A very interesting analysis of this design can be found at:
http://www.w8ji.com/balun_single_core_41_analysis.htm

.... for those who have not yet seen it.

John

"Chris Trask" wrote in message
ink.net...
In recent days on the QRP-L mailing list, the following remarks
were
made by Tom Rauch, W8JI regarding the design of 4:1 current baluns:

"...it is impossible to build a 4:1 ratio current balun that
uses two 1:1 baluns on a single core."

and:

"It's well established any balun made up of series / parallel
transmission lines requires different voltages from the start
to finish of each transmission line. "

I have devised and modeled a 4:1 current balun using two 1:1 baluns on
a
single core, and have tested a fully functional prototype. The design
can
be built without any core, if so desired. The full disclosure of this
design with all theory, references, and test results can be obtained
from my
web page at:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~chris...k4to1Balun.pdf

The design proves beyond all reasonable doubt that the above
statements to
the contrary are, to put it mildly, gravely in error.

Chris

,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and
/ What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications
/ extinct stuff, anyhow? /
\ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY
_ |/ Principal Engineer
oo\ Sonoran Radio Research
(__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240
\ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240
\ \ / \
\ '" \ IEEE Senior Member #40274515
. ( ) \
'-| )__| :. \ Email:
| | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask
c__; c__; '-..'.__

Graphics by Loek Frederiks

Be sure to print it out as it changes almost daily. Very strange,
indeed.

--
Chris

,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and
/ What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications
/ extinct stuff, anyhow? /
\ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY
_ |/ Principal Engineer
oo\ Sonoran Radio Research
(__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240
\ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240
\ \ / \
\ '" \ IEEE Senior Member #40274515
. ( ) \
'-| )__| :. \ Email:
| | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask
c__; c__; '-..'.__

Graphics by Loek Frederiks

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
A very interesting analysis of this design can be found at:
http://www.w8ji.com/balun_single_core_41_analysis.htm

... for those who have not yet seen it.

John

"Chris Trask" wrote in message
ink.net...
In recent days on the QRP-L mailing list, the following remarks
were
made by Tom Rauch, W8JI regarding the design of 4:1 current baluns:

"...it is impossible to build a 4:1 ratio current balun that
uses two 1:1 baluns on a single core."

and:

"It's well established any balun made up of series / parallel
transmission lines requires different voltages from the start
to finish of each transmission line. "

I have devised and modeled a 4:1 current balun using two 1:1 baluns on
a
single core, and have tested a fully functional prototype. The design
can
be built without any core, if so desired. The full disclosure of this
design with all theory, references, and test results can be obtained
from my
web page at:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~chris...k4to1Balun.pdf

The design proves beyond all reasonable doubt that the above
statements to
the contrary are, to put it mildly, gravely in error.

Chris

,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and
/ What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications
/ extinct stuff, anyhow? /
\ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY
_ |/ Principal Engineer
oo\ Sonoran Radio Research
(__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240
\ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240
\ \ / \
\ '" \ IEEE Senior Member #40274515
. ( ) \
'-| )__| :. \ Email:
| | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask
c__; c__; '-..'.__

Graphics by Loek Frederiks

Chris:

You do not agree with any of his analysis?

You do not think this is more of an isolation transformer than a balun?
If not, how do you claim a "transmission line" quality/effect to it?

And, you did notice an insertion loss from this "device", didn't you?

John

"Chris Trask" wrote in message
ink.net...
Be sure to print it out as it changes almost daily. Very strange,
indeed.

--
Chris

,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and
/ What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications
/ extinct stuff, anyhow? /
\ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY
_ |/ Principal Engineer
oo\ Sonoran Radio Research
(__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240
\ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240
\ \ / \
\ '" \ IEEE Senior Member #40274515
. ( ) \
'-| )__| :. \ Email:
| | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask
c__; c__; '-..'.__

Graphics by Loek Frederiks

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
A very interesting analysis of this design can be found at:
http://www.w8ji.com/balun_single_core_41_analysis.htm

... for those who have not yet seen it.

John

"Chris Trask" wrote in message
ink.net...
In recent days on the QRP-L mailing list, the following remarks
were
made by Tom Rauch, W8JI regarding the design of 4:1 current baluns:

"...it is impossible to build a 4:1 ratio current balun that
uses two 1:1 baluns on a single core."

and:

"It's well established any balun made up of series / parallel
transmission lines requires different voltages from the start
to finish of each transmission line. "

I have devised and modeled a 4:1 current balun using two 1:1 baluns
on
a
single core, and have tested a fully functional prototype. The
design
can
be built without any core, if so desired. The full disclosure of
this
design with all theory, references, and test results can be
obtained
from my
web page at:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~chris...k4to1Balun.pdf

The design proves beyond all reasonable doubt that the above
statements to
the contrary are, to put it mildly, gravely in error.

Chris

,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and
/ What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications
/ extinct stuff, anyhow? /
\ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY
_ |/ Principal Engineer
oo\ Sonoran Radio Research
(__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240
\ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240
\ \ / \
\ '" \ IEEE Senior Member #40274515
. ( ) \
'-| )__| :. \ Email:
| | | | \ '.
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask
c__; c__; '-..'.__

Graphics by Loek Frederiks

Tom is absolutely desparate to prove to the world that you cannot under
any circumstances make a 4:1 current balun on a single core. So, he tests
the single core Guanella balun with the usual test for a current balun
(short the outputs to gound one at a time and see if the input return loss
changes) knowing fully well that the Guanella 4:1 current balun on a single
core will only work with floating loads.

He is now equally desparate to prove that since nobody but he
understands transmission line transformers it is impossible for anyone else
to understand or apply them. He also fails completely in understanding that
the ferrite used in transmission line transformers is to improve the low
frequency end by making the transmission line appear longer.

He's truly amazing, and he is mad as hell. He claims that it is
absolutely impossible to make a 4:1 current balun on a single core with a
pair of 1:1 transformers (of any kind whatsoever), while the Guanelle 4:1
current balun has a pair of 1:1 transformers on a single core right in front
of him. He also makes numerous other outrageous claims that defy all manner
of electronics theory.

Here are some of his more memorable quotes along with the URLs for the
QRP-L archives so you can see that he is not taken out of context, contrary
to what he says:

"...it is impossible to build a 4:1 ratio current balun that
uses two 1:1 baluns on a single core."

which in the archives at:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/qrp...12/020884.html

This is a good one:

"It's well established any balun made up of series / parallel
transmission lines requires different voltages from the start
to finish of each transmission line. "

which in the archives at:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/qrp...21/021331.html

and the following:

"It is physically impossible to build a transmission line
current balun other than 1:1 on a single core when the
windings have mutual coupling through the core."

which is in the archives at:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/qrp...22/021442.html

as well as:

"It's well established any balun made up of series / parallel
transmission lines requires different voltages from the
start to finish of each transmission line. You can find it
in voltage maps of the balun."

which is the archives at:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/qrp...21/021331.html

and additionally:

"It is quite possible to build any reasonable ratio of
conventional transformer (as long as it is the square of
turns ratio) on a single core. It is quite impossible to
build a current balun of any ratio other than 1:1 using
multiple transmission line transformers on a single core
unless flux leakage between transmission lines is terrible."

which is in the archives at:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/qrp...22/021408.html

as well as:

"It impossible to build anything but a 1:1 ratio current
balun when multiple transmission line transformers are
placed on a single core. The voltage map shows that, as does
the basic electrical rule of current baluns that all
currents in all windings must sum to zero under all load
balance conditions."

which is in the archives at:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/qrp...22/021416.html

There is no room for ambiguity here. As you can see, he is making
unsubstantiated claims of "it is impossible" and "it is well established"
that have no basis in fact. The problem here is really that I solved the
problem of the single-core 4:1 current balun and he is mad as hell because
in his world such a thing cannot possibly exist. So, he makes up additional
new electronics theories to prove that everything you know is wrong.

Chris

,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and
/ What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications
/ extinct stuff, anyhow? /
\ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY
_ |/ Principal Engineer
oo\ Sonoran Radio Research
(__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240
\ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240
\ \ / \
\ '" \ IEEE Senior Member #40274515
. ( ) \
'-| )__| :. \ Email:
| | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask
c__; c__; '-..'.__

Graphics by Loek Frederiks

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Chris:

You do not agree with any of his analysis?

You do not think this is more of an isolation transformer than a balun?
If not, how do you claim a "transmission line" quality/effect to it?

And, you did notice an insertion loss from this "device", didn't you?

John

"Chris Trask" wrote in message
ink.net...
Be sure to print it out as it changes almost daily. Very strange,
indeed.

--
Chris

,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and
/ What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications
/ extinct stuff, anyhow? /
\ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY
_ |/ Principal Engineer
oo\ Sonoran Radio Research
(__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240
\ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240
\ \ / \
\ '" \ IEEE Senior Member #40274515
. ( ) \
'-| )__| :. \ Email:
| | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask
c__; c__; '-..'.__

Graphics by Loek Frederiks

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
A very interesting analysis of this design can be found at:
http://www.w8ji.com/balun_single_core_41_analysis.htm

... for those who have not yet seen it.

John

"Chris Trask" wrote in message
ink.net...
In recent days on the QRP-L mailing list, the following remarks
were
made by Tom Rauch, W8JI regarding the design of 4:1 current baluns:

"...it is impossible to build a 4:1 ratio current balun that
uses two 1:1 baluns on a single core."

and:

"It's well established any balun made up of series / parallel
transmission lines requires different voltages from the start
to finish of each transmission line. "

I have devised and modeled a 4:1 current balun using two 1:1 baluns
on
a
single core, and have tested a fully functional prototype. The
design
can
be built without any core, if so desired. The full disclosure of
this
design with all theory, references, and test results can be
obtained
from my
web page at:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~chris...k4to1Balun.pdf

The design proves beyond all reasonable doubt that the above
statements to
the contrary are, to put it mildly, gravely in error.

Chris

,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and
/ What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications
/ extinct stuff, anyhow? /
\ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY
_ |/ Principal Engineer
oo\ Sonoran Radio Research
(__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240
\ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240
\ \ / \
\ '" \ IEEE Senior Member #40274515
. ( ) \
'-| )__| :. \ Email:
| | | | \ '.
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask
c__; c__; '-..'.__

Graphics by Loek Frederiks

On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 05:01:07 GMT, "Chris Trask"
wrote:

He also fails completely in understanding that
the ferrite used in transmission line transformers is to improve the low
frequency end by making the transmission line appear longer.

Hi Chris,

Now, given that a "transmission line transformer," as distinct from a
conventional transformer built using transmission lines, does not
support flux in the ferrite; how is it that the ferrite makes the line
appear longer?

Second, if this were to occur (through the design of a "transmission
line transformer" that was a voltage BalUn); what is the advantage of
longer lines?

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Now, given that a "transmission line transformer," as distinct from a
conventional transformer built using transmission lines, does not
support flux in the ferrite; how is it that the ferrite makes the line
appear longer?


The ferrite makes the line look longer by way of it's permeability, but
that's obvious and I think I'm not understanding your question correctly.
Dye and Granberg cover that in their Motorola application notes as well as
in the section on TLTs in their book "Radio Frequency Transistors:
Principles and Practical Applications." They briefly mention in the book
that the coupling takes place in the magnetic material only at low
frequencies. This effectively makes the line(s)look longer as you are no
longer functioning as a TLT but instead as a flux-coupled transformer, and
the line length is now a function of the physical length of the conductors
and the permeability of the material. In practice a thumbnail approximation
is generally:

L' = L x sqrt(u)


Second, if this were to occur (through the design of a "transmission
line transformer" that was a voltage BalUn); what is the advantage of
longer lines?


It's a matter of what's practical. If you were to use very short lines
along with a high permeability material such as Fair-Rite 73, you may
encouter a region where the lines are too short to couple properly and the
magnetic material is well above the ferroresonance frequency. And even when
you do get into the flux-coupling môde, you still need to have sufficient
line in order to obtain decent coupling at lower frequencies. So, you have
to balance the two (line length and magnetic material) in order to obtain a
wideband transformer that has consistent performance over the desired
frequency range.

I hope I've covered everything here adequately.

Chris

,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and
/ What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications
/ extinct stuff, anyhow? /
\ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY
_ |/ Principal Engineer
oo\ Sonoran Radio Research
(__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240
\ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240
\ \ / \
\ '" \ IEEE Senior Member #40274515
. ( ) \
'-| )__| :. \ Email:
| | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask
c__; c__; '-..'.__

Graphics by Loek Frederiks

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 05:01:07 GMT, "Chris Trask"
wrote:

He also fails completely in understanding that
the ferrite used in transmission line transformers is to improve the low
frequency end by making the transmission line appear longer.

Hi Chris,

Now, given that a "transmission line transformer," as distinct from a
conventional transformer built using transmission lines, does not
support flux in the ferrite; how is it that the ferrite makes the line
appear longer?

Second, if this were to occur (through the design of a "transmission
line transformer" that was a voltage BalUn); what is the advantage of
longer lines?

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:05:18 GMT, "Chris Trask"
wrote:

how is it that the ferrite makes the line appear longer?
The ferrite makes the line look longer by way of it's permeability

Hi Chris,

Conventionally, this is not an asset of BalUns. In fact, employing
permeability risks saturation, and saturation risks catastrophic
failure.

The paragraphs that followed (not quoted here) relate to the operation
of a conventional transformer.

Second, if this were to occur (through the design of a "transmission
line transformer" that was a voltage BalUn); what is the advantage of
longer lines?
It's a matter of what's practical.

Practical? This does not prove an advantage, it is a non-sequitur.

If you were to use very short lines
along with a high permeability material such as Fair-Rite 73, you may
encouter a region where the lines are too short to couple properly and the
magnetic material is well above the ferroresonance frequency. And even when
you do get into the flux-coupling môde, you still need to have sufficient
line in order to obtain decent coupling at lower frequencies. So, you have
to balance the two (line length and magnetic material) in order to obtain a
wideband transformer that has consistent performance over the desired
frequency range.

Most of this presumes a conventional transformer design. Your data
supports the results encountered from a conventional transformer
design. The risks of using a conventional transformer design are
legion. I see nothing that suggests this novel design is superior to
a Transmission Line Transformer (AKA Current BalUn).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Chris:

Well, your design certainly started me thinking. So, I began winding...
on a single core--of course...

I am NOT claiming this is unique, but it works better than the design
you presented, at least, ON my sw receiver...

.... take a look at it he
http://blake.prohosting.com/mailguy2/balun2.JPG

Warmest regards,
John


"Chris Trask" wrote in message
link.net...
Tom is absolutely desparate to prove to the world that you cannot
under
any circumstances make a 4:1 current balun on a single core. So, he
tests
the single core Guanella balun with the usual test for a current balun
(short the outputs to gound one at a time and see if the input return
loss
changes) knowing fully well that the Guanella 4:1 current balun on a
single
core will only work with floating loads.

He is now equally desparate to prove that since nobody but he
understands transmission line transformers it is impossible for anyone
else
to understand or apply them. He also fails completely in
understanding that
the ferrite used in transmission line transformers is to improve the
low
frequency end by making the transmission line appear longer.

He's truly amazing, and he is mad as hell. He claims that it is
absolutely impossible to make a 4:1 current balun on a single core
with a
pair of 1:1 transformers (of any kind whatsoever), while the Guanelle
4:1
current balun has a pair of 1:1 transformers on a single core right in
front
of him. He also makes numerous other outrageous claims that defy all
manner
of electronics theory.

Here are some of his more memorable quotes along with the URLs for
the
QRP-L archives so you can see that he is not taken out of context,
contrary
to what he says:

"...it is impossible to build a 4:1 ratio current balun that
uses two 1:1 baluns on a single core."

which in the archives at:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/qrp...12/020884.html

This is a good one:

"It's well established any balun made up of series / parallel
transmission lines requires different voltages from the start
to finish of each transmission line. "

which in the archives at:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/qrp...21/021331.html

and the following:

"It is physically impossible to build a transmission line
current balun other than 1:1 on a single core when the
windings have mutual coupling through the core."

which is in the archives at:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/qrp...22/021442.html

as well as:

"It's well established any balun made up of series / parallel
transmission lines requires different voltages from the
start to finish of each transmission line. You can find it
in voltage maps of the balun."

which is the archives at:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/qrp...21/021331.html

and additionally:

"It is quite possible to build any reasonable ratio of
conventional transformer (as long as it is the square of
turns ratio) on a single core. It is quite impossible to
build a current balun of any ratio other than 1:1 using
multiple transmission line transformers on a single core
unless flux leakage between transmission lines is terrible."

which is in the archives at:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/qrp...22/021408.html

as well as:

"It impossible to build anything but a 1:1 ratio current
balun when multiple transmission line transformers are
placed on a single core. The voltage map shows that, as does
the basic electrical rule of current baluns that all
currents in all windings must sum to zero under all load
balance conditions."

which is in the archives at:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/qrp...22/021416.html

There is no room for ambiguity here. As you can see, he is making
unsubstantiated claims of "it is impossible" and "it is well
established"
that have no basis in fact. The problem here is really that I solved
the
problem of the single-core 4:1 current balun and he is mad as hell
because
in his world such a thing cannot possibly exist. So, he makes up
additional
new electronics theories to prove that everything you know is wrong.

Chris

,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and
/ What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications
/ extinct stuff, anyhow? /
\ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY
_ |/ Principal Engineer
oo\ Sonoran Radio Research
(__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240
\ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240
\ \ / \
\ '" \ IEEE Senior Member #40274515
. ( ) \
'-| )__| :. \ Email:
| | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask
c__; c__; '-..'.__

Graphics by Loek Frederiks

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Chris:

You do not agree with any of his analysis?

You do not think this is more of an isolation transformer than a
balun?
If not, how do you claim a "transmission line" quality/effect to it?

And, you did notice an insertion loss from this "device", didn't you?

John

"Chris Trask" wrote in message
ink.net...
Be sure to print it out as it changes almost daily. Very
strange,
indeed.

--
Chris

,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and
/ What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications
/ extinct stuff, anyhow? /
\ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY
_ |/ Principal Engineer
oo\ Sonoran Radio Research
(__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240
\ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240
\ \ / \
\ '" \ IEEE Senior Member #40274515
. ( ) \
'-| )__| :. \ Email:
| | | | \ '.
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask
c__; c__; '-..'.__

Graphics by Loek Frederiks

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
A very interesting analysis of this design can be found at:
http://www.w8ji.com/balun_single_core_41_analysis.htm

... for those who have not yet seen it.

John

"Chris Trask" wrote in message
ink.net...
In recent days on the QRP-L mailing list, the following
remarks
were
made by Tom Rauch, W8JI regarding the design of 4:1 current
baluns:

"...it is impossible to build a 4:1 ratio current balun that
uses two 1:1 baluns on a single core."

and:

"It's well established any balun made up of series / parallel
transmission lines requires different voltages from the start
to finish of each transmission line. "

I have devised and modeled a 4:1 current balun using two 1:1
baluns
on
a
single core, and have tested a fully functional prototype. The
design
can
be built without any core, if so desired. The full disclosure
of
this
design with all theory, references, and test results can be
obtained
from my
web page at:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~chris...k4to1Balun.pdf

The design proves beyond all reasonable doubt that the above
statements to
the contrary are, to put it mildly, gravely in error.

Chris

,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and
/ What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF
Communications
/ extinct stuff, anyhow? /
\ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY
_ |/ Principal Engineer
oo\ Sonoran Radio Research
(__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240
\ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240
\ \ / \
\ '" \ IEEE Senior Member #40274515
. ( ) \
'-| )__| :. \ Email:
| | | | \ '.
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask
c__; c__; '-..'.__

Graphics by Loek Frederiks

John,
Yes, that's very nice. A pair of trifilar windings on a single core.
That's a variation of a 1:1 transmission line balun that I found in a
textbook. I've put the schematic and photo in a PDF file on my web page at:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~chris...M1to1Balun.PDF

I'm qite certain that the two dots connecting the outer conductors to the
shield box are in error as in the photo the outer insulating jacket is not
broken. And those connections do not make sense, at least not immediately,
as the voltages and currents at that point are dissimilar. Also, there
should only be the one ground connection at the near end of the second
cable.

Seems to me that you could use this approach to make a nice, inexpensive
and lightwieght balun with just two 4-foot pieces of coax. I would
certainly like someone to try that and let us know how well it works.

Chris

,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and
/ What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications
/ extinct stuff, anyhow? /
\ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY
_ |/ Principal Engineer
oo\ Sonoran Radio Research
(__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240
\ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240
\ \ / \
\ '" \ IEEE Senior Member #40274515
. ( ) \
'-| )__| :. \ Email:
| | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask
c__; c__; '-..'.__

Graphics by Loek Frederiks

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Chris:

Well, your design certainly started me thinking. So, I began winding...
on a single core--of course...

I am NOT claiming this is unique, but it works better than the design
you presented, at least, ON my sw receiver...

... take a look at it he
http://blake.prohosting.com/mailguy2/balun2.JPG

Warmest regards,
John


"Chris Trask" wrote in message
link.net...
Tom is absolutely desparate to prove to the world that you cannot
under
any circumstances make a 4:1 current balun on a single core. So, he
tests
the single core Guanella balun with the usual test for a current balun
(short the outputs to gound one at a time and see if the input return
loss
changes) knowing fully well that the Guanella 4:1 current balun on a
single
core will only work with floating loads.

He is now equally desparate to prove that since nobody but he
understands transmission line transformers it is impossible for anyone
else
to understand or apply them. He also fails completely in
understanding that
the ferrite used in transmission line transformers is to improve the
low
frequency end by making the transmission line appear longer.

He's truly amazing, and he is mad as hell. He claims that it is
absolutely impossible to make a 4:1 current balun on a single core
with a
pair of 1:1 transformers (of any kind whatsoever), while the Guanelle
4:1
current balun has a pair of 1:1 transformers on a single core right in
front
of him. He also makes numerous other outrageous claims that defy all
manner
of electronics theory.

Here are some of his more memorable quotes along with the URLs for
the
QRP-L archives so you can see that he is not taken out of context,
contrary
to what he says:

"...it is impossible to build a 4:1 ratio current balun that
uses two 1:1 baluns on a single core."

which in the archives at:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/qrp...12/020884.html

This is a good one:

"It's well established any balun made up of series / parallel
transmission lines requires different voltages from the start
to finish of each transmission line. "

which in the archives at:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/qrp...21/021331.html

and the following:

"It is physically impossible to build a transmission line
current balun other than 1:1 on a single core when the
windings have mutual coupling through the core."

which is in the archives at:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/qrp...22/021442.html

as well as:

"It's well established any balun made up of series / parallel
transmission lines requires different voltages from the
start to finish of each transmission line. You can find it
in voltage maps of the balun."

which is the archives at:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/qrp...21/021331.html

and additionally:

"It is quite possible to build any reasonable ratio of
conventional transformer (as long as it is the square of
turns ratio) on a single core. It is quite impossible to
build a current balun of any ratio other than 1:1 using
multiple transmission line transformers on a single core
unless flux leakage between transmission lines is terrible."

which is in the archives at:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/qrp...22/021408.html

as well as:

"It impossible to build anything but a 1:1 ratio current
balun when multiple transmission line transformers are
placed on a single core. The voltage map shows that, as does
the basic electrical rule of current baluns that all
currents in all windings must sum to zero under all load
balance conditions."

which is in the archives at:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/qrp...22/021416.html

There is no room for ambiguity here. As you can see, he is making
unsubstantiated claims of "it is impossible" and "it is well
established"
that have no basis in fact. The problem here is really that I solved
the
problem of the single-core 4:1 current balun and he is mad as hell
because
in his world such a thing cannot possibly exist. So, he makes up
additional
new electronics theories to prove that everything you know is wrong.

Chris

,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and
/ What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications
/ extinct stuff, anyhow? /
\ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY
_ |/ Principal Engineer
oo\ Sonoran Radio Research
(__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240
\ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240
\ \ / \
\ '" \ IEEE Senior Member #40274515
. ( ) \
'-| )__| :. \ Email:
| | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask
c__; c__; '-..'.__

Graphics by Loek Frederiks

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Chris:

You do not agree with any of his analysis?

You do not think this is more of an isolation transformer than a
balun?
If not, how do you claim a "transmission line" quality/effect to it?

And, you did notice an insertion loss from this "device", didn't you?

John

"Chris Trask" wrote in message
ink.net...
Be sure to print it out as it changes almost daily. Very
strange,
indeed.

--
Chris

,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and
/ What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications
/ extinct stuff, anyhow? /
\ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY
_ |/ Principal Engineer
oo\ Sonoran Radio Research
(__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240
\ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240
\ \ / \
\ '" \ IEEE Senior Member #40274515
. ( ) \
'-| )__| :. \ Email:
| | | | \ '.
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask
c__; c__; '-..'.__

Graphics by Loek Frederiks

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
A very interesting analysis of this design can be found at:
http://www.w8ji.com/balun_single_core_41_analysis.htm

... for those who have not yet seen it.

John

"Chris Trask" wrote in message
ink.net...
In recent days on the QRP-L mailing list, the following
remarks
were
made by Tom Rauch, W8JI regarding the design of 4:1 current
baluns:

"...it is impossible to build a 4:1 ratio current balun that
uses two 1:1 baluns on a single core."

and:

"It's well established any balun made up of series / parallel
transmission lines requires different voltages from the start
to finish of each transmission line. "

I have devised and modeled a 4:1 current balun using two 1:1
baluns
on
a
single core, and have tested a fully functional prototype. The
design
can
be built without any core, if so desired. The full disclosure
of
this
design with all theory, references, and test results can be
obtained
from my
web page at:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~chris...k4to1Balun.pdf

The design proves beyond all reasonable doubt that the above
statements to
the contrary are, to put it mildly, gravely in error.

Chris

,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and
/ What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF
Communications
/ extinct stuff, anyhow? /
\ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY
_ |/ Principal Engineer
oo\ Sonoran Radio Research
(__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240
\ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240
\ \ / \
\ '" \ IEEE Senior Member #40274515
. ( ) \
'-| )__| :. \ Email:
| | | | \ '.
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask
c__; c__; '-..'.__

Graphics by Loek Frederiks

Chris:

I see. It is interesting reading anyway, thanks.

Warmest regards,
John

"Chris Trask" wrote in message
link.net...
Tom is absolutely desparate to prove to the world that you cannot
under
any circumstances make a 4:1 current balun on a single core. So, he
tests
the single core Guanella balun with the usual test for a current balun
(short the outputs to gound one at a time and see if the input return
loss
changes) knowing fully well that the Guanella 4:1 current balun on a
single
core will only work with floating loads.

He is now equally desparate to prove that since nobody but he
understands transmission line transformers it is impossible for anyone
else
to understand or apply them. He also fails completely in
understanding that
the ferrite used in transmission line transformers is to improve the
low
frequency end by making the transmission line appear longer.

He's truly amazing, and he is mad as hell. He claims that it is
absolutely impossible to make a 4:1 current balun on a single core
with a
pair of 1:1 transformers (of any kind whatsoever), while the Guanelle
4:1
current balun has a pair of 1:1 transformers on a single core right in
front
of him. He also makes numerous other outrageous claims that defy all
manner
of electronics theory.

