Reg Edwards wrote:

"Cecil Moore" asks -
Did time exist before man?

Entirely insignificant mankind could not possibly have had any
influence on the course of the Universe.

That's exactly what I am saying, Reg. Before man, the
universe got along just fine without the existence of
time. Why does the universe need time now that we are
here?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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That's exactly what I am saying, Reg. Before man, the
universe got along just fine without the existence of
time. Why does the universe need time now that we are
here?
--
73, Cecil

=============================

Well, Cec, my old pal, why didn't you say so in the first place? ;o)
---
Reg.

Well, I am surprised at you BOTH!!!
You know why!!!
Because it needs an observer(s) to exist properly!!!!
Crud, "God" would not be bothered with the likes of us--if this were NOT
true--that is proof in itself! grin

Warmest regards,
John

"Reg Edwards" wrote in message
...
|
| That's exactly what I am saying, Reg. Before man, the
| universe got along just fine without the existence of
| time. Why does the universe need time now that we are
| here?
| --
| 73, Cecil
|
| =============================
|
| Well, Cec, my old pal, why didn't you say so in the first place? ;o)
| ---
| Reg.
|
|

Cecil Moore wrote:

Reg Edwards wrote:

"Cecil Moore" asks -

Did time exist before man?


Entirely insignificant mankind could not possibly have had any
influence on the course of the Universe.


That's exactly what I am saying, Reg. Before man, the
universe got along just fine without the existence of
time. Why does the universe need time now that we are
here?

Something has to tell me when to get to work..........

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote:

Cecil Moore wrote:
That's exactly what I am saying, Reg. Before man, the
universe got along just fine without the existence of
time. Why does the universe need time now that we are
here?

Something has to tell me when to get to work..........

The existence of time is not necessary for that function.
A mechanical device synchronized to the roatation of the
earth on its axis can do that. A piece of paper marking
4/1461 of the earth's orbit around the sun can keep track
of days of one year. Or just make a mark every time the
sun rises.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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Cecil Moore wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote:

Cecil Moore wrote:

That's exactly what I am saying, Reg. Before man, the
universe got along just fine without the existence of
time. Why does the universe need time now that we are
here?


Something has to tell me when to get to work..........


The existence of time is not necessary for that function.
A mechanical device synchronized to the roatation of the
earth on its axis can do that. A piece of paper marking
4/1461 of the earth's orbit around the sun can keep track
of days of one year. Or just make a mark every time the
sun rises.

How are we going to know that 4/1461ths of a earth rotation around the
sun is a day?

I can't help but notice that to make your points you keep referring to
concepts of time... 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote:
I can't help but notice that to make your points you keep referring
to concepts of time... 8^)

It can't be helped because concepts of time are imbedded
into our language. I can't type a sentence without a verb
tense, past, present, future, ...

The concept of time didn't exist before a conceptual animal
came along yet all the non-conceptual animals got along just
fine with no concept of time. They responded to movement and
change. Time is our shorthand math model way of keeping track
of movement and change. Doesn't mean that time actually exists.

Same is true for our other models. Your positive 'X' axis
points approximately the opposite direction 12 hours later.
The 'Z' axis is up and sweeps the universe like a quasar as
the earth rotates on its axis.

Our sacred FIXED point at the x,y,z origin is moving relative
to the center of the earth, moving relative to the center of
the sun, moving relative to the center of our local
cluster, ... Quoting from "The Tenth Dimension": "There is
a Doppler shift that appears to indicate that our entire
galaxy is moving with a speed of about 640 kilometers per
second in a direction whose significance is obscure."
Given all that movement, I'm surprised I can find my way
back to my house.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

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Cecil Moore wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote:

I can't help but notice that to make your points you keep referring to
concepts of time... 8^)


It can't be helped because concepts of time are imbedded
into our language. I can't type a sentence without a verb
tense, past, present, future, ...

Correct!

The concept of time didn't exist before a conceptual animal
came along yet all the non-conceptual animals got along just
fine with no concept of time.

That is a more tentative "correct". I don't know that animals,
especially the higher ones, don't have a concept of time.

But let us assume that they don't.

Then we came along, and spent some time (oops) contemplating the
universe. Humans could see humans being born, growing, dying. The
weather became cold, and them warm again. The seasons were in general,
predictable. When agriculture came along, those who planted their seed
at the wrong season starved. Those who watched the sky noticed a
correlation between the position of the stars at night, and the position
of the sun during the day, and the weather. Humans, having a marked
talent for finding patterns, eventually found the repetitious
correlation. As we progressed, the concept of time became more and more
refined, but none of the earliest concepts were refuted.

If is is wrong, it is magnificently so.
They responded to movement and
change. Time is our shorthand math model way of keeping track
of movement and change. Doesn't mean that time actually exists.

Same is true for our other models. Your positive 'X' axis
points approximately the opposite direction 12 hours later.
The 'Z' axis is up and sweeps the universe like a quasar as
the earth rotates on its axis.

Our sacred FIXED point at the x,y,z origin is moving relative
to the center of the earth, moving relative to the center of
the sun, moving relative to the center of our local
cluster, ... Quoting from "The Tenth Dimension": "There is
a Doppler shift that appears to indicate that our entire
galaxy is moving with a speed of about 640 kilometers per
second in a direction whose significance is obscure."
Given all that movement, I'm surprised I can find my way
back to my house.

Maybe that is why I keep getting lost! ;^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike:

Hmmm, after studying this problem a bit, I have to come the conclusion
"time" is a bit like "God", both take a leap of faith.... I am simply a
"Time Athiest!" innocent-look

Warmest regards,
John

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
| Cecil Moore wrote:
|
| Mike Coslo wrote:
|
| Cecil Moore wrote:
|
| That's exactly what I am saying, Reg. Before man, the
| universe got along just fine without the existence of
| time. Why does the universe need time now that we are
| here?
|
|
| Something has to tell me when to get to work..........
|
|
| The existence of time is not necessary for that function.
| A mechanical device synchronized to the roatation of the
| earth on its axis can do that. A piece of paper marking
| 4/1461 of the earth's orbit around the sun can keep track
| of days of one year. Or just make a mark every time the
| sun rises.
|
| How are we going to know that 4/1461ths of a earth rotation around the
| sun is a day?
|
| I can't help but notice that to make your points you keep referring to
| concepts of time... 8^)
|
| - Mike KB3EIA -
|