paper marking
| 4/1461 of the earth's orbit around the sun can keep track
| of days of one year. Or just make a mark every time the
| sun rises.
|
| How are we going to know that 4/1461ths of a earth rotation around the
| sun is a day?
|
| I can't help but notice that to make your points you keep referring to
| concepts of time... 8^)
|
| - Mike KB3EIA -
|