Here are some of his more memorable quotes along with the URLs for
the
QRP-L archives so you can see that he is not taken out of context,
contrary
to what he says:

"...it is impossible to build a 4:1 ratio current balun that
uses two 1:1 baluns on a single core."

which in the archives at:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/qrp...12/020884.html

This is a good one:

"It's well established any balun made up of series / parallel
transmission lines requires different voltages from the start
to finish of each transmission line. "

which in the archives at:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/qrp...21/021331.html

and the following:

"It is physically impossible to build a transmission line
current balun other than 1:1 on a single core when the
windings have mutual coupling through the core."

which is in the archives at:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/qrp...22/021442.html

as well as:

"It's well established any balun made up of series / parallel
transmission lines requires different voltages from the
start to finish of each transmission line. You can find it
in voltage maps of the balun."

which is the archives at:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/qrp...21/021331.html

and additionally:

"It is quite possible to build any reasonable ratio of
conventional transformer (as long as it is the square of
turns ratio) on a single core. It is quite impossible to
build a current balun of any ratio other than 1:1 using
multiple transmission line transformers on a single core
unless flux leakage between transmission lines is terrible."

which is in the archives at:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/qrp...22/021408.html

as well as:

"It impossible to build anything but a 1:1 ratio current
balun when multiple transmission line transformers are
placed on a single core. The voltage map shows that, as does
the basic electrical rule of current baluns that all
currents in all windings must sum to zero under all load
balance conditions."

which is in the archives at:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/qrp...22/021416.html

There is no room for ambiguity here. As you can see, he is making
unsubstantiated claims of "it is impossible" and "it is well
established"
that have no basis in fact. The problem here is really that I solved
the
problem of the single-core 4:1 current balun and he is mad as hell
because
in his world such a thing cannot possibly exist. So, he makes up
additional
new electronics theories to prove that everything you know is wrong.

Chris

,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and
/ What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications
/ extinct stuff, anyhow? /
\ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY
_ |/ Principal Engineer
oo\ Sonoran Radio Research
(__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240
\ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240
\ \ / \
\ '" \ IEEE Senior Member #40274515
. ( ) \
'-| )__| :. \ Email:
| | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask
c__; c__; '-..'.__

Graphics by Loek Frederiks

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Chris:

You do not agree with any of his analysis?

You do not think this is more of an isolation transformer than a
balun?
If not, how do you claim a "transmission line" quality/effect to it?

And, you did notice an insertion loss from this "device", didn't you?

John

"Chris Trask" wrote in message
ink.net...
Be sure to print it out as it changes almost daily. Very
strange,
indeed.

--
Chris

,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and
/ What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications
/ extinct stuff, anyhow? /
\ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY
_ |/ Principal Engineer
oo\ Sonoran Radio Research
(__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240
\ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240
\ \ / \
\ '" \ IEEE Senior Member #40274515
. ( ) \
'-| )__| :. \ Email:
| | | | \ '.
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask
c__; c__; '-..'.__

Graphics by Loek Frederiks

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
A very interesting analysis of this design can be found at:
http://www.w8ji.com/balun_single_core_41_analysis.htm

... for those who have not yet seen it.

John

"Chris Trask" wrote in message
ink.net...
In recent days on the QRP-L mailing list, the following
remarks
were
made by Tom Rauch, W8JI regarding the design of 4:1 current
baluns:

"...it is impossible to build a 4:1 ratio current balun that
uses two 1:1 baluns on a single core."

and:

"It's well established any balun made up of series / parallel
transmission lines requires different voltages from the start
to finish of each transmission line. "

I have devised and modeled a 4:1 current balun using two 1:1
baluns
on
a
single core, and have tested a fully functional prototype. The
design
can
be built without any core, if so desired. The full disclosure
of
this
design with all theory, references, and test results can be
obtained
from my
web page at:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~chris...k4to1Balun.pdf

The design proves beyond all reasonable doubt that the above
statements to
the contrary are, to put it mildly, gravely in error.

Chris

,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and
/ What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF
Communications
/ extinct stuff, anyhow? /
\ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY
_ |/ Principal Engineer
oo\ Sonoran Radio Research
(__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240
\ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240
\ \ / \
\ '" \ IEEE Senior Member #40274515
. ( ) \
'-| )__| :. \ Email:
| | | | \ '.
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask
c__; c__; '-..'.__

Graphics by Loek Frederiks