Cecil Moore wrote:

Roger Conroy wrote:

Can you define "changes" without reference to time?


My dog cannot tell time but knows when to eat by the
changes in her feelings from not hungry to hungry. Time
is just an artifact of man's mental model of reality.
Before man emerged, living organisms got by on changes
alone with no reference to time.

I think bats existed before man. They seem to have pretty good
perception of time.

ac6xg

Jim Kelley wrote:
I think bats existed before man. They seem to have pretty good
perception of time.

Bats have very good perceptions of change and movement.
No perception of time required.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
Jim Kelley wrote:
I think bats existed before man. They seem to have pretty good
perception of time.

Bats have very good perceptions of change and movement.
No perception of time required.
--
73, Cecil

Ah, but they echo range. (Time.) Only way you ever nail one is with a tennis
racket. They "hear" the racket itself and miss the strings. This has GOT to
be one of the dumbest threads John Smith has ever started.

W4ZCB

W4ZCB

Harold E. Johnson wrote:

"Cecil Moore" wrote:
Bats have very good perceptions of change and movement.
No perception of time required.

Ah, but they echo range.

And they were doing so long before the concepts of time,
perception, echo, and range were invented. Those things
are part of the malleable human model of reality and
probably do not even exist in the bat's hard-wired
model of reality.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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Cecil Moore wrote:

Harold E. Johnson wrote:

"Cecil Moore" wrote:

Bats have very good perceptions of change and movement.
No perception of time required.


Ah, but they echo range.


And they were doing so long before the concepts of time,
perception, echo, and range were invented. Those things
are part of the malleable human model of reality and
probably do not even exist in the bat's hard-wired
model of reality.

Evidence that time is not just a concept of man.

73 de ac6xg

Jim Kelley wrote:
Evidence that time is not just a concept of man.

If time never existed, a bat would function exactly
the same. How is that evidence of anything.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

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Cecil Moore wrote:

If time never existed, a bat would function exactly
the same.

And with that piece of speculative fiction out of the way, we now return
to our regularly scheduled antenna discussions. (he said, optimistically)

ac6xg....out

Harold E. Johnson wrote:
This has GOT to
be one of the dumbest threads John Smith has ever started.

He may have started the thread but the idea is presented
quite well in "The End of Time - The Next Revolution in
Physics", by Julian Barbour, (c) 1999, Oxford University
Press, ISBN 0-19-511729-8 Dropping the concept of time
resolves all the apparent contradictions within quantum
physics, e.g. entanglement and effects preceding causes.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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Cecil Moore wrote:


Dropping the concept of time
resolves all the apparent contradictions within quantum
physics, e.g. entanglement and effects preceding causes.

So does Faith-Based Physics! ;^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

Cecil Moore wrote:

Harold E. Johnson wrote:

This has GOT to
be one of the dumbest threads John Smith has ever started.


He may have started the thread but the idea is presented
quite well in "The End of Time - The Next Revolution in
Physics", by Julian Barbour, (c) 1999, Oxford University
Press, ISBN 0-19-511729-8 Dropping the concept of time
resolves all the apparent contradictions within quantum
physics, e.g. entanglement and effects preceding causes.

Oy! Now there is a way to solve problems!

I have not read the book, so cannot comment with authority, but it
seems Julian is in a hurry to throw away time in order to solve problems
that can or will be solved without tossing time.

The amount of disciplines that "time" cuts across are many. The concept
has served us well for a long long time.

The "answering" of quantum effects issues by throwing out time will
probably create many new problems with just about everything else.

My curiosity is piqued. I'll have to read the book.

- Mike KB3EIA